Catch 22?

[SeeKer]

I was listening to the lecture by Imam Anwar Al Awlaki "Allah is preparing us for Victory". The second part of the lecture lead me to post this question.

Is knowing what will happen enable us to face our demons more surefootedly?

Is knowing what will happen make the death and killings easier to deal with?

Finally is knowing what the future holds propel one to self fulfill it?

[Naden]

^ What was the second part of the lecture about?

[SeeKer]

A bunch of things. Basis of it is ahadith that states that Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine will be the vanguards of jihad. That it was professed and it is slowly being realized. It also speaks of fundamentalism by the west. Let me just transcribe it for easier coherency

 

"If Allah zawajal wants an end he will creat for it. It means...we mentioned three proofs to this rule. Ba3th and we mentioned what happened in Persia and then an example from the time of Salahuddin. Now we said that history repeats itself that was number one and number two Allah zawajal is preparing particular areas (read Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan and S. Turkey) and number three that fundamentalism is on the rise in the west (read that the west is edging towards fundamentalism when it comes to dealing with Religion/Islam) and number four the ummah has to pass through stations towards establishment (read Allah zawajal does not give 3mbiyah [the establishment on earth] unless it becomes clear who is with him and who is against him.Ummah needs to be seperated into mumin and munafiq)."

 

Ps:- Sorry if its not clear but I took his summary only.If you need to listen the whole second part, with more explaination google the lecture & you will find the download site or click on my homepage and I streamed it on my page.

[Johnny B]

" Allah is preparing us for Victory" might sound innocent, even intresting for the simple Muslim consumer, but for a thinking Muslim, (s)he ought dislike when someone infers having the knowledge of what Allah is preparing for her/him.

 

History has it so , an interpretation of Allah's will is one of the leading causes of death.

[SeeKer]

^^^Wading out a lil deep in that pool with no safe line ain't ya mate?

 

The dude wasn't infering knowledge into the will of Allah (swt). He was quoting ahadith and using that in our current context. Have you seen text in the major religion dealing with the apocalypse? Is that not foretold and the signs of it. Same case with Imam Anwar. He is reading about a foretold situation and he contextualizing it to the present day.

[Johnny B]

Ahhhhh , You're so capable of analyzing my points,ideas and hints with such a careful precision,but then why suspend that rational process when you approach your own beliefs about what might have been foretold.

All of a sudden why everything becomes possible, even probable and the mere saying of the Imam or the Sheikh suffices ,"so i believe it" becomes a forte? and JB is accused of a priori bias against the supernatural when he is merely following the process that you abandoned while digesting what the Imam claims to know.

 

Let me for once turn into a fortune-teller and foretell that you'll develop wings by Monday.

 

A'aa, i can see you putting on that rational 'dirac' again.

[Khayr]

Seeker and the shiekh have proven there theorems and have been proven by others through Regression analysis.

 

To say that the certain events reflect the apocalyptic age is totally different then dropping a Red Herring and saying that you'll develop wings by Monday.

 

There is a definite attribution bias on your part.

[SeeKer]

Simple question JB. Did you listen to the lecture? If you did, did you see where my questions stem from? If not, then aren't you proving your bias against the supernatural?

 

Don't be presumptous and bougie iight!

[Johnny B]

Atheer Kahyr, Proving the theorems as it were, oh,the secret sign has been revealed,the secret message has been decoded.worse, the end is near, catastrophy, earthquakes, wars , femines and what not are your proofs , yet to backpeddle from each and every claim has become slightly lesser than a habbit,so far an evolving interpretation of the otherwise solid proofs regarding the destiny of humanity is all you seem to afford.

historical events are nothing but symbols of what has really taken place,as time progressesd, Mankind coulden't skip noticing the engulfing reality, that too many promised apocalypse did not arrive.

You may continue to nurse the hope that it might appear someday,and God’s will comes to fruition, do get practically minded every now n then and try to develop newer interpretations of the mysterious predictions, since your sources could not possibly be mistaken, but must have meant something entirely different than you thought.

 

Seeker,I did see where your questions stem from and i find them natural and rational, but if you'd noticed my point of contention i'd skip answering this very question.

let me put it this way , Why ask these questions while swollowing the apocalypse ?

i hope that makes sense !!

Bougie ? maybe , presumptous ? A , AA

[Naden]

^

 

Seeker, I finally had a chance today to listen to the audio lectures on your site. The lecturer is clearly a history buff from his biography and the enthusiastic immersion with which he approaches early muslim history, specifically the khilafah times. In the first part , he takes some pretty generous liberties with connecting certain verses to historical events and weaves them both cleverly to comment on today's politics. He claims that the whole globe is waging a war against you.

 

He makes some good points about American media and military spending. He also says to serve Islam now, we should emphasize different needs like dacwa and knowledge. He gingerly approaches economic/foreign policies although he quickly implicates religion in this war he claims is being waged. Unfortunately, he oscillates between the reasonable and the absurd, and takes a tour around nostalgia, dangerously flirting with idol worship in some of his references to the sahaba and first generations. He either lacks some critical skill in examining historical text or perhaps he is saving that for a different audience. In any case, he is obviously touting the popular themes in today's lecture circuit including a return to khilafah and Jihad.

 

The second part is a different story. He pushes an armageddon type confrontation between the west and muslims, kufr and Imaan, through a JIHAD that he so poorly defines. He then makes a very curious link between this Jihad and Al-wala'a-and-al-bara'a. The lecturer says: some muslims claim that we’ll be victorious when we follow the path of other nations and pursue agriculture, business, industry, trade and technology. He, then, claims that this type of thinking is contradictory to the prophet’s (csw) instructions in a hadith to embrace Jihad instead of worrying about worldly preoccupations like farming. What floored me more than anything was his recitation of a supposed hadeeth where the prophet (csw) says “my provisions/risq comes from under my spearâ€. He suggests that this supposed hadeeth must mean that ghaneema or war booty is better than business, farming, or being a shepherd.

 

His absolute final point, after listing the many enriching benefits of Jihad booty, was that muslims would not have to pay taxes any more as there would be plenty of wealth taken from kuffar. He, then, drop kicks a most brilliant Islamic legislation, which he may have remembered miraculously or authored instantly, that says the prophet (csw) deemed taxes to be haram and anyone who deals in any job that relates in taxes is cursed. Funny thing to say for a young man who received both his undergraduate and master’s degrees in state schools that are heavily subsidized by taxes .

 

I thought I'd be able to answer your questions but I'm still getting over the above.

[SeeKer]

Naden there are many things he states in his lecture that I don't know much about. It prompted me not only to those questions but to actually start looking for the book he bases most of his lecture on. I definately have to listen to the lecture again since there are some points you mentioned that must have just whizzed by me as I drove whilst listening to the lecture.

 

JB I don't know how to answer your question but I will try to. How dare I ask rational questions with a firm belief in the end of the world? I ask because I wish to base my belief in firm knowledge. There are different sources out there on this topic and perhaps not all of them are true. There is no black and white in my view of religion. I see a lot of gray areas and this falls within the grey area. Not that it won't come but that it will occur the way people keep predicting it to happen.

 

Ps:- whats with the A's? :confused:

[Johnny B]

Seeker , thanks for the cincere answer , i appreciated it, and it shoulden't bother me that you put more logical thoughts into the way people keep predicting it to happen than you do in accepting that it will happen. That you caught 22 should be more than enough.

 

Naden, Now i know why many Muslims abuse the term 'JIHAD', i diden't know that in an Islamic State a Jihad booty is Tax deductable.

[Mufti of the Imams and Shu]

Is knowing what will happen enable us to face our demons more surefootedly?

General answer is yes and no.

Yes, because we have characters, ie, humans with personalities that excel well when they know the task infront of them. They prepare well for the future and ask Allah for assistance in facing the task ahead.

Example: Students who study well in advance of their exams and on the day of the exam, read some ayat from the quran and Allah provides them sukoon.

Side note: From a secularist perspective, that student/person is able to control their impulses and rely on their ability first which enables them to withstand the pressure of the exam others are having.Thus, they are able to excel or with regard your question, face their demons surefootedlu

 

No, because there are other characters, ie, other humans who act differently when they know what is going to happen. Those characters crack under the pressure of what is going to happen and never really prepare for what is happening or going to happen.

Example: I believe you can find many examples of such characters.

On a side note: From asecular perspective, these people have chemical imbalances in their brain which inhibits them from having perspective and steadfastness for what is going to happen. And such, they cannot not excel even if they know what lies ahead

 

Is knowing what will happen make the death and killings easier to deal with?

Most certainly not when it comes to killing! Put it this way, unless one has killed someone, they can never know how to deal with it. This is also confounded by the number of ways people deal with killing. Just try watching the History channel and listen to how the soldiers describe how they killed human beings. Some cry, some stop speaking for a while and some just talk about it as if they were reading a book. As for death, humans also have various ways of dealing with the death. I only know of two circumstance when humans can deal easily with death. One is when they are not attached to the person and two is when they are far from away from the palace the person was deceased.

 

Finally is knowing what the future holds propel one to self fulfill it?

It depends on what type of person you are! Are you the former or the latter personality I described above? Rherotical question, answer not need .If you are the former, then yes. If you are the latter, then no.

 

 

On a side note: Even if one is the former, there is no saying that the Almighty will not throw those dice and change the playing ground before you can grasp it.

[Mufti of the Imams and Shu]

I also wanted to add: I don't like preachers! Especially ones who try to answer the question of today with the answers of yesterday. So, I have to confess, I have not heard him or will ever hear him

[SeeKer]

Originally posted by J B:

Seeker , thanks for the cincere answer , i appreciated it, and it shoulden't bother me that you put more logical thoughts into the way people keep predicting it to happen than you do in accepting that it will happen. That you caught 22 should be more than enough.

 

Sarcasm at its best. How originial