WHENCE COME KNOWLEDGE

[stoit]

Reason and instinct

 

Reason has been elevated to be the ultimate judge and jury of all that is and has been. And some would even stupidly go beyond this to claim that it can also be the decider to what can be.

 

But reason is found inferior of its own and not up to the task .Some of you may be better informed than I am I will invite you to come and defend reason or instinct or whatever other means of knowledge you prefer.

 

Reason is seems to be aided by the scientific method which I will try to explain. But that is because reason works from inside heading out and is thus therefore blind to the whole picture.

 

Sensation leads to perception which leads to conception which leads to knowledge which leads to understanding which leads to wise judgement. In all that we were just observers and from observation only your knowledge ,therefore understanding is limited by external conditions. Now add experimentation and your are creating other conditions thus getting more knowledge instead of waiting for it to come. We are still limited by our senses whose scope is not also very big. So we build machines e.g. telescopes ,microscopes ,thermometers etc .To increase the boundaries of our perceptions and the process continues and that is what we call the scientific method.

 

 

What is then reason ?

 

Reason is logic and logic is consistency and consistency is working with in the system.

 

Consistency is a means of knowledge for us because the more superior correspondence is unattainable in many if not most cases.

 

Science uses consistency. In fact I would go as far as saying science is noting but the search for consistency. So although scientists can go as far as to tell us that “yes I m sure the sun will rise tomorrow because we have estimated that it still has 6 billion more years before it completely exhausts its energy conversion” they can never guarantee that now can they?

However ,although it is true that almost all can be explained away by conditions e.g. water is liquid at specific conditions ,we need specific conditions to stay alive the list is endless why those conditions is I think still a mystery.

 

INTUITION

 

There is however another way to knowledge and that we call intuition. This in my opinion is superior to reason and the scientific method because it is instantaneous and more accurate. But it is also not readily available and cannot be possessed unlike reason and the scientific method which is possessed and stored in our memories for use at will anytime anywhere.

 

Instinct comes to us and does not normally respond to our calls. We don’t own it but rather it owns us when it comes. Of course some of the champions of instinct ,like the religious groups claim that it is in fact the self I.e. the ego that is the problem that is between us and bliss or heaven and instantaneous knowledge.

 

The origins of intuitive knowledge is again a matter for discussion but some examples are ..

 

Hatchlings of turtles race into the ocean for safety because otherwise they would have been devoured by predators but how do they know that the ocean means safety and that there is danger anyway?

 

I read in a book that an elephant stopped and would not cross a bridge even after all the rest have done so. I was to be discovered that the bridge was in fact weak and would not have supported its weight.

 

 

In a small village Somalia during the war. A man was a woken by a spirit one night and told ,not in words, to leave. He thought it to be a dream and went back to sleep again . As soon as he closed his eyes the spirit came again warned him to take his family and go as in NOW. The man wasn’t sure still what he was experiencing and was soon lulling back to sleep . The spirit I think angry now asked him to leave and that there was evil horrible things were going to happen.

 

The man shot up and went to all his neighbours waking them up and asking them to leave a.s.a.p . They all dismissed him and went back to sleep . He tried his best but was not successful, so he hurried to pull down his hut and went away.

 

The next day the man went to town and everybody was sad . They were all afraid and at the same time mourning the death of an entire village except for one child that somehow got away and lived to tell the story.

 

At that night when the spirits were telling this one family to leave there were a group of militia hiding not far from the village waiting for dawn to strike. There was no way any of them could have known this. This wasn’t in Mogadishu . This happened I was told in punt land and weather this story is true or not I cannot confirm.

 

However we get our knowledge there is no doubt to the importance of knowledge to our lives. Knowledge can mean the difference between life and death ,between wealth and poverty ,between health and disease ,between joy and sorrow ,happiness and misery and finally between jannah and naar.

 

I am also aware that the means to knowledge do not justify the ends for religion is mostly about regulation of the means. The means are the ends as well.

[Khayr]

Saxib,

 

In a paragraph, could you summarize for us the point that you are trying to make.

 

JZK

[stoit]

Thanks saxiib khayr for your reply.

 

 

To use what was already given to you is to appreciate it and not to use it is not only wrong because it is ungrateful to the GIVER but also leads to alot of injustices of which those who advocate, propagate and even enforce such states of minds that will incapacitate man and domesticate him can neither come to thier aid nor take responsibility for the outcomes.

[stoit]

Originally posted by Khayr:

Saxib,

 

In a paragraph, could you summarize for us the point that you are trying to make.

 

JZK

Maybe it is truth that we ought to discuss since all claims must rest on some truths and truth is then the arbiter of all claims?

[Positive]

Reason and intuition are mental faculties which man uses as vehicles. While reason belongs to our Ego or that part which we know as our self in our awaked state instinct is part of our unconscious state and has access to the collective unconsciousness of all living beings.

 

In other words reason draws its resources ONLY from the memory bank of the person; memories of the persons experiences from childhood. It is this information in the mind it computes and makes “logical” decisions from it. Conversely intuition is centered by higher faculty which is the unconscious mind which its self is centered by even higher centre of Self. The information this center may suggest to the first center can be transpersonal and universal in nature; and therefore may seem illogic from the stand point of prior experiences.

 

We can postulate that in the future highly evolved human beings will depend for decision makings more on their higher intuitive abilities. We have to be content now though with our reasoning capabilities because we are still in a childhood stage in human evolution.

 

With exception of may be a handful we are all prisoners of our reasoning faculty and what is tangible to our sensory organs. But eventually we will all awaken to the fact that the tangible is the tip of ice-berg!

 

The Awakener2

[stoit]

Is it not sad though positive that most of the population of the world are of a different kind of slaves. I mean ,the world is powered by money and those that make the most get to call all the shots.

 

So although we ought to seek to be beings of superior consciousness we cant get there in my opinion without first learning to fully utilize our minds (conscious minds). If we fail to do this we are like those that have eyes but cant see the potholes along their way because they are looking too far ahead and will thus always fall.

[stoit]

I have to add friend that i do understand and share with you that we are still children be we spoiled ones and that we will grow up if we dont destroy ourselves first and the world along with ourselves.

 

But how is this growth going to come about? See i believe that religious teachings of responsibility and mutual respect, of love and friendship and of tolerance and patience are a formular for our growth to maturity in a just and orderly way but then again religions are also shrouded in mystery and contradictions which repel most people especially when contrasted with the tangible results achieved by the will to survive ie by playing by the rules of survival for the fittest which lead to competition rather than cooperation as the only means to ends.

 

Unless the path to the HEREAFTER can also secure the HERE both those that wish for only here and those that wish for only hereafter will fail because we must first go through the here in order to get to the hereafter.

[Positive]

A&A

 

We need always to add to the equation that nothing happens by chance. Everything that has happened to us or is happening now has divine goals to achieve. We the human beings at this side of existence are not independent from the macrocosmic DIVINE PLAN of God but are in fact vehicles for His will in whatever capacity He has ordained for us.

 

An attitude that God is our supreme ruler does not only give us a peace of mind but it also gives meaning to our lives. Because we realize that it is His loving care that gives us sustenance both spiritually and materially. Consequently we trust to His effect and gladly accept whatever comes to our lives.

 

As to our individual role as human beings we need to assert ourselves by using all the faculties that God has endowed in us. Our self assertion ought be aimed, among other things, to act in whatever manner which will bring love and kindness into our environment. That is what we have to practice dailly; to continuously train ourselves to do good deeds.

 

We are limiting our capabilities when we are using only our conscious faculties. We best contribute to Life when we become awakened to the fact that we are more than body and Mind. That is when we realize that each and everyone of us is a deathless entity or Soul as it classically called.

 

As long as we are not awakened to our higher Self reasoning and logic may be useful tools to us. But we become more powerful when we act from the Soul perspective. Only from that lofty position can we bring all our powers into play.

 

The Awakener2

[underdog]

A&A,

Intuition is a powerful thing and very intangible or quantifiable. It is one of the most important tools Allah (SWT) has given us. The ability to recognize right from wrong, or feel compassion or hate or fear even though no visible causes are present is sort of an Internal Alarm clock that should guide you.

 

However,

Logic and reasoning too are abilities Allah (SWT) has given us. Intuition works in flashes and independent of your control. However we cannot ignore the logic that we have to use to implement and action to the what needs to done. Intuition may have woken up that guy in the Village but Logic and reasoning made him try to save his neighbors.

 

There's a 3rd element that just as important, and is INTENT. The truth behind everything you feel or do. Intent may not be visible, but it eventually shows in who you are and what you do. It easily overrides Intuition and hijacks logic.

[stoit]

Brothers i agree with both of you.

 

Anybody in here a fun of bbc radio 4 ? I am anyway and they have some very good and informative programmes. They had one on intuition not too long ago and i got the idea that intuition is really from knowledge accumulated through experience.

 

What do you think ?

 

I think that this idea is probably not right since it wont explain some of the examples such as the elephant and the turtles which could have had no prior experiences on which to base their new knowledge.

[Positive]

A&A

 

This BBC 4 pragram probably gives its explanation from a scientific perspective. Although there is nothing wrong with that still, as you yourself alluded to, it does not give the whole answer. It does not for example explain HOW intuition comes into being in the first place or what causes it. Science is in fact the study of the effects of creation and therefore God or anything which shows no observable effects for scientific study are discounted. For science what is not observable and quantifiable does not exist. A naive proposition if I may say.

 

 

The correct perspective, as I see it, is that the individual is not in control of his intuitive center. It is rather God Who centers all the actions of His creation through, among others, this said center. Consequently what God wants is carried out by His creation without, many times, conscious awareness of what an action aims to achieve.

 

This explains why God is called the Supreme Ruler. It simply means that creation is the instrument of God and carries out what He plans or decrees through His Supreme WILL. Nothing happens by accident or by chance.

 

Therefore while reason is our manual pilot intuition is the auto-pilot. This sharing of functions though puts the auto-pilot in a higher position of responsibility but it delegates repetitive and reflex actions for the manual pilot.

 

The Awakener2