Siyad Barre, the Ataturk of Somalia?

[Lidia]

When General Siyad Barre staged a coup d'etat, in 1966 and the army took control of the government. He proclaimed Somalia's commitment to scientific socialism and turned to the Soviet Union for support as we know. The government then attempted to suppress lineage and tribal affiliations and appealed for national cooperation. A cult was created around the person of the head of state. Muslim religious leaders were executed in 1975 primarily because; I presume that Somalis being adherents of three main Sufi brotherhoods- the Qadirirya, the Ahmadiya, and the Salihiya, had a tendency to regard ancestors as Sufi saints. Consequently, the Sufi communities were commonly established on the boundaries between tribal groups where they could serve as mediators and arbitrators. Barre’s actions echo the array of anti-Sufi forces that had been gaining ground during the first half of the century, but especially since the 1920s. The anti-Sufi forces were composed of nationalists and secularisers, perhaps most significant being Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Ataturk saw the Sufi brotherhoods as a reactionary and subversive element in the newly established Republic of Turkey and ordered their suppression in 1925. Siyad Barre, similar to Ataturk closed many of the Sufi tekkes and the tombs of Saints because in his eyes, there was simply no place in a land aspiring to become a secular and a modern nation state to those deemed “primitiveâ€. Therefore, Barre’s action towards the religious leaders was an attempt to change the traditional role the Sufis played in Somalia. Sufis served the tribes as teachers and judges, administering Muslim law and in matrimonial, Property and contract matters. And when a local Sufi saint died, his tomb often became a venerated place, the object of pilgrimages, and was sanctified by his reputation for baraka. Sufism fitted very well into the Somali society which already had innumerable holy men, who also provided religious services and were the objects of veneration. Consequently, Barre’s attempted to create a Westphalian system type state in which the citizens have obligations and allegiance to the nation-state, rather than tribal religious leaders in the present or the spiritual world, let to the executions of religious leaders in 1975. Barre’s secularization of the Somali society included giving equal legal rights to women, the promotion of literacy, and the move to settle the nomads on state farms or collectives.

[Kashafa]

I don't think Barre's fight was against the traditional apolitical Sufi sect of Islam which was prevalent back then, simply because they posed no threat to him or the governing institutions. What caused Barre's violent backlash against Islam was the Islamic revival that was sweeping across Muslim lands in the 60's and 70's. This posed a direct challenge to secular dictators because the bottom line was: All power, authority, and legitimacy belongs to Allah(SWT) and stems from the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Barre couldn't stomach that. Compromise on anything but power. So he took a page out of Attaturk's book and decided to uproot Islam from the lives of the people: Ban the hijab. Discourage/ban prayer. Introduce a cult system where the dictator is subtly worshipped as a demigod. Riducle religion as an archaic relic of the Middle Ages.

 

Well, today Islamic Courts reign supreme in the same city where Barre executed the 11 scholars. And there are signs of an Islamic revival across the globe. The Muslim Brotherhood's slogan rings true: Islam is the Solution

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

So he took a page out of Attaturk's book and decided to uproot Islam from the lives of the people: Ban the hijab. Discourage/ban prayer. Introduce a cult system where the dictator is subtly worshipped as a demigod. Riducle religion as an archaic relic of the Middle Ages.

And when did Max'ed Siyaad Barre 'ban' the xijaab? When did he 'discourage' or outright 'ban' the salaada? And 'ridicule the religion,' how?

 

He may have ordered the killing of 11 wadaado, but the fact was compared to other cult-accumulating dictators of his time, his was a moderate and mild, considering he never actually had that classical, true definition of 'demigod' totalitarian.

 

His face may have been forced on countless stores and other small business places, but the true fact was his face was never on the currency [one of the true features of a dictatorship], not even a single shilin. Even the so-called non-dictators of his time couldn't resist, like Daanyeerkii Ismooday Carab [Daniel Arap Moi], whose propagandic youthful face is splashed all shillings to this day.

 

He never had a taalo or statue dedicated to him in the capital or the countryside. He only had a single building named after him in the whole country, and it was a minor sar of a military training at such.

 

Sure he was nonetheless a dictator, however definitely not on the ranks of Ataturk.

[Kashafa]

And when did Max'ed Siyaad Barre 'ban' the xijaab? When did he 'discourage' or outright 'ban' the salaada? And 'ridicule the religion,' how?

I could basically write an entire book detailing how the Barre regime lead a campaign eradicating Islam from Somali life. The evidence is that damning. It's not even on a 'did he/or did he not' level. I'm suprised that you, an obviously astute observer of the Somali political scene, would dispute that.

 

A few points to ponder on:

 

* First-hand accounts of girls getting kicked out of Lafoole University for wearing the hijab. I hope you'll agree with me that the hijab was actively combated by goverment agents from the infamous 'Orientation' centers where Barre tried(and fairly succeeded) to brainwash the people with Guulwade cultism and Socialist/Communist BS. Any girl brave enough to don the hijab was branded a 'crazy Iqwaani' or even worse a prostitute. Need I say more ?

 

* Salaad was discouraged or outright banned in the military. You could not make your 5 prayers and not be persecuted, again, as a crazy Aqawaan. To move up in the ranks, you'd have to be the perfect example of a young Siyadist: Enlightened, beer-swilling, Lenin-quoting secular soldier. Again, this information is well-known by speaking to anybody who went through Xalane and the military. On the civillian front, NSS agents would tail and target people known to frequent the masaajid. You'd be on the goverment watch list for displaying any religous sentiment.

 

He may have ordered the killing of 11 wadaado, but the fact was compared to other cult-accumulating dictators of his time, his was a moderate and mild, considering he never actually had that classical, true definition of 'demigod' totalitarian.

It'd be a smart move for any dictator tryna develop a personality cult to learn from Barre, cuz he was the master of the art of mental manipulation. Giant posters of him, Marx, and Lenin on Main Street, Mogadisho. Little booklets of his 'wisdom' being indoctrinated to kids in grade school and in orientation centers nationwide. At times, Barre-man out-Turked Attaturk himself ! You just gotta give the devil his due. He was nice with it.

 

As the Arabic proverb goes "Kulu mamnooc marghoob"(all that is forbidden becomes desirable), Barre's anti-Islamic tactics backfired on him with the youth taking up Islam's cause and going abroad to study. Who are these crazy aqwaanis they speak of, lemme check'em out ! The generation of kids he tried to indocrtinate with Scientific Socialist Siyadism are now running Moga and much of the country on a Sharia-cures-all platform. How's that for irony coming back to to bite you in the kulu

[me]

Siad Barre was no Attaturk, but I wish he was. Look at Attaturks legacy and look at Siad Barre's legacy.

 

Attaturk might be blamed for allot of things but, but he saved Turkey, without him Turkey would be another struggleing country in the Middle East and they sure would have been coloinized. Ataturk was a great man.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

me, the difference is not between ataturk and Siyad, bu between Somalis and turks. Turks realized that his programs were in the interest of their nation and Somalis realized that siyad was not from their clan.

[me]

The Somalis need an Ataturk.

 

AtaSomali

 

Thats cleans up our country, I am willing henchman for any Atasomali. These Somali apes need some good whipping. First they need to learn what death is before they can learn what living is.

[ElPunto]

^Ataturk is a poor role model. He was a Muslim hating drunkard who had little self-respect.

[me]

Atleast he made modern Turkey what it is. The army in Turkey protects teh country according to Ataturks doctrine. All the people in Turkey have the same rights. He has modernized Turkey, built a strong army, regained terretories lost by the incompetant sultans (Cyprus). He has fought the Arabization of Turkey and made the Turkish language the main language in Turkey. He also opted for the latin script instead of the arabized script. He dealt with the Armenian sepratists. He industralized Turkey.

 

Without Ataturk, Turkey would have disintegrated, they would havebeen colonized and the Turks would not be who they are. You will not find one Turk today who hates Ataturk.

 

Ataturk fought of the British, French, The Greeks, The Russians and all their allies.

 

Ataturk = The father of the turks.

 

Mustafa Kamal was a true nationalist who has saved his country. If only we had a man like him who could safe us today just like he saved Turkey.

[me]

Biography of Atatürk

 

Mustafa Kemal ATATÃœRK

 

FOUNDER AND THE FIRST PRESIDENT OF THE TURKISH REPUBLIC

 

Atatürk was born in 1881 at the Kocakasım ward of Salonika, in a three story pink house located on Islahhane Street. His father is Ali Rıza Efendi and his mother Zübeyde Hanım. His paternal grandfather, Hafız Ahmed Efendi belonged to the Kocacık nomads who were settled in Macedonia during the XIV - XV th centuries. His mother Zübeyde Hanım was the daughter of an Old Turkish family who had settled in the town of Langasa near Salonika. Ali Rıza Efendi, who worked as militia officer, title deed clerck and lumber trader, married Zübeyde Hanım in 1871. Four of the 5 siblings of Atatürk died at early ages and only one sister, Makbule (Atadan) survived, and lived until 1956.

 

 

Upon reaching school age, little Mustafa started school at the neighborhood classes of Hafız Mehmet Efendi and later, with his father's choice, was transferred to Şemsi Efendi School. He lost his father in 1888 where upon he stayed at the farm of his maternal uncle for a while and returned to Salonika to complete his studies. He registered at the Salonika Mülkiye Rüştiye (secondary school) and soon transferred to the military Rüştiye. While at this school, his math teacher, also named Mustafa, added "Kemal" to his name. He attended the Manastır Military School between 1896 - 1899 and later the Military School in İstanbul from which he graduated in 1902 with the rank of lieutenant. He later entered the Military Academy and graduated on January 11, 1905 with the rank of major. Between 1905 - 1907 he was stationed in Damascus with the 5th. Army. In 1907 he was promoted to the rank of "Kolağası" (senior major) and was posted with the III rd Army , which was stationed in Manastır. He was the Staff Officer of the "Special Troops" (Hareket Ordusu) which entered İstanbul on April 19, 1909. He was sent to Paris in 1910 where he attended the Picardie manuevers. In 1911 he started to work at the General Staff Office in İstanbul.

 

Mustafa Kemal was stationed at Tobruk and Derne regions with a group of his friends during the war which started with the Italian attack on Tripoli. He won the Tobruk battle in 22 December 1911 against the Italians. On March 6, 1912 he was made the Commander of Derne.

 

When the Balkan War started in October 1912, Mustafa Kemal joined the battle with units from Gallipoli and Bolayır. His contributions to the recapturing of Dimetoka and Edirne were considerable. In 1913 he was assigned to Sofia as a military attache. In 1914, while still at this post, he was promoted to the rank of lieutenant colonel. His term as an attache ended in January 1915. By that time the First World War had started and the ottomon Empire was inevitably involved. Mustafa Kemal was posted to Tekirdağ with the assignment of forming the 19th Division.

 

Mustafa Kemal put his signature under a legend of heroism at Çanakkale during the First World War, which had started in 1914, and had the Allied Powers admit to the fact that "Çanakkale is unpassable!" On March 18, 1915 when the English and French navies in an attempt to force their way up the Çanakkale Strait gave heavy loses, they decided to put units on land at Gallipoli Peninsula. The enemy forces which landed at Arıburnu on 25 April 1915 were stopped by 19th Divison under Mustafa Kemal's command at Conkbayırı. Mustafa Kemal was promoted to the rank of colonel after this victory. English forces attacked at Arıburnu once more on 6-7 August 1915. Mustafa Kemal, as the Commander of the Anafartalar Forces won the Anafartalar Victory on 6-7 August 1915. This victory was followed by the victories of Kireçtepe on August 17, and the Second Anafartalar Victory on August 21. Turkish nation who lost about 253.000 men at battle, had managed to emerge in honour against the Allied forces. Actually the fate at trenches changed when Mustafa Kemal addressed his soldiers with the words "I am not giving you an order to attack, I am ordering you to die!"

 

Mustafa Kemal was stationed at Edirne and Diyarbakır after the Çanakkale wars and was promoted to the rank of lieutenant general on 1 April 1916. He fought against the Russian forces and recaptured Muş and Bitlis. Following short assignments at Damascus and Khallepo, he came to İstanbul in 1917. He traveled to Germany with Vahdettin Efendi, the heir to the throne. He became sick after this trip and went to Vienna and Karisbad for treatment. He returned to Khalleppo on 15 August 1918 as the Commander of the 7th army. At this front, he fought successful defence wars. He was appointed as the Commandar of Yıldırım Armies one day after the signing of the armistice at Mondros. When this army was disbanded, he came to İstanbul on November 13, 1918 and started to work at the Ministry of Defence.

 

When, following the Mondros Armistice, the Allied forces started to take over the Ottoman armies, Mustafa Kemal went to Samsun on May 19, 1919 as 9th Army Inspector. With the circular he published on 22 June 1919 at Amasya, he declared that " The freedom of the nation shall be restored with the resolve and determination of the nation itself" and called the meeting of the Sivas Congress. He convened Erzurum Congress during 23 July - 7 August 1919 and Sivas Congress during 4 - 11 September 1919, thus defining the path to be followed towards the freedom of the motherland. He was met with great enthusiasm in Ankara on 27 December 1919. With the initiation of the Turkish Grand National Assembly on 23 April 1920, a significant step was taken on the way to establishing the Turkish Republic. Mustafa Kemal was elected as the head of the national assembly as well as the head of the government. The Grand National Assembly started to put into effect the necessary legislative measures so as to enable the Independence War to come to a successful conclusion.

 

Turkish War of Independence started with the first bullet shot at enemy on 15 May 1919 during the Gerek occupation of Ä°zmir. The fight against the victors of the First World War who had divided up the Ottoman Empire with the Treaty of Sevres signed on 10 August 1920, initially started with the militia forces called Kuva-yi Milliye. Turkish Assembly later initiated a regular army and achieving integration between the army and the militia, was able to conclude the war in victory.

 

The significant stages of the Turkish War of Independence under the Command of Mustafa Kemal are

 

* Recapturing Sarıkamış, Kars and Gümrü

* Çukurova, Gazi Antep, Kahramanmaraş, Şanlı Urfa defenses (1919 - 1921)

* Ist İnönü Victory

* IInd İnönü Victory

* Sakarya Victory

* Great Attack, Battle of the Chief Commander and the Great Victory

 

After the Sakarya Victory, National Assembly bestowed the rank of marashal on Mustafa Kemal and the Gazi (veteran) title. War of Independences came to end with the Lozanne Agreement, which was signed on 24 July 1923. Hence, there were no longer any obstacles to create a new nation on Turkish soil which Treaty of Sevre had torn to pieces leaving Turks an area the size of 5-6 provinces.

 

The National Assembly which first convened on 23 April 1920 in Ankara was the first clue to the Turkish Republic. The successful management of the War of Independence by this assembly accelerated the founding of the new Turkish State. On 1 November 1922, the offices of the Sultan and caliph were severed from one other and the former was abolished. There was no longer any administrative ties with the Ottoman Empire. On 29 October 1923, Turkish Republic was formally proclaimed and Atatürk was unanimously elected as its first President. On 30 October 1923, the first government of the Republic was formed by İsmet İnönü. Turkish Republic started to grow on the foundations of the twin principles "Sovereignty, unconditionally belongs to the nation" and "peace at home, peace in the world,"

 

Atatürk undertook a series of reforms to "raise Turkey to the level of modern civilization" which can be grouped under five titles

 

1. Political Reforms

 

* Abolishment of the office of the Sultan (November 1922)

* Proclamation of the Republic (29 October 1923)

* Abolishment of the caliph (3 March 1924)

 

2. Social Reforms

 

* Recognition of equal rights to men and women (1926 - 1934)

* Reform of Headgear and Dress (25 November 1925)

* Closure of mausoleums and dervish lodges (30 November 1925)

* Law on family names (21 June 1934)

* Abolishment of titles and by-names (26 November 1934)

* Adoption of international calendar, hours and measurements (1925 - 1931)

 

3. Legal Reforms

 

* Abolishment of the Canon Law (1924 - 1937)

* Transfer to a secular law structure by adoption of Turkish Civil Code and other laws (1924 - 1937)

 

4. Reforms in the fields of education and culture

 

* Unification of education (3 March 1924)

* Adoption of new Turkish alphabet (1 November 1928)

* Establishment of Turkish Language and History Institutions (1931 - 1932)

* Regulation of the university education (31 May 1933)

* Innovations in fine arts

 

5. Economic Reforms

 

* Abolution of tithe

* Encouragement of the farmers

* Establishment of model farms

* Establishment of industrial facilities, and putting into effect a law for Incentives for the Industry

* Putting into effect Ist and IInd Development Plans (1933-1937), to develop transportation networks

 

Acccording to the Law on Family Names, the Turkish Grand Assembly gave "Atatürk" (Father of Turks) as last name to Mustafa Kemal on 24 November 1934.

 

Atatürk was elected as the Speaker of the Grand Assembly on 24 April 1920 and again on 13 August 1923. This was a position equal to that of the president as well as the prime minister. Republic was proclaimed on 29 October 1923 and Atatürk was elected as the first President. Elections for President were renewed every four years according to the Constitution. In 1927, 1931 and 1935 Turkish Grand Assembly again elected Atatürk as the president.

 

Atatürk took frequent trips around the country and inspected locally the works undertaken by the state, giving directives were problems were faced. As president he was host to visiting foreign presidents, prime ministers and ministers.

 

He read his Great Speech, which covers the War of Independence and the founding of the Republic on 15 - 20 October 1927, and his 10th Year Speech on 29 October 1933.

 

Atatürk led a very simple private life. He married Latife Hanım on 29 January 1923. They took many trips to different parts of the country together. This marriage lasted until 5 August 1925. A great lover of children he adopted girls named Afet (İnan), Sabiha (Gökçen), Fikriye, Ülkü, Nebile, Rukiye and Zehra and a shepperd boy named Mustafa. He also took two boys called Abdurrahim and İhsan under his protection. He provided for the futures of these children who survived.

 

He donated his farms to the Treasury in 1937 and some of his real estate to municipalities of Ankara and Bursa. He divided his inheritance among his sister, his adopted children and to the Turkish History and Language Institutions. He enjoyed books and music as well as dancing, horse riding and swimming. He was extremely interested in Zeybek dances, wrestling and the Rumelia folk songs. Games of billards and backgammon gave him great pleasure. He valued his horse Sakarya and his dog Fox . He had a rich library. He used to invite statesman, scholars and artists to dinners where the problems of the country were discussed. He was particular about his appearence and enjoyed dressing well. He was also a lover of nature. He used to frequent the Atatürk Forest Farm and join in the work.

 

He knew French and German. Atatürk died on 10 November 1938 at 9.05 A.M at Dolmabahçe Palace, defeated by the liver ailment he was suffering from. He was taken to his temporary place of rest at the Ethnograpy Museum in Ankara on 21 November 1938. When the mausoleum was completed, he was taken to his permanent rest place with a grand ceremony on 10 November 1953.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by me:

Atleast he made modern Turkey what it is. The army in Turkey protects teh country according to Ataturks doctrine. All the people in Turkey have the same rights. He has modernized Turkey, built a strong army, regained terretories lost by the incompetant sultans (Cyprus). He has fought the Arabization of Turkey and made the Turkish language the main language in Turkey. He also opted for the latin script instead of the arabized script. He dealt with the Armenian sepratists. He industralized Turkey.

 

Without Ataturk, Turkey would have disintegrated, they would havebeen colonized and the Turks would not be who they are. You will not find one Turk today who hates Ataturk.

 

Modern Turkey is not simply the product of Ataturk. The Turks were a bunch of nomads before they embraced Islam and Islam allowed them to build the groundwork for the rather sophisticated Ottoman empire. This in turn established the foundation of the modern Turkish state which Ataturk used as a foundation to introduce his reforms.

 

Not sure about the arabization business since the Ottoman empire controlled Arab lands till the end of the 1st World War. As to an arabized script - I don't think that makes one Arabic. Similarly we can hardly say that Somalia's latin script makes it westernized etc.

 

As to no Turk having a bad thing to say re Ataturk - I'm not sure. There must be some practicing Muslims in that country - and the man who banned the hijab can hardly be the hero that you claim he is.

[me]

I know many Turks including Islamist Turks. They do not deny the heroism of the man that saved them, yes he was ultra secularist but he was a Turkish Nationalist.

 

Today Turkey is ruled by an Islamist party. They are not denying the greatness of this man.

 

Yes he went too far in his crack down on religions but he also made sure that the country did not desintegrate.

 

So one can argue that he was a Great man, in my book he stands next to Ghandi and Mandela.

 

He fought for the liberation of his nation and founded Modern Turkey from the ruins of the Ottoman empire.

[Kashafa]

There's no polite way to say this, and it's gotta be said, so I'mma just say it: F Attaturk and his beloved military.

 

Hero kuluhaa.. Hitler was a hero to the Germans too. All that Third Reich jazz and Aryan glory. Ate up half of Europe in one year. Today, his name is equivalent to a curse word.

 

Once Islam returns and gains strength in Turkey and the military loses it's death-grip on power, Attaturk will be given his proper place in history. That of a military genius who heralded the begining of secular dictatorships in the Muslim World and a fierce hatred of everything Islamic. Among his pupils: Gamal Abdul-Nasser, Hafez Al-Asad, Mu'mar Al-Gaddafi, Siad Barre, and Perves Musharraf to name a few. Turks will be suffering the after-effects of his 'reforms' for generations to come.

 

Me,

 

the words 'great' and anti-Islam are mutually exclusive. By being anti-Islam, you're as great as dog vomit. Enter Kemal Mustafa Attaturk.

 

I can understand( and disagree with) secularism. I do not understand hijab-banning, from any point of view whatsoever. That's why I'd take Dubya over Attaturd any day.

[me]

You are a 100 years late my friend. Where was your kind when the last Islamic empire was falling apart due to the treachery of Arabs? It was Arabs that destroyed the Ottoman Empire. And these same people are now to be claiming to be fighting for Islam, while those who die for Islam are today Afghani's, Somali's, Chechens, Bosnians and Kashmiri's while those who betrayed the last Islamic empire are living the virtual reality in Dubai, Saudi Arabia and the whole of the Gulf.

 

So please calm down Ataturk is a hero and history will not forget those who came to the rescue of their people in the hour of their greatest need. Secular or not he was a Turk and he served his country well. It is in the character of the so-called religious ones to demonize everything that is nationalistic. The Ummah will come inshalah but it will have a different form; it will be a United Nations Ummah, instead of one Empire Ummah.

[DAZZLER]

hi lidia,i think u have problem reading history.siyad baree didn't do all those things u said,i think its just accusation based on hatred towards him.so stop spreadin malicious information.better ask me and i will tell u the truth.so don dare talk nonsence abt da hero,revolutionist.