The value of Aid

[Caano Geel]

Ok, since there is the G8 summit comming up and there's lets all lift Africa out of poverty pressure groups running, i'd like to pose three questions:

 

1. Why should dept be cancelled. If as we know most of the money will go to fatten the pockets of very fat people. And there is little in the way of transparant accounability in how the money gets used.

 

2. Is the effect of NGO's and foreing aid the result we see today. i.e. corrupt governments propped up by foreing money rather than effective tax and economic infrastructure. In fact i think you can probably argue that its this support that maintains these ragimes. Look at Mugabi politicising food aid.

 

3. How do you guys and gals propose the problem be tackled

 

Your thoughts, please:

[Final_Say]

i guess, the white people wanna feel like they are helping out the black african's;

there are many little reasons that the debts should be cancelled; one of them being that it will allow developing countries to have this strain lifted from them as well as the worry that when they are finally developed if ever they will have to pay back million times as much as the browed;

 

it is true that aid money normally goes to the already rich people, but often there is a little spil over to the poor ones as well; the plan is they tell us that indenpendent organisations will take the money/aid over to countries that have a UN record of being the most corrupt in terms of aid work;

if this works them more aid will reach the poor people, but as a person who works for one of these organisations, i should say that they too only manage to take say maybe half of the money over, even less, by the time they have paid everyone and funds programmes, acess fees and many other things;

 

it is acknowldge that by large, cancellation will not largely affect the poor people in countries, but in the hoping that they may one day become a developed country, it will help them and will currentlty boost the countries economy;

 

maca salamah

[Lidia]

Africa seeks Economic growth and prosperity. So, Africa needs to promote economic development, emphasizing on industry over agriculture, economic self-sufficiency, government intervention and trade protectionism, manufacturing being the key here. The issue is not Aid, but rather debt relief and fair trade, for if Africa had both, they would not need handouts from DCs. In the Doha round for example, few African countries joined together in their opposition to US cotton subsidies and the WTO ruled in favor of these African countries. Although the US is defiant, this joint opposition was a good step for Africans and their struggle to attain fairer trade policies. Again to emphasize my point, Africa does not need aid but, rather they need fair trade and debt relief.

[shyhem]

^^^^

You up there,where the hell is Nova Scotia?

 

 

Back to the topic.........Why should anyone bail out Africa.If u owe credit card debt,do u ask u'r neighbour or american express to pay u'r debt?

Africans should take care of their countries or they should let others run the country for them.This is a dog eat dog world, and unless Africans understand that, nobody can help them.

[Caano Geel]

I agree with you, both

Org. mizz_S.lander

the plan is they tell us that indenpendent organisations will take the money/aid over to countries that have a UN record of being the most corrupt in terms of aid work

But i see two problems:

First, and the as you clearly state the problem is the government, but there are no incentives for the government to release the leashes on the idependent organisations. i.e. there was a case recently where Oxfam had to pay $1m (US) for duty on its aid vehicles in to the Srilankan government. Another example is the Angolan govenrment refusing to sign up to transaparant accounting practices for its oil dealing with major companies. Simply the backdoor is still open

 

 

Second, do you not think that aid distorts the local economy. FOr example food aid quickly makes its way to the free market severly undercutting local produce creating more poverty. Fiscal aid i imagine devalues the local currency by flooding it with a stronger foreing currency ... again creating inflation

 

Third, aid is driven by policy .. agreee or disagree with its a fact of life. i.e. on the condition you'll spend it buying stuff from us. I remeber seeing an interiew with a big-wig American bush advisor a few weeks ago saying that their aid has always been given to encourage and reward their friends, and they dont have the colonial guilt of the europeans. Therefore, for me at least it is difficult to imagine altuarism as a big enough incentive. Dont get me wrong i think it works in small scale i.e. u see people dying on tv screens and you reach deep into your pocket, but that only allevoites the current situation and does not tackle the underlying causes

 

And last, whats the objective of aid, who are we rewarding. Clearly its appealing for any goverment to get free cash. But its typically the worst off governments that need the aid, so i think you could argue that its a pervest incentive i.e. you obvioulsy dont care much for your population, abuse them some more and get rewarded for it.

 

But all of this depnds on a BIG problem for me, simply Who defines aid worthy#?! esecially when we're talking about non-relief aid.

 

 

Org. Lidia

The issue is not Aid, but rather debt relief and fair trade, for if Africa had both, they would not need handouts from DCs

Agreed, but how? when the system is effectively zero gain. i.e. some one has got to loose something for africa to gain. If you see it the market context, its in no ones interest. A few $million here and there is far far far less than the pain unemployment and lower standards in developed countries. One thing comes to minds here:

there is no reason to shift profitable markets, only those with a low marginal gain i.e. argiculture.

 

You can see this in the current tradewars between china a the eu for example, which is simply pissed off that the chine are trying to sell them the T-Shirts they used to sell. Or IT the sector moving to india, check out any big american geek site and you'll find a comment about an indian steeling a highly educated profesionals livelihood at a third the price.

 

This is a very bitter pill to swallow for any developed country and its in its interests to cull competition

 

p.s. Nova Scotia .... holy bannannas, i hadnt realsed we'd dispersed that far, how many of us skinies there?

 

Org. somalican

Africans should take care of their countries or they should let others run the country for them.This is a dog eat dog world, and unless Africans understand that, nobody can help them.

'fraid the problem is that africans do understand and try very very very hard, but lack the resources.

 

ap-o-l-o-gies for the rant

[shyhem]

Originally posted by Caano Geel:

the problem is that africans do understand and try very very very hard, but lack the resources.

 

ap-o-l-o-gies for the rant

I disagree with you.Hardwork is not avirtue Africans are familiar with.Have you ever heard of the saying "alazy man blames his tools".

That's exactly how i describe my African folks,they always convince themselves that "someone" is trying to put them down or stealing something from them.

 

As for resources, NO continent is richer than Africa,it's just that folks in Africa do not have the know how to exploit this abundant natural resources,mainly because they are not interested in discovering stuff their own way.

[Medley of extemporanea]

Why don't these damn loser africans solve their own problems and stop begging other people.

 

And the truth is anything that the cadaan give, they will give not because they want to help the africans but for ulterior motives aimed at achieving their own interests

[Final_Say]

salam all;

the thing to understand is; aid work's in funny ways, first of all, it is a short term means of helping the suffering, it does not help build a country, or stain its economy, but creates imbalance within the society;

 

i can't believe how ****** some people on SOL are, how they can sit in the foreign countries and then run their mouth up, with the white mentality of African this, African that, it makes me sick to see it coming from somali people, so heartless, so ****** , so small minded and such a hypocrisy;

how can you sit in ur house with your above average living standard and even pretend we know what goes on in africa; and say it is their fault, this that the other; there is the somalian saying that goes along the lines of; help the needed or don't add to injury by insulting them; i say help/ do what you can or shut up and mind your own business;

 

some things are beyond their control, there are different people, there are governments, and citizens with different ratio's of power, different resources and different abilities; the many african's who are in place of power, have money or education, are corrupt, or brain washed ****** people;

 

i don't apologies for upsetting anyone coz i hate small minded people, who give all mouth like they are better than the rest of the world;

 

 

peace

[Dhagax-Tuur]

And the truth is anything that the cadaan give, they will give not because they want to help the africans but for ulterior motives aimed at achieving their own interests

I couldn't agree with you more! There is no such thing as FREE lunch. When will Africa and much of the developing world learn this?

[Caano Geel]

Haniif

Why don't these damn loser africans solve their own problems and stop begging other people.

Waryaa soo adigana qaxooti maaden aheyn?

[Medley of extemporanea]

Caano Geel! LOL. Walaahi you broke it down. But that doesn’t change take away from my point that WE need to solve our own problems and stop living off of handouts from others.

[Paragon]

In a democratic African country, the desired outcome will be an interpendence between political leaders and the citizens. The citizen will 'elect' and pay taxes to the governments which politicians form, but only on one condition: satisfactory performace. If that satisfaction in performance is not achieved, the citizen will not at first elect that failed political leader, but if that leader persists in power, the citizen will not pay taxes. That means the politicians will always strife to perform better in order to be elected/re-elected, and the citizen will be oblijed to elect and pay taxes . The tax pays the politicians income and maintains his stay in the office.

 

However this process is turned upside down by aid. When the leader can get income in the form of aid, he wont find the need to 'perform' or serve the citizens well, even if the citizens fail to pay taxes. Aid replaces the democratic interdependency between the eleted and his electors. Usually if aid isn't available, the leaders are forced to make their citizens happy and enhance their local economies due leadership competition. So the whole country is benefited by such leadership competition and interaction between the leaders and their voters. It is a hard job but it works wonders. On the contrary aid cripples both the local politics and economics, because it does away with leader/citizen interaction and interdependence. Leaders are kept power by foreign aid but the citizens are left to suffer. Aid creates mysery and dependency.

[Faarax-Brawn]

^nicely Put adeer.

 

Hanif, the problem is that the VERY same problems that you said ‘are our own’ were caused by the colonialist and the industrialized nations.

Unfair trade agreements, [Why the hell would the price of coffee [or Cocoa] be regulated by a British firm?]

Unfair loan agreements.

High interest on the same loans

Selling of arms at low costs, thus causing conflicts [so that they could rip off the diamonds, cooper and gold] without being answerable to international courts.

Keeping corrupt regimes in power [Again to rip off lucrative contracts and natural resources].

The list is endless.

 

Sure Africans should be held responsible for they’re own problems. Just think of it as you.

When you came to QURBAHA, you had no idea what taxes, credit reports, credit cards were. As a result many of us [if not you personally but many AFRICANS] suffered very low credit ratings. Not because they cannot manage their monies, but there was no education, awareness and experience. The oldest African NATION, if you count the age by the post independence period, is not more than 50Years. That is literally a young continent.

 

This AID relief should help a lot!

[Miriam1]

Interesting how some posters here can throw out the advice...*work hard*, *solve your own problems* blah blah...Lidia WELL said...I dont believe many understand the workings of trade right now...Africa GETS NOTING, i dont think anyone understand how DEBT works...lets take for example...any random country within the continent..upto 45-50% of revenue from trade is use to pay of debt..and this isnt even the principal that is being paid of but the INTEREST!...right so wat are they suppose to do?...Not Pay ? Go Against the WORLD BANK..and THE IMF?...how is that possible when the countries are ruled by weak leaders..why weak leaders..because the people are uninformed..no communication..lack of awarness to thier rights..leads to a general inability to excerise the politcal will....The G8 summit to me looks like the Royalty coming for a dinner meet..and by some chance..dicussing how the peasents should be rewarded for thier hard work..* A few pennies for africa*

The Latin American Model should be followed.I believe soon, Africa will follow, by creating a strong front against trade aggressions by the North.

 

Direct response Caano Geel's Post...

 

1)

A)It should be canncelled..due to the simple reason that almost every country in African as already paid its principle loan and 20 times over due to psychotic interest/short term loans of 5 yrs or less..

 

B)Transparant accountability will occur..do not underestimate African governments..once the money that is being wasted on repayment of loans can be used to fund social initiatives...we have to understand also..that most of the crumbling..health system/social structure..is due to the years of decentrilization that were "pushed" on many African countries by the World Bank and IMF with thier structural Adjustment programme...the North should also stop messing with political atmosphere of many of these nations.. I am sure..everyone is aware of the history the United States/ Britain has with African politics.

 

2- NGO's do alot..aslong as they are not there to undermind the governace of a democratically elected government...I dont support Aid...in the sense..of never ending cash flow of money with conditionailites that undermine goverments..we should be aware that Foreign agencies and Countries dont give African countries money like Candy....there are conditions and rules attached to every Aid package..* YOU DO THIS..and WE WILL GIVE YOU THIS MUUUCH*..trade/economic adjustments and so on.....the list continues....this at the end of the day weakens a goverment..introduces corruption..and undermines the people's political power!

 

3) what should be done?

The North should take its sticky hands away from Africa's Honey pot..seriously...thats the only solution..if that will happen..Allah (SWT) only knowns..but no amount of TONY BLAIRS whining about African aid..will help...its all a PR stunt..END DEBT, FAIR TRADE, POLITICAL DISASOCIATION..

 

 

POWER TO THE SOUTH....and seriously...to the likes who dare to call their own people *lazy*...pick a book (preferably by a fellow african)...read...learn...be open minded!

[Medley of extemporanea]

Originally posted by Zumurrud:

3) what should be done?

The North should take its sticky hands away from Africa's Honey pot..seriously...thats the only solution..if that will happen..Allah (SWT) only knowns..but no amount of TONY BLAIRS whining about African aid..will help...its all a PR stunt..END DEBT, FAIR TRADE, POLITICAL DISASOCIATION..

 

This is precisely what I am talking about! Look at Zumurrud points on what should be done to rectify the problem!

 

The north (cadaan) should end debt! The north should institute fair trade! The north should disassociate it’s self from the internal politics of africa countries!

 

The north the north the north!

 

I believe the solutions to our problems don’t lie with the north! There is nothing that the cadaan can do to help us. There is nothing the cadaan will do to help us. Nothing. This is because it is in their interest to keep us in debt. It’s in their interests to have trade policies that benefit them at our cost. It’s in their interests to interfere with the development of our politics and destabilize our countries.

 

So why should we expect them to change that???? Fact is they will not change it. It’s naïve to expect them to change their policies on moral grounds and folly to expect them to change policies on economic and political grounds because these policies are to their political and economic advantage.

 

The solutions of our problems lie not with the cadaan, but with us.

 

Let’s stop thinking and talking about what they should do and start thinking about what we MUST do to rectify our situations!