Toward Consensualist Somalism?

[Baashi]

^Sweeping generalization continues...

 

One is either Somali or one is not. Period! Regardless where one was born, one is still Somali by ethnicity if one’s biological parents were Somali. Sujuis, for instance, are Kenyan by citizenship (here is where the consent and all the legalese that it entails comes in) but they are not Masia, Lamu, Kalinjini, or what have you. They will always be Somalis!

 

I’m not sure where you are going with this “consensual†thing. The word “consensual†implies mutual agreement between two parties. Who is one giving one’s assent to? You see being Somali means being member of distinct ethnic group and I don’t see what consent got to do with belonging to the group.

 

Embracing your cultural identity is different matter altogether. From cultural point of view (as opposed to ethnic identity), Somalis as a group have common habits, common set of norms, and characteristics that is different from other cultures. Each of us as an individual has total discretion to embrace some or all of Somali culture. It’s individual choice not consent mind you!

 

Will be back...

[checkmate]

Excellent topic Jamaal!

 

Though i agree with baashi as to where the term "consent" is used. I would like to approach if I may that’s with the understanding of your question. An individual is more than a mere biological organism which comes into being through procreation and carries with it certain fundamental biological traits. True enough, the biological characteristics form the bases upon which the personality is predicated. The organism at the outset consists, as we have seen, of physical structures and functions operating at a biological level. The content of one’s reaction increases through the participation of one’s social environments/life. That is to say, there is no really human and social behavior without interaction of members of various groups. This participation begins at birth and continues till death. All in all what am trying to say is wouldn’t that objective itself be culture conditioning, biological conditioning and social conditioning with or without consensual arrangements? Identity change doesn't come priceless huh.

 

 

asxantu

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by J'maal11:

consensualist Somalism being a level high than biological Somalism will accommodate the Muwalad, the Somali suji and the less diversified Somali

.

Like Baashi I have no beef with Sijuis at all, in fact I've gone as far as claiming my mate Abuubakar from Chad as part of the clique. I, however apply the same rule the other way round, one does not become Somali just because they were born and lived in Somalia. Just like the Sujui, it's matter of citizenship and that's as far as I can sincerely 'accommodate'. In the mean time, I'll try to keep an open mind to opposing views.

 

I don't really understand how 'consensual Somali' works, is it something one chooses to become or is it what other consider you to be? Can you quit or resign if fed up with it?

[Paragon]

^^^ It is something you choose to elevate yourself to.

 

Brother Caamir I think there is some truth to doubting the abilities of individuals (under the psychological pressure of the supposed culture) and how they can break off from the fetters of contrains to reassert their identities. I also concur with you that we need instititional safe-guards and help, also as I said in an earlier post, a framework that accomodates all future consensualists.

 

However, in a general context, my firm belief is that the aforementioned culture is to begin with a superficial one, in that its existence is dependent on clans rather than it being a general culture common to all Somalis. Each Somali clan claims to posses its own clanly identity for the individuals that it ecompases. So because that identity that usually springs from the clan is usually primitive, it can be confined the realms of animalism. Put it another way, all animalistic identities being biological in nature, cannot go beyond the physicalness or description of what is identified. [This is a short note to Baashi and others too ]

 

Say Physicalness and Biological (Body) identity is referred to as: P and B

 

Say clan identities are referred to as Y...

Say Conceptions and consent (Mind) are reffered to as: C

 

Then what would be the equation of X's identity? 1 or 2 levels of identity?

 

First Level.............

1 - (P+B) + Y = X

 

Second Level..........

2 -(P+B)+Y+c = X

 

So as you can see X's other identities were not changed or altered, but only elevated from what it was by additing another level - level c. The first level of X's identity is both biological+physical and clanish, and the second level is all the above plus Consent.

 

What is consented to is not another club, group or society as I said before, but rather to a Somalism that is based on the very fact of taking Somaliness not as given, but accepted consensually and seriously. Only when one individuals say "Yes! I wish and Consent to Somaliness that is based conceptions that I've helped construct" and that " I want to be part of Somaliness where decisions of deadmen are discarded and new relevant ones constituted by those living and concerned", can an indentity constitute consensualism.

 

The whole idea of consensualist Somalism is not to reject other Somalis! No, that is not it, BUT ITS ABOUT GIVING SOMALIS A CONTROL OVER THEIR MATTERS INDIVIDUALLY. In the end product, the hope is to create an environment where the consents of the individuals rein above the constraints of irrelevant Somaliness that stems from ethnicness. Where the individual will judge and manage his/her life humanly rather than be animalisticaly a sheep among many.

 

Wind-Talker and Viking, on the issue of marriage delay, I think Viking made me realise the significance of marriage in order to avoid sins, while at the same time applying the delay at fathering or mothering children. Viking thats a point well taken. I wish to go into this, in order to give you my reasons for prefering a delay of marriage (with or without children) but because of the way you put it, I think I will settle with that.

 

On another note, the roles in the marriage and the gender expectations are crucial to understanding the irrationality of what we hold as culture and tradition. There are grave cultural collousness evident in the most important and basic compenent of society itlsef, the blue-print of its constructs - the family. Husbands and Wives must start to question whether the so-called culture or tradition is detrimental or advantagious to their precious marriage.

 

If the culture conflicts with a morally justified individual or family need, then, it must be altered or updated to suit the present need. If it cannot be updated due to its awkward disposition, it shall then be done away with, all-together. Bear in mind that all of what is called Somali culture, when in the context of modern family life, can safely be regarded as the workings of half-baked minds.

 

Wind-Talker, I think the delay in marriages can within 2 or 3 generations off-set the current trend that is damaging what is left of biological Somaliness. There are accumulative efforts in the old system of matrimony, and its immediate effects are coming through in the form of divorce and single parent phenemenon.

 

The increase of divorce and single parents are fresh but think of the children growing up in these desolved families? 20 years from now, you will be faced with children that are almost asocial, meaning not even subject to biological Somaliness. To avoid such outcomes, the preparations must include a delay and clear, informed planning from the part of future husbands and wives.

 

The delay saves time, effort and money. When these things are in the right balance, the marriage produced will not only stop asocial outcomes, but swiftly shift the plight of children from dependency to independency. Today, many schoolkids are suffering cos' their parents use their child support for other vital purposes. This impoverishes both the children and the parents, making the family structure shaky and weaker.

 

Ameenah, , I am glad that we are arguing from the same position. Just as you mentioned, I believe identities of today to be given and that people role-play to social expectations. Even as we speak in this topic, I can sense that there are some of us who cannot concieve identities that are beyond the assigned or biologically determined ones. I believe identities should be allowed to be formed by those they affect most and not enforced on them. So yes, we're talking about the same thing. One's own consent to be identified or not identified in certain ways.

 

The agreement to becoming a Somali over all other identities, (because the agreement is from your own consent) and bledging undying loyalty to its wellfare, is what it means to be a consensualist. In other words, it is elevating one's self above other identities that are imposed to find one that allows choice to make effective and relevant decisions about one's life and about one's own society. No more following or taking things are given.

 

(edit)CHECKMATE, sxb I couldn't have said it better. Thank you bro.

[Paragon]

AYOUB, lol I think if you go to Southall, you might find me preaching the concept like a sermon . Consensualist Somalis...like us or rather me... are in high demand. For varying purposes ofcourse, exorcizing the clan-possesed and other sensitive activities ...

 

PS: Hopefully, after I rant more and more you might get gist of my ideas sxb. Otherwise it is just toying with new ideas that might at seem inchoherant.

[checkmate]

^^^Tuujiye says ur Wlc sxb :confused: :confused:

 

 

asxantu

[Paragon]

^^^ Waryaa sxb xaal qaado, sabeen baan kugu xiray ninyow. I tend to confuse nicks of nomads.

 

PS: Checkmate, I remember one time when I confused Ayoub with another nomad and how he got bemused . For me, the avaters trick me. Waa waxan loo noqon doonin.

[Sincere]

Brother Caamir I think there is some truth to doubting the abilities for individuals (under psychological supposed) culture can break the fetters of contrains and reassert their identities. I also concur with you that we needs instititional safe-guards and help, and as I said in an earlier post, a framework that accomodates all future consensualists

First Level.............

1 - (P+B) + Y = X

 

Second Level..........

2 -(P+B)+Y+c = X

 

 

Interesting formula which I think has potential to be very combustible. Factors "y" and "c" in the equation together, can lead to a conflict of interest.(of course,based solely on individual merit) The coexistence of contradictory ideas,attitudes and emotions is the breeding grounds for behavioral disorders (psychopathology) why not eradicate "y" altogether from the 2nd equation and replace it with "c"? Granted, clan identities is intricately wooven into our culture,language, and history, but is it even worth a grain of salt when it has inexorably lead us to anarchy and all its attendant barbarities?

 

I like the nom de guerre "somali Consensualist" I will use it when the ever so frequent and irritating question "war ya tahay" arises.

[Paragon]

^^^ Lol@war yaa tahay!

 

Discreet, I imagine there will be extreme reactions that would ensue the exclusion of factor Y from the equation. Just as it is, some nomads seem irritated at the formula, so we can't risk a joint attack from the followers of factor Y. C is currently an infant and fragile to withstand the ruthlessness by which 'y'ers' ravage each other . The best move, I thought, would be to suppress 'y'ness' to the animalistic realm, which may inturn highlight its undesirability to those who hold it dear.

 

PS: Consensualist Somalism; what better way to describe one's self.

[Blessed]

Baashe,

 

You've lost me my dear, on one hand you reprimand me for making sweeping generalisation and then state that we have shared habits and characteristics. Hilaacyada bari laiskuma helo huuno, what is your take?

 

I was referring to the cultural / social aspect of our society. I wouldn’t dream of resigning from the Horn ethnically (maan waashey?).

 

J11 has already clarified my position. As a Somali one is subjected constant dictation from others- particularly the elders in our society.

 

As a community we have very rigid ideals of what it is to be Somali, what beliefs a Somali should have. You might say that every society has this. But , it seems that ours takes great effort in imposing those ideals on the youth.

 

I'm not against it totally, as some of those ideals are based on religion and a positive value base. But in more ways than one, the manner inwhich it's passed on creates as stated, identity issues and curbs individual development…I mean whose life is it anyway? The individuals or society?

[Sincere]

Jamaal,makes sense "y"eers will tear "c" apart limb by limb. The savages!

Saxib, I implore you to read this Novel which so perfectly depicts the “cattle mentality†Based on a true story, it’s a short read but very worthwhile narration. Here’s a brief review.

 

The Wave was a well-written and extremely informative study in the pressures of society, and the effects of deindividuation on a person, or, in this case, a school. What we learn while reading it is just how easy it is to be caught up in the 'cattle mentality' (to stop thinking for ourselves and mearly follow along with what those around us are doing).

The somewhat frightening aspect of the book is the fact that some of the waves basic principles seem to be extreamly good logic; yet only too easily can good ideas turn astray. This book is a great read, and I would strongly recommend it to anyone remotely interested in Social Psychology.

[raula]

I have written this piece to clarify my objection to the title “consensualistic somalism†or something along those lines not on the peripheral matters of Somali identities.

 

I cannot elaborate (too busy currently-but couldn’t pass without a word) much on this issue but I do not believe human beings can come to static, homogeneous thinking capabilities, nationality, and sociocultural-homogeneity let alone Somalis. Simply because we have difference; and not only are they shaped by our genetics, but as well altered by behavioral (environmental) dynamics. In contemporary society, individuals have the autonomy over identifying with the “outside,†however, much of their accepted wisdom is greatly influenced by ‘organic’ (already established) principles-as in religion (if what one considers “natural right†or pre-ordained rights synchronize with their beliefs) and hereditary. My point Jamaal, every individual has consented to some sort of belief, existence, policy, rule, etc; but the real question should perhaps ask about “COERCIONâ€-can every Somali (proven to have ancestral linkage to Somalis) be “coerced†into identifying themselves to the common linkage(as in Somali-weyn)?

 

As some have mentioned already, you can never change a person’s nationality, some even claim ethnicity as not being Somali merely due to being born outside of Somalia-but can you be “solicited†into identifying with Somalis irrespective of your nationality/background/etc.

 

A recurrent thought that circulates in my psyche is that many Somalis have been “consented†into being homogeneous with Somali-weyn (sijuis, Bantus, minorities etc). We are forced into becoming consensual with our fellow Somalis born and raised in Somalia-why? When some do not even have the characteristics? (as in the Chad man mentioned by AYOUB). Clearly, the rule of thumb-Somalis will always be Somalis need to be revised (even real native Somalis aren’t all homogeneous).

 

In a nut shell Jamaal you ask“can an indentity constitute consensualismâ€-I say NO it will never –Although “corcercion†of somali-weyn to unleashing their “soul-force†with legitimate and feasible strategic planning to better Somalia’s socio-economic and political philosophies can be attained if no force is utilized. Although one could claim on the other hand that coercion can be a form of passive consent. Soliciting 'other' somalis into rebuilding somalia can be "passively consented" if they identify with somali-weyn regardless of nationality or background, but active consenting will never be attained.

[Baashi]

Ameenah, my take on Jamal’s consensual identity is simple. Ethnicity (being Somali in our case) needs no consent. One is either Somali, as I said it before, or one is not. From what I gather, you guys are talking about culture and all its normal manifestations in the way of social norms and habits. Somali culture, as any other culture, has its share of rigid norms. You would agree, I’m sure, that any culture when is taken in its totality is like a wrapped package where all kinds of proposition values are stored. Some of these values reflect the mode in which that particular’s society is organized.

 

Ours (in my understanding) is a collectivist culture. The Jamal’s contention (the way I read it) that Somalis tend to derive their self-worth from groups they belong to is a fair assessment. That’s not a negative characteristic in my view! And I strongly object the “animalistic†label Jamal so eagerly throw at us Somalis.

 

I can understand where his frustrations stem from. Today Somalis are textbook example of failed people. Somalis failed to solve and put to an end their political quarrels and sporadic civil wars. Yes, there are pockets of success (relative to other anarchic areas of the country) but Somalia, as we knew it is a failure state.

 

Now, what my good friend Jamal and others who agreed with him are neglecting to take into the account is the fact that there are many factors, domestic and foreign, that has contributed to the demise of Somalis. Leadership, incompatible foreign ideology, regional tension with constant proxy wars, tribal sensibilities, and unfair and corrupt political power-sharing scheme are part of the equation that led us to where we are today.

 

I wouldn’t be so quick to call our values and heritage “animalisticâ€! One has to see the bride side of the things all Somali. Like other collectivist cultures such as Japanese, we value honest, trustworthiness, generosity (that’s what saved Somalia from literal starvation), sensitivity - all characteristics that are helpful to people working in groups. Even the West (an idividualistic culture) learn one or two from Japan, teamwork being one of them. We Somalis also exhibit individualistic culture characteristics that are helpful for competing. Self-confidence, pride (yes sometimes foolish pride but pride nevertheless), assertiveness, and strong sense of entrepreneurship are known Somali characteristics. With the good there is a bad side too! We Somalis tend to think in groups in the politics realm. “Group-thinkâ€, clan-minded, fear of rejection and blind allegiance to clan leaders is one factor out of many that fuelled the civil war.

 

Having said that, one has to understand that each and every of us is free to embrace whatever one deems to be the right behavior (what it is right/wrong behavior is another matter and frankly there is a role for the culture (religion) to outline the permissible border). When one does go out of one’s way and deviates what the culture dictates to be the norm, one is not “unbecoming†Somali as far as ethnicity is concerned but one is challenging the proposition value of the said norm! This happens in every culture!!!! The reason why Ameenah says that our culture is rigid is because ours explicitly oppose the “other†alien intruding or even corrupting cultures. Since our present day generation have no institutions that preserve the “irreducible specifity†of Somali culture, our elders have no other recourse but to shout and shame those who openly embrace the “otherâ€. Not an effective way to preserve community values!

 

Remember each and every culture in planet earth positions itself as the one having the “universal values†and if the present prevailing political events are to be used as an example the West sees itself in a mission of “civilizing†the “otherâ€. Our challenge is how to embrace technology and other benefits of modernity without completely abandoning our Islamic universal values. Not an easy task!!!

 

Raali ahaada waan ku dheeraaday e.

[Paragon]

^^^^ Baashi sxb, you are still speaking of 'biological' identities and the cultures that are formed as a result of their interactions. I called these biological identities 'animalistic', for the simple fact that they are reliant on animalistic reproductions. The way a mother feeds her child will, over the time, become known as a 'tradition', while at the same time, a father treatment of his kids may be called 'culture'. There is nothing magical about the so-called 'values' and 'cultures' of ours. So far, what we call ours (our culture, our traditional values) is nothing more than those animalistic tendencies I have spoken of . If we were plants, then I would've used the term 'plantist' to describe our identity. However, once we start the involvement of consent and reason in our interactions, only then will an interaction be non-animalistic.

 

The other thing which you and raula seem to talk about is collectiveness of cultures and the whole lot, but I am not. My interests are with the self of the individual and its elevation to a higher level. The shallowness of talking about culture or values is that such talk does not focus on a rigid subject, rather it focuses on vague things such as 'society', and thus blindly keeps old fallacies alive. It is for that reason that I advocate for individual consent. Atleast the individual is a rigid subject to which changes and elevations could be directed. Only after concentrating on the consent of the individual can the talk of 'society' be near valid.

 

PS: We do we have to refuse to question what our individualness is made up off? What is the big secret behind being over protective about of our own selves? Who benefits from these over-protections?

[Som@li]

Nice topic,,why instead of taking totally another root,try to solve our problems thru our culture. As Baashe put it there are many factors which put somalis in the current situation,

 

all thse equations,Consensualist Somalism, and new ways of lifes won't change the somalis, the only thing that would work is to shape up what we got, and steer it into right direction.