Toward Consensualist Somalism?

[Paragon]

^^^ lol The title speaks volumes. 'Consensualism'....not steering, not leaving, and not denying 'ethnic' somali identities, but only elevating individuals through consent.

 

Moreover, to say solve cultural problems with culture itself, is khalad, khalad ku sax . No hope there. And to say, there are 'other' factors that are external and internal, is to deflect and blur 'ANY' focuss a social scientist may wish to place upon the root cause of problems.

 

PS: Again, lets talk about individuals not their faulty interactions only. Faults are not inherent in the culture, but they are induced by the faulty charactor of the individuals that create it.

[Baashi]

Mr social scientist

 

Jamaal11 sxb forgive me for being repetitive here but “consent†can be viewed as an assent given by one to another noh? So who the individual is giving his assent to? What is it this consent should consist of? Is it declaration by the individual to himself, to another person, like-minded group, or to an authority?

 

Btw, individuals don’t live in a vacuum! The society is made of individuals and hence it is an extension of the individual! May I remind you that Somalis are Muslim and the individual Somali as a Muslim derive much of his/her identity and behavior from religion.

[Sincere]

I am under the impression that its a state of mind; cognitive state that is reached by an individual, not a pledge to a distinctive character, or collective entity for that matter.

[Paragon]

^^^ Thank you very much Discreet. I hope that would help my good friend understand what I am ranting about .

 

Baashi, the 'assent' is given by the individual, to his own very self, in order to become a consentor to a high level of mental beingness, of which 'animalistic' somaliness hasn't yet reached. And Baashi lol I am no social scientist , but working towards politics future .

 

Ameenah, sister thank you for your contribution. I think brother Baashi thought you were generalising, just as he thought my reference to our current identity as 'animalistic' was unacceptable. But as I undersrand it, my friend Baashi is carrying on that defensive shield that holds at bay attacks at Somaliness . Though the fact is that, we're not at all attacking, because we (though Baashi seems more somali than us ) are only trying to narrow the focus of discusion in order to get coherent subject to concentrate on.

 

PS: Discreet, thank you for the link of 'The Wave'. I have read the few sample pages and it seems very interesting. The history teacher and his experimental Nazi drill that got out of hand. Thanks again.

[Baashi]

^ I'm the great defender of Somalis from overexagiration and sweeping generalization...not bad at all

 

Very well Jamaal. As Bro Discreet put it, it's a state of mind! I assume the consent is state of mind in which Jamaal sits down somewhere in London and ponders and ponders in seclusion and examiness all that is wrong with the "Somaliness" and boom he recieves an epiphany!

 

On a serious note, I do understand where you are coming from sxb. If I'm not mistaken you are saying our problems as Somalis are deeply rooted in our understanding as who we are and when and where our individual interest intersect with those of our clan/region. From that prespective, you are urging us to re-examine how we view ourselves!

 

At this point I can only ask you, as your cyber buddy, to reconsider the "animalistic" label, it is bit extreme! Just doing my job...the great public defender

 

Will come back some other time...carry on sxb.

[Paragon]

^^^ Ok, how about the beast activists instead?

 

Now my dear friend, lets both be happy Somali consensualist activists, as opposed to the other one . The beastie kind are not worth entertainig, if you know what I mean .

 

PS: Beast activists may include anyone who blindly follows other men's ideas without questioning. The non-thinkers .

[Sincere]

YVW Jamaal, the underlying message in that book is very powerfull,fadlan make a note to read it, and trust me you wont be dissapointed.

[Baashi]

No to "labeling" excersise Jamaal. It won't do any good sxb. You can consider yourself an "enlightened" consensualist Somali and take up this "civilizing" mission for the "primitive" Somalis all you want. At the end of the day, all you are doing is losing touch with the actualities on the ground.

 

Don't get me wrong sxb here! I've come to terms with one real fact and that is that Somalis back home practice tribalism knowingly and willfully (unknowingly in some cases). That being the case, how can something so ingrained in the fabric of the society be dismissed and put aside. The only sensible thing to do, in my humble opinion, is to acknowledge it and minimized to its bones stripping from all its meat and fat. How? That I don't know! What I do know is dictating sermons from your high horse won't cut it and...never has.

 

It has been said that social engineering and policy intiatives aimed at polities take time, resources, and media campaign. Think tanks, publications, school curriculums, effective media programs, and sensible political platforms all in sync in intent and implementation is the way public perception are changed. At this juncture, law and order is the first business in order. Once the government is reinstituted and leadership credibility hve been restored then and only then do you have a shot in engaging the civic activities (in back home) you have in mind.

 

Before I end my rumble here let me remind you that the Diaspora is the very gasoline that fuels the political wrangling abck home. I know for a fact that some of the well educated professionals do take part of the partisan political contests at home. They write essays, memorandums, articles, propaganda (for media consupmtion), and correspondences (to governments around the world and other powerful organizations) all rooting for their clan wishing to outdo the other supposedly "enemy" clan. This is where we find ourselves in sxb.

 

It's commendable that you find disgusting what transpires back home (politically) but I don't agree with the proposition of puting down all Somalis and their Somaliness by taking the "reductive" approach where one thinks one is doing service by, in essence, reducing the whole essence of being Somali to being "animalistic".

 

I find "Ikhwaans" attitude to be effective. Their approach to the problems both at home and in abroad is working. They help orphans, widows, and other lowly helpless segment of society regardless of their clan affiliation. They are known to build clinics, collect "qaraan" called sadaqa from the well-off "ikhwaans" and redistribute back to the needy. They operate schools in every region...what they teach is another matter. It's no accident that almost all Somali women are wearing Hijab with no one forcing them to do so. Their message is getting through and part of that message is condemnation and promise for eternal hell for all those who embrace the outdated "clannish" myths. It's no accident that the trustworthy one are "ikhwaan"...they dominate in the business sector and they rarely die for clannish causes. What I'm getting at is they manage to rally around for a cause with no caln as the unifying bind that holds their effort together.

 

I can't say the same about Diaspora nor do I know for that matter an organization that takes a genuine interest in all Somalis without clannish or regional litmus test.

 

Plz excuse incoherent ramble...try to make sense of it. I don't have time to reread and edit this one.

[Sincere]

Saxib bashi, I agree the tags do sound offensive but "animalistic" and "beast" used in this context are merely idiomatic expressions, and verily defination should not be inferred from the true meaning of the words.

 

Jamaal said and I quote "Beast activists may include anyone who blindly follows other men's ideas without questioning. The non-thinkers."

 

If the labelling is used to describe the trait in the above context,im all for it. If not, then im lost.

 

Moving on Baashi you say,

That being the case, how can something so ingrained in the fabric of the society be dismissed and put aside. The only sensible thing to do, in my humble opinion, is to acknowledge it and minimized to its bones stripping from all its meat and fat

 

The question I asked in my initial response still stands, is it worth a grain of salt? I admit it might be a tad bit far fetched to dismiss/discard of it completley, but why even further entertain this parochial mentality which we all know is fundamentally defective. (14+ years of anarchy should be enough to justify my inference) Do I have a method to dismiss it? No,I dont, but that doesnt mean I have to accept or acknowledge it.

 

The highlighted portion of your quote caught my eye. What exactley do you mean by acknowledging it and minimizing it to its bones?

 

P.s. The Ikhwaan approach appears to be the only viable solution.

[Baashi]

Discreet,

You would agree, I’m sure, that in order to solve a problem one has to know the nature and the extent of the problem. Once the problem is defined, it would be easy to plan an elaborate scheme to solve it. In my profession, we often use industry jargons to characterize different diagnosis. Debugging, elimination technique, and root-cause analysis are the most popular ones. Only the later is the in-depth investigative work that identifies the problem completely. The first phase of undertaking what bro Jamal has in mind is identification process. Finding remedy is the second phase and so on…

 

Now, why would I bring something akin to textbook narrative or work procedures to the discussion! Bear with me bro Discreet, I’m onto something here. You asked, “ but why even further entertain this parochial mentality which we all know is fundamentally defective. (14+ years of anarchy should be enough to justify my inference). What are we talking about here? No one in his right mind wants to entertain such mentality! You also asked if “tribalism†is worth a grain of salt! The answer is obvious! No

 

I sense confusion in your part sxb. Let’s first employ the above analogy. We got a problem. Naturally, we would want to know if this is an isolated problem or if it is “system-wide†problem. If the problem is one that affects the whole system, then assessment phase kicks in. Is the system salvageable? If yes then the question becomes whether all features and capabilities of the system can be restored instantly or gradual recovery is the only remedy. If not then one accepts the outcome of the root-cause analysis and moves on...

 

This method is through, meticulous, and objective. One is not merely “entertainingâ€, endorsing, or propagating the problem but rather trying to figure it out its nature and its extent in order to get rid of it. When I say acknowledge “itâ€, I mean just that: acknowledge the reality on the ground, the fact that tribalism is a reality and a societal problem that needs to be confronted.

 

Now the question is not whether the problem is worth a grain of salt to paraphrase your concern here rather is how best could one face up this enormous challenge. To find a solution one has to know the problem first. Once one finds the problem one has no choice but to acknowledge it as a problem in need of fixing! The only alternative to that is a denial!

 

With that background, let me move onto the crux of the matter. It’s my belief and has been sometimes now that negative tribalism is our main problem and other political problems are secondary to this one. It wreaks havoc through the whole system from governmental institutions to the very foundation of the state (think of where one’s loyalty lies clan or the state). Its tentacles are deep and its hold over the political discourses is far-reaching. Any corrective action (even though I think is a huge challenge) will take a long time and it won’t be possible to eradicate at one go. The recovery will more likely be gradual one.

 

Having said that, one should be careful in confusing tribe with “tribalism†as the first is the building bloc into which Somali nation is organized; the other is crook’s trade: nepotism, favoritism, entitlements based on blood rather than merit, etc. We have this discussion before and I’d realized that many nomads disagree with me on this. In any event, it is in this context that I said “acknowledge it and minimized to its bones stripping from all its meat and fatâ€. As you might have correctly guessed “bones†I meant the identity part which is being from particular clan. I say this not because I want to preserve the identity part but because I think it is impractical and honestly futile exercise to try to erase one’s identity.

 

Finally let me come back to the characterization point. I don’t recall now but I’ve once read somewhere that the Chinese have this proverb: the beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right name. In other words it is just another way of saying what the popular cliché iplies: call spade a spade! Again one more time these labels are not the right labels sxbyaal.

 

PS> I like the signature...it's deep sxb.

[xiinfaniin]

Right on, Baashi.

 

I would add that negative tribalism is an old plague that has been around for many millennia. It’s not unique to the Somali society and had been successfully addressed by Islam. The Ikhwan approach is suitably the way to go as it imitates, though ever remotely, the tested and verified remedy for this social illness.

[lol]

Jamal: Walaalkiis, I don’t think a Muslim can ever dare to alleviate himself or herself from the laws put forth by Islam. And make up an identity that is adjacent to the one Allah has assigned. Most of the characteristics of the Somali culture or behaves as we know them have been derived from Islamic views (although they have been altered to suit the wants and needs of the society in general).

 

Yes Islam gave us the power to consent to things we want and don’t want, but it has also assigned us a code thru which a Muslim lives his life…. If we adopt this theory of urs don’t u think we will distant ourselves from the path to Heaven? What separates us from the Kufars u see around u, is our behaviors and how we carry ourselves. To some it may seem dictatorship but we all know better. It’s our identity.

 

You can ofcourse say no to many of the things that conflict your religion, or even your conscious. If u really look closely u will c that, there are valid reasons as to why we are told to behave as such. U can certainly develop your own identity but it has to be in accordance with Islam.

 

Nonetheless, I really liked ur arguments. Thnx

[Paragon]

^^^ Thank you for siding with Baashi . It helps .

 

Baashi haduu xaal i saaran yahay, about the terming, gather the elders .

 

I will be back for you.

[lol]

^^ Didn't know it was a crime to contradict you Jamall.... since when did u become to ego-centric.... ?? just kidding.. Budhka gees iska dhig plzzzz.... Well I really didn't read anyone's response coz they r too much...so i just wrote wat I thought.........and if I agreed with Baashi.......WAY TO GO BROTHA!

[Paragon]

Hibo, no you don't have to agree with me. But to disagree with me, You (Baash and few others) must understand the concept I am advocating . If that is the case, then I would be a happy man .