Abu-Salman Posted May 1, 2006 It is indeed noteworthy that for many Somalis (like many other Muslims), especially those living in the West, questioning their faith has become all too common. It goes without saying that the cultural shock caused by the West's "modernity", particularly it's advanced technology concomitant with high living standards, contrasted by the "primitiveness" of our society has led many to the path of doubt. Nevertheless, Islam wasn't actually implemented in our society neither in the famillial sphere nor on the political scene. Au contraire, the only historical authentic Islamic Califats has paved the way to the West current technology thanks to Muslims Scholar's thirst for knowledge (in an era of generalized barbarism). For instance, electronics and others areas of applied science could hardly be conceivable without the mathematical tools developped by Muslims scientists, not mentioning the others diciplines (Ibn khaldum breakthrough in history and social sciences, Ibn Sina in medicine ect). Besides these acknowledged legacies, one may wonder to which extent technology and material welfare alone could be associated with "success". What are, for instance, the use of GNP levels, the relevance of growth and others scientific innovations if our planet and specy will soon face dramatic environmental setbacks? By the same token, what are the consequences of the West "civilization" for the overwhelming majority other than exploitation of entire countries on an unprecedented scale through friendly regime and obscene inequalities ? Needless to add, one just have to look to Somalia and its suffering on an unknown scale aggravated by both Washington policy and the global warming. Which cases better illustrates the failure of atheistic "moral values" and associated legislation to further our well-being as humans or merely entire population's survival than Somalia, Rwanda, Cambodge and many others,not mentioning slavery, racism, colonialism, neo-colonialism and the holocaust done by the "civilized" Germany (while Jews, constantly persecuted in Europe, were welcomed and protected in the Califat and even found inspiration through Muslims scholars for their own theology}? Having said that, why is atheism inherently incoherent? In other words,how could one definitely conclude to the non-existence of God without any logical proof? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Socod_badne Posted May 1, 2006 Originally posted by Djib-Somali: Having said that, why is atheism inherently incoherent? In other words,how could one definitely conclude to the non-existence of God without any logical proof? Two good question but why didn't you expand a little on where you're coming from. From my reading your entire introductory backdrop didn't touch on the subject or ideas leading to your questions. Maybe it's just me but your post conjectures up images of blind monkey shooting darts at a map. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abu-Salman Posted May 2, 2006 The above much-needed historical reminder will guarantee a minimal objectivity for we are so overwhelmed by biaised, poor-quality, and sensationalism-driven pseudo-information by audiencethirsty Medias. Let alone being neutral, the vast majority of us, are more or less brainwashed wether we recognize it or not. How could it be otherwise? How many muslims do masters even the most basics aspects of their religion? Is it really perceived otherwise than a tradition, a "cultural capital" according to the French sociologist Pierre Bourdieu’s terminology? At any rate, for the agnostics who possess a decent historical and intellectual insight, they shouldn't hesitate to gather as much as unbiaised information possible on the Quranic's teachings, the Prophet's biography, Islam inherent coherence, ethically as well as pratically in the legislation field while analyzing them thorougly. In fact, this should be a permanent exercise even for the convinced Muslim,given that it's an ideal way of strenghtening one's faith while practising it through everyday life. As for the proofs of God's existence, even though many philosophers and theologians have tried to produce a "definitive" one, there are definitely more than enough for a sincere, persevering truth-seeker. In fact, by just contemplating our own universe, the Prophet's biographies and their differents teachings as well as societies, according to the Quran incitation, one may realize that all these taken-for-granted legacies, highly sophistaced systems could hardly be there just through supremely improbable "combinations" and "favorables conditions". However, even by assuming that there is an infinitesimal probability for such happening, wouldn't it be pure madness to bet on it, hence risking an unpredictable painful awakening? Definitely, there is something infinitely incoherent in each of us, given that we are so prone to take risks in such quintessentially important matter as our own salvation. Who would be ready to take an infinitely more trivial risk in such area as economical life, investment for instance? Yet how are we to explain that in our daily life, the very fact that we challenge the most basic logical rules by taking risks in wich probable lost is most definitely unbearable? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Naxar Nugaaleed Posted June 16, 2006 The Knowledge of wither God exist or not I believe is a individual journey. neither we nor science and philosophey can help you on that question. Why even bother with such a question? Possibilities for an atheist are two: 1 turns out there is God and they go hell. 2 God does not exsit and you cease to exist after death Possibilities for a believer are tree: 1 God does not exsit and you cease to exist after death 2 He does but your sent to hell becouse of following the wrong religion 3 God does exist and you followed the right path and go to heavan. After considering this, only silly people would worry about if does or does not exist. instead they would worry about which religion is the right one as for as they can deduce. If your in such setuation, you can easily rule out Hinduism, buddhism because they worship rats or worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Socod_badne Posted June 16, 2006 Originally posted by Naxar Nugaaleed: Possibilities for an atheist are two: 1 turns out there is God and they go hell. 2 God does not exsit and you cease to exist after death Not necessarily! Why must there be only 2 options? I wonder, do you have problem counting past 2? Other options may include: -a committee of Gods -lesser Gods with designated roles -a God that doesn't send his creation to hell -a God that doesn't demand worship ... and so on and so on ad infinitum. Got it captain? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Naxar Nugaaleed Posted June 17, 2006 the piont was that, no matter what kind of God or gods wither its a commitee of Gods, lesser Gods with designated roles, they don't believe in them. as for a God that doesn't send his creation to hell or a God that doesn't demand worship, that would make the whole thing of sending or creating us here, letting us die all for nothing but let us back to where we belong: heavan. Thats the only two options they have because they idea of heavan and earth can only make sense with a God thats has sent us here to determine how worthy or unworthy we are. Do you, Got it captain? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Socod_badne Posted June 17, 2006 Originally posted by Naxar Nugaaleed: Do you, Got it captain? Loud and clear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baluug Posted June 19, 2006 Regardless if God sends His creation to hell, He is still there, whether we like it or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny B Posted June 20, 2006 Originally posted by MC Xamar: Regardless if God sends His creation to hell, He is still there , whether we like it or not. " There " ? Where? There = noun , a location other than here ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hayat Posted June 26, 2006 this is just so mind blowing-do proceed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Legend of Zu Posted June 26, 2006 Originally posted by J B: quote:Originally posted by MC Xamar: Regardless if God sends His creation to hell, He is still there , whether we like it or not. " There " ? Where? There = noun , a location other than here ! JB..You dont make sense!..You are not asking the soup question, it seems! For you, the right question is who? not where? once you accept the who Only then can you ask where! Am on to you man!!! Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny B Posted June 26, 2006 Originally posted by Legend of Zu: JB..You dont make sense!..You are not asking the soup question, it seems! For you, the right question is who? not where? once you accept the who Only then can you ask where! Am on to you man!!! Cheers ^ I feel busted !! Legend, I was on MCXamar's hypothetical conclusion, namley , "if he sends ppl to hell then he is there , so let's like it !" mentality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Socod_badne Posted June 26, 2006 I find it amusing that the man by the name JB (the heck with da name?) who announced to all not long ago to making his living from the Simony business, strives so hard to undermine it's Intellectual underpinnings. I'm alluding to Islam; for which JB worked so unremittingly to discredit... to no avail! This character, who I like to think of as impiety personified, has been made to eat his own words more times than McDonalds dished out BigMacs. So why does he bother? Why fight a losing fight? My advice to our dear friend JB is: if you can't beat them, join 'em! SB, From one reprobate soul to another Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnny B Posted June 27, 2006 ^ As if going to hell was not enough? btw, why are Jamilah, Waterlily and co are sending me to hell for what you(SB) do on SOL? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salahh Posted June 30, 2006 Originally posted by Djib-Somali: It goes without saying that the cultural shock caused by the West's "modernity", particularly it's advanced technology concomitant with high living standards, contrasted by the "primitiveness" of our society has led many to the path of doubt. Besides these acknowledged legacies, one may wonder to which extent technology and material welfare alone could be associated with "success". Having said that, why is atheism inherently incoherent? In other words,how could one definitely conclude to the non-existence of God without any logical proof? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
