Somalinimo, maxaad tahay?

[Blessed]

This has been playing on my mind for sometime now, I feel that there is an unnoticed confusion surrounding this concept.

 

Is Somalinimo merely Somaliweyn [the unity of the former Somali Republic] or a wider concept similar to the Pan-Arab, Pan African movement?

 

Some of you might have noticed me asking a few nomads in the politics section and I’ve only got what you get in that jungle [which is why this thread is here].

 

I’ve just googled the word to see if there was an agreed upon version. Bah. I know I am rather ambitious for our Somalis at times, but I wasn’t prepared for what was thrown at me; links to other Somali sites where this very concept is largely getting tossed about as either nonexistent or a social construct that is played up in qabiil politics. Hmmmmm! I’m not entirely sure.

 

What does Somalinimo mean to you? Can Somalinimo exist if politics wasn’t involved, how?

 

How does the clan system relate to Somalinimo?

 

 

... and Islam?

 

I'm not looking for a discussion on the Somali unity in the political sense alone, although I'd welcome it if it was used to backup your ideas about Somalinimo. If you really want to get into the Somaliweyn debate, I recommend the topic next door by Warmoog.

 

I only want to get at the very core of the concept of Somalinimo and see if we're at all talking about the something when this word is used in dialogue.

 

Thanks.

[rudy-Diiriye]

somalinimo, is something that been forgotten for a while now. Actually, this concept involved from the badiya or reer miyi nomads.

 

and basically, the rule was somalinimo which folks depended on famines, cadow invasion and inter clan conflicts. so its was system dadko ayee ku daqmigreen.

 

there were no courts or legal systems so in a way

dagan somalinimo was their law of the land. i am sure that u might find some written stuff in libararies. go and check ucla library online. i found one there about 4 yrs ago.

 

oh by the ucla has a large somali books and written. ucla use to sponsor students from lafoole university before the civil war.

[Jacaylbaro]

As you've already said SOMALINIMO is similar to Pan Africanism, Pan Arabism and so on. It means you have to think and work for your Somali people.

 

It seems most of us use the world SOOMAALINIMO as meaning the unity of Somalia forgetting that Djibouti is included when we're talking about Soomaalinimo.

[Baashi]

Somalinimo maxay tahay is the question. And how does it relate to politics is another offshoot question. Waan gartay. Good topic btw.

 

My take of Somalinimo is simple and straightforward. Marwo Aaminaay Somalinimo encompasses several concepts chief among them fraternity, identity (both cultural and political), and nationality as well.

 

Take fraternity for instance ok. Somalis, the nation or the ethnic group, are said to be composed of several (about five) clan families (and they see themselves that way too, clans from noble origin) associated by ties of brotherhood (inter marriage) enforced by common faith in Islam.

 

That is how the term was understood by majority of Somalis prior the current civil war (civil war that went through different stages – '78 to current). Oral literature from Qarshe’s Somaliyeey Toosooy to Maryan Musrsal’s Soomaali u Diida Ceeb is a testimony to that fact.

 

Waa tahay. Next -- identity. Cultural identity basically refers to (at least to my understanding) how social groups see/define themselves. Majority of the people feel themselves as being belonging to nation or ethnic group (for instance white first, then American, then Jew). Somalinimo refers to being part of Somali nation. I’m positive that all Somalis regardless where he or she is born or bred identify him/herself with other Somalis through family ties, language, nationality, religion, and what not.

 

Same is true with identity in political sense. Belonging to a group means one is a member of social and dynamic ethnically defined group of people. Groups have interests. Good or bad, one’s destiny, aspirations, is tied to the group he/she is part of. Qallanjo ila soco.

 

This explains why some1 who lives and calls London home might want to advance the interest of his group. Hadaan la sarifin oo qofku qadiyadiisu meel sare gaarsiisan tahay then one, the active ones who care, might advocate and advance, forcefully, the interest of say his/her nation, for the sake of common good.

 

Naturally, by logical extension, being a Somali myself, I get saddened when I see someone who's oppressed or denied his/her rights just because he/she is a Somali (my Somalinimo kicks in here). In this context Somalinimo shares elements of nationalistic streak with other oppressed nations (Kurds, Arabs, Jews, or Blacks in the states, for instance).

 

Nationality therefore is an integral part of identity politics. It is often said that Somalis are nation without unified state. Now, I for one don’t let my schooling interfere with my education to paraphrase Twain for I don't let the concept of nation-state define which oppressed ethnic group should or should not get the right to decide what its future would be.

 

Regardless of how current world order, or for that matter the old world order, operates, one can't help but fully concur with the Somali founding father’s understanding that, by virtue of Somalinimo (with all its positive connotations), the borders of future Somali state ought to be congruent to the border of the nation.

 

Now I understand that the current world order, built on the previous world order in which victorious allies struck a deal between them as to how they intend to share the spoils of then crumpling imperial powers, defines nation-state in a way that’s inline of their interests. Because of energy security or domestic (Christian right) interest group's considerations, the current world order allows a room to wiggle - bend the UN rules – so East Timor can be freed from an oppressive state in the name of self-determination but not Palestine, Chechnya, or Ogadnia. Pretty convenient soo ma aha.

 

Waxay ahaan lahaydba today Somalis are fighting for a different kind of Somalinimo -- a one that’s three notches below of nationalism – negative tolnimo (ahem copyright is in place).

 

Haye hadde.

 

[ August 28, 2007, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Baashi ]

[Legend of Zu]

^^^I think you have prolly summed it up but perhaps I can even summarise it to just Somali as in ethnicity or nationality. whereby you have culture and religion coming under ethnicity, the political aspects of it can be attributed to its definition within nationalistic context.

 

It would be good to see how the definition of Somaliweyn varies amongst those who were born and bred in Somalia to those who were born overseas.

 

Zenobia Somali as in terms of Pan Somali is defined within the context of ethnicity, whilst the unity of the former Somali Republic Somaliesque is on the path of nationalistic definition.

 

The confusion is a result of lack of differentiation between the ethnic Somali and the Somali citizen. well who can blame them since we have been in the past a society where ethnicaly dominated by Somalis.

 

Baashe, Qarshe and Magool's Somali is the nationalistic definition.

 

Cheers

[Coloow]

Ma waxay ahayd beri samaadkii mise maanta? Waayihii hore soomalinimo waxaay ahayd mid ku saleeysan dadka iyo dhulka aay soomaliddu degto; astaan ku qotonta luqada, diinta iyo dhaqanka.

 

Laakin soomalinimada maanta jirto waa mid qabyaalad (baahida ayaakeentay), awood iyo dawarsi ku xiran.

 

Waxaa la yaableh in dadka dilay soomalinimo markii carqaladi ku timaado ayaa la soo baxaan buuga soomalinimo.

 

Anigu waxaan ahaa nin aaminsanaan jirey soomalinimo laakin markii aan arkay wax ummadda soomaliyeed aay maanta mareeyso (gaar ahaan kuwa degan xamar) waxaa ii caadatay in aaysan jirin wax la yiraahdo soomalinimo- soomaliweyn iskaba daa!

 

Dad badan oo aan saaxibo ahayn oo ku digrin jirey soomaliweyn iyo soomalinimo ayaa isbedeley. Xataa mashaaiqda waa kuwo wata kitaabka qabyaalada.

 

Bal eega dawlad ku sheega (TFG). Waxaa ka buuxa dadkii diley soomalinimo. !

[xiinfaniin]

^^Miisaanka aad wax ka cabirrayso hadduu yahay tfg iyo siday wax u fashay, isma ogide ma dhaantid kuwa miisanka ka dhigtay USC iyo waxay fashay ama Barre iyo wuxuu ka falay Hargeysa iyo Burco. Adeer, soomaliweyn (in its contemporary meaning) iyo soomalinimaduba waa baahi siyaasadeed oo aan la'aanteed qawmiyadda soomaalidu aysan bad-baadeyn kuna baraareyn gobolkan Geeska Africa.

 

In taccadiyada dagaalada sokkeeyo la daliishado laguna buriyo soomaalinimadda runtii waa dood quus ah oo aan geedkaa gaari karin! Haddii miqyaas laga dhigto tacadiyyada noocaas ah, oo qolodii la xummeeyyaaba ama lagu xadgudbaaba somalinimadda xoorto, horta maxaa soo hari waa su'aale?

Aniga siday ila tahay soomalidu dunuub badan bay kale galeen, waa is laayeen, oo isdileen. Waxay maanta soomaalidu ku jirtaa marxalad adag oo aakhirka labo maxsuul midkood uun dhali doonta. In soomaali qiimeyso soomaalinamadda iyo islaanimadda ooy so ceshadaan karaamadoodii iyo dawladnimadoodii. Iyo inay lummaan oo ay noqdaan qabaa il harsada hooska Ethiopia oo mar marka qaarkoodna iyagu islaaya...waddo sadexaad iima muuqatto adeer!

[Coloow]

^^^Adeer adiga maxaa ku cabiri lahayd? Haddaay tahay academic concept waad saxantahay- laakin waxaan ka hadleeynaa xaqiiqda maanta taagan.

 

Warkaaga waxaa ku cad inaay kula tahay in soomalinimadu aay "comma" ku jirto. Aniguse waxaan leeyahay waay xijaabatay (oo Allaha ha u naxriisto).

 

Dawladdii Afweyne, USCdi, sannadooyinka moryaanta iyo TFG-baas ee maanta HADADAANÀN KU CABIRIN MAXAA lagu cabiraa?

 

Eeg boggaga Internetka ee bal ii sheeg meel aay soomaalinimo ku nooshahay.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Waxa nagu dhacay wax cusub maaha saaxiib! Dadyow ay ore ugu dhaceen oo ka badbaaday baa badan. Waxaa ii muuqda ififaalo ah inaan ka badbaadno…dhowr sano danbe in laysii laayyo bay u badantahay laakiin waa laga baxayyaa shiddadan maanta taagan IA.

 

Aniga waxaan base line ii ah in dhibka soomaali haystaa uu yahay hoggaan xumo. Unless aad ii sheegtid inaan hoggaan fiican la heli doonin, I have a good reason to be optimistic about the futute…

[Coloow]

^^^^ Jawaabta ah "dadka dhan waa soo wada mareen" waa mid laciif ah; Ma ummaddaha kale ayaan ka dambeeynaa xagga caqliga?

 

Aniga dhowr sanno ayaan rajo ku noolaa. Dhibaatada gumeeysiga madoow inoo geeystay waa mid soo jireen ah. Soomaalinimana iskaba daa oo waxay ahayd mid igu lamaan ah; waan ku seexan jirey, ku riyoon jirey, cuni jirey, ku hamin jirey.

 

Laakin maanta waxaan ahay pessimistic; Laakin Ilaah naxriistiisa lama dhararo.

 

Waxaan aad ugu xumaaday markii aan arkay soomaalidda isticmaayo aalada internetka (gaar ahaan SOL oo aan u haaystay inaay tahay malka ka duwan kuwa kale). Markii aan arkay inaay qabiil qaranka ka hor marinayaan dad badan (oo aan markii hore ku bahooney soomaalinimo, bansiinkii ayaa iga dhamaaday).

 

Si kastaba arrintu ha ahaate weli mabdaeeyga ahaa inaan ahay nin soomali ah, oo aan qabiil lahayn (waan dafirey) waan sitaa.

[Dhul-Qarnayn]

Somaalinimo is DEAD!

 

There is Haw1ye, Dar0od, I-saaq e.t.c actually I take that back...Haw1ye, Dar0od, I-saaq is DEAD!

 

There is Ab-gaal, Habar gidir, Duduble, Ab-same, Lelkaseh, Hart1, Mare'han, Habar Habushed, Habar Tojale, Habar Awal,Habar Yunis e.t.c

 

My bad! I take that back....Ab-gaal, Habar gidir,Duduble, Ab-same , Lelkaseh, Hart1,Mare'han, Habar Habushed, Habar Tojale, Habar Awal,Habar Yunis is DEAD!

 

There is Sheikhal, Sac'ad , Suleymaan, Warculus, O-gaden, Gherri, Warsan-geli, Dhul-bahante, M0jeerteen, Cisse Muse, Saad Muse e.t.c and they all DEAD! you get the picture,we all know that they breakdown even further.

 

Somalinimo, Somalis and everything about Somalia is DEAD!

 

Now I wanna argue that this DEATH need not be a negative thing for Somalis....we can use it .We can use this "Live Free or Die" mentality we have collectively perfected for a very long time.

 

In Somalia, no one is going to listen to a government which is gonna wanna claim ownership and control over an individual rights.

 

They're also not going to pay taxes to a government that does not protect them - Remember the saying "My brother and I against my half-brother, My brother and me against my father, my father's household against my uncle's household, our two households (my uncle's and mine) against the rest of my immediate kin, my immediate kin against non-immediate members of my clan, my clan against other clans, and finally, my nation and me against the world" ... thus in Somalia no one has a permanent enemy but on the flip side, no one has a permanent friend either, only a permanent context. So if we were to view Somaalinimo in the context of an institutionalized instability as the only standard of human relationships in Somalia, it cannot exist.

 

You have to look at what people think of the government. I mean,we haven't had one since 1991!! Don't you think that people have found a way to exist without it? Besides a succesful government in Somalia will have to curtail the activities a whole class of opportunists — from squatter landlords to teenage gunmen for hire to vendors of out-of-date baby formula who have long been feeding off the anarchy in Somalia for so long that they refuse to let go.

 

They do not pay taxes, their businesses are totally unregulated, and they have skills that are not necessarily geared toward a peaceful society and ontop of that Somalis being the legendary "dimwit" individualists that they are , do not see the purpose of a government.

 

Bottom line: if you want a new government to work in Somalia and unify Somalia under the banner of Somaalinimo, it has to accommodate existing infrastructure. This rule should be applied to any failed state where a centralized government does not function. If not, then you can call Somalia's current condition a "libertarian utopia". No government, no property records and titles, no official dispute resolution, no contracts...it all means that Somalia is a long way off from connecting to the global economy, which is the people's best chance at prosperity. In the meantime, lets keep kicking each others asses!

 

 

p.s

dear moderator, why in the name of all that is holy, are Somali clan names censored? Do you think by us not mentioning the names of tribes our problems will all go away?

[stoit]

Somalinimo

 

MY VIEW

 

Who can be said to be Somali and why ?

As far as I know there are three ways in which one can be classified to be Somali or not.

 

LINEAGE

 

We Somalis trace our lineage down and up our men. This is called patrilineal decent system. This means that up the line, we are or we know ourselves by who our fathers are or were and we also give our children a group identify accordingly down the same line.

 

So a Somali is then he/she whose father is or was a Somali.

 

 

What happens to children born of Somali women then ?

 

Well if they happen to be of Somali men at the same time then there is no quarrel but if they happen to be of a foreign father we are then forced to find a different qualification.

 

 

SPATIAL ORIGIN

 

We also have a designated space or land in the form of country and so anybody who can trace their origins to this land is also a Somali.

 

The criteria then shifts to the next deciding factor -namely where they were born. As regards culture or the norms ,anybody who can trace their origins back to Somalia should then be seen and accepted as Somali.

 

However ,we also have conflicting interests and legal procedures so in order for one to legally be able to claim his/her somalinimo more qualifications are necessary.

 

 

OUR COMMON LANGUAGE

 

Somali language is another deciding factor as concerns culture in deciding whether one can be said to be Somali or not regardless of land but in part dependant of lineage, I think. So those that speak Somali and find themselves on the other side of our boundary line can claim to be Somalis and that those boundaries set by the colonialists can deny them not of this claim. This argument is highly dependant on the fact that we were one and that those lands were unjustly given away and kept away from us by the colonialists.

 

So what if another were to learn Somali from a far away country with no shared culture and/or diin ? It seems that however good or fluent they become in Somali if they do not supplement that with, say a common culture with us or can trace their lineage back to us, we will not grant them somalinimo and accept them as one of us.

 

So the somali language is one of the deciding factors but a supplementary one and cannot be the sole criteria on which one can base their claim and win .

In short, language will help but it wont make you a Somali by itself.

 

 

THROUGH LEGAL PROCEDURES

 

 

Since a nation entails the land and those that populate it , it can then be said to be alive and kicking . In other words ever changing .

 

The people replace each other all the time. Some die others are born to replace them. Generations, which can be said to be roughly a period of 30 years each, also replace each other thereby bringing new ideas and new ways of doing things which in turn change culture over time. The land boundaries can also change ,some parts may seek autonomy and part to form a new nation. Others may be brought together by necessity or choice to form a larger nation and so on.

 

The nation must then have procedure whereby people may either join our nation or depart from it if they should wish so. The laws that will enable this process must then be agreed upon and set before hand in order that it may be clear to all as to what they will either gain or lose by their choice.

 

 

We know that all human beings are born somewhere and in most cases that is also where they grow up and call home. This is even more so(home) when ones parents were also born and bred there and no one can then refute as to their just legal claim in identifying themselves to be from that land.

 

In our case ethnicity and the land or country happen to carry the same name I.e. Somali for the people and Somalia for the land so anybody who was born and bred in Somalia reserves the right to call themselves Somali, even when their lineage or roots have not been firmly grounded in our soil.

 

However we shall still try and trace the proper boundaries for the sake of justice and harmony among ourselves and for our beloved nation.

 

THROUGH BIRTH

 

Those that were or will be born in Somalia and are of foreign parents but removed and grew up elsewhere can naturally not lay any legitimate claim to Somalia. However, those that were born and bred in Somalia and are of foreign parents but intend to live in Somalia for the foreseeable future, reserve the right to call themselves Somalis should they choose to do so and must then be accepted and granted equal access and say.

 

 

 

Those who were born in Somalia and one of their parents is Somali -regardless of which one -but grew up abroad can obtain their nationality upon request without further ado. If they hold a different nationality ,they must however check if that nation allows dual nationality in case they should also need to keep their former nationality.

 

If the parent through which he/she claims linkage is the father then the claim is also in harmony with culture and our diin is also appeased (assuming that he did not leave Islam)

 

If the link is through the mother ,

 

I’ll have to reminder you here that matrilineal decent disqualifies one from any claims of belonging as far as culture is concerned and maybe diin as well, if her husband is not a muslim. However when it comes to legality its different and many a times the law and culture or diin divert in order that all may be accommodated.

 

Those that have no known links to Somalia ( be it spatial ,cultural or through lineage) and still wish to be part of us should also be allowed to do so. The processes and procedures which must be followed to this end are for the government of Somalia to decide but be assured that it is of every Somalis responsibility to read ,understand and either voice their objections or affirm their consent.

 

Please correct me or point out any omissions. Anyone can also add anything they deem necessary.

 

MAHADSANIDIN KULIGIIN.

[Meiji]

Interesting discussion.

 

Somalinimo exists, it only needs a political ideology to embody it.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Somalinimo iyo siyaasad isma gasho

Somalinimo halkeeda oo dayaa Siyaasada na halkeeda oo dayaa intii is afgaranaysa ha israacdo.

[TopGirl]

i like the idea of somalinimo adhave always put that thought in mind. but since i was brought up in the west, i have realised i cared less about my somalinimo. and more about being equal no matter where you from. the liberal mentality of the west has got the best of me. however i dont think thats such bad idea, as im not as racist as i thought i would. more recently since 9/11 i become islamnimo. i care more about the religion and would always lean towards it when having discussions.

 

i do believe that the idea of somalinimo hs died, even though to olde generations like our parents they might still carry that torch, but with current generation, and the young thats grwin up, idoubt very much they care about somalinimo.