Toward Consensualist Somalism?

[Paragon]

Toward Consensualist Somalism? (Mind You: This is a lighthearted topic). And I have some rather simple quesions, which are:

• Can an individual (by the assistance of consent) rise above 'animalistic' (biological) kind of identity? Or can what is now mistakenly called the 'Somali Self' form 'an identity' through the employment of consent? I've asked the last question because I am yet unaware of any 'formed' identity by a Somali, which is beyond biological.
• Can you, as an individual, after thinking rationally of social, clan and familial relations, develop an independent identity that is purely consensual, that no longer adheres to biological/animalistic lineage but rather on own consent?

What are 'YOUR' (individual and consensual) thoughts on these questions?

 

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PS: For the interest of this topic, I would like to delinate two types of identity, which are:

 

1 - Animalistic identity and Human identity. By using the term animalistic identity, I will refer to biologically determined identity. This follows the reasoning that the identities of the monkey, the cat or the dog are countable as animalistic since, in the absence of 'rational' faculty, their identities are less likely to be altered. Therefore their identity, without the endowment of 'consent' is biological thus will remain animalistic. Only through consent can another identity be formed or attained.

 

2 - Human identities are those which consent (arising from the endowment of rationality in one) plays the greatest role. The best exemplar of these identities is the identity created when a man and a woman agree to be in marriage, resulting in a 'Wife' and 'Husband' identities. Which means marriage creates an identity that is in most cases dependent on consent. If consent is absent then neither will there be a wife nor a husband, but an enslavement of one against (her) consent. I will not go further into it because I think you got the reasoning behid it.

 

What this means is that biological identities are not unique to humans, but to all things - living or dead. All things retain such identities and as has been said before (by people I like to call consensual Somalis) that "Geed Weliba Dhacaankiisuu Dhalaa" . In English that would convey the message conveyed by the say "A chop off the old block". A testification that biological identities are unchanging and mutual to all things - plants included .

 

What then separates the identity of the 'Thinking Being' (aka Human) from all other animals who are boastful of biological identity? In layman terms, it is the 'thoughts' which humans are capable of producing, which have in them many useful ingredients; among them something (unknown to us) that is called 'Consent'.

 

Consent allows the human the 'right' to accept, refuse, choose, adopt or even 'form' stronger individuality that is capable of asking, critically: Apart from being biologically what I already am, what do I want to become? I and I and I and I is the key to freedom of thought. Me and Me and Me is biological and to a greater extent a constructed by social influences.

[Haashim]

Can you as an individual, after thinking rationally of social, clan and familial relations, develop an idependent identity that is purely consensual, that no longer adheres to biological/animalistic lineage but rather on your own consent?

Jamal Sxb. this is very difficult question.

 

In our EASTERN culture it is very difficult to create your own identity without, at least, lending some powers or weaknesses from your biological lineage. even if you insist that you want to develop your own identity without deriving anything from your lineage, nobody would believe you. therefore I think it's more to do with the society than to individuals since we brought up this dependecy (theory).

[Paragon]

^^^ It is exactly this sort of society from which I seek elevation sxb. The formation of consensualist individual identity is antonymous to what is socially held as 'given' or granted. Of course there are certain weaknesses involved in developing consensualist individualist identities. These weaknesses/risks are more likely to come as attacks from those whose economic (social) or political gains is interwoven with the very un-questioning of social collectiveness. Collective societies are usually arrangements established to benefit one group (individuals at top) and deprive the individuals (the component of 'benefiting-to-some' societal collectiveness). So to curtail such individual deprivation, consensualism from the part of the conscious individual can induce in any social 'accountability and assured loyalty'.

 

The problem of being part of a collective entity is that the members are neither questioned nor assigned a clear role to play. They all play the same role thus leading to the creation of confusion. I am not of the view that consensualist approach assigns roles forcefully, but it does assign roles all in accord with the individual's consent. If he/she wishes a different role then he shall choose whichever role pleases him/her. However, the option to play or not to belong to a consensualist society is also there.

 

So Muraad, the whole idea is to develop identities that are based on consent not ones thrown at one by the society. The desired result is the creation a group of people who are all consensualists, so that in the event of a consensualist Somali becoming disowned, ofcourse by the animalistic Somalism that prevails, then he/she can comfortable be among his fellow rational consensualist Somalis .

 

PS: This approach holds great promises in leaving behind prejudices based on biological lineages and discriminations based on ethnicity. This is a process of elevation of man above animals.

[Haashim]

Jamal Sxb. What about if we DENY this dependence addict society and develop our own NEW NATIONALITY which should nithing to do WHITH this name SOMALI.

 

I think this will be the case in the near future and the first evidence is the FISH & CHIPS society, so we must have our own name similar to them.

 

Thre generations

 

1. Somails who depend on their ADEER and ABTI

 

2. ........ who want to change this dependency

 

3. FISH & CHIPS who doesn't speak our language and have their own STANDARDS. :cool:

[Paragon]

^^^ Lol well that sounds like a good plan, but I am not appealing for a different detached society. My appeal regards the elevation of Somaliness from its current animalist form to an enlightened consensualist form. A higher level or form that is materialized when a 'biologically somali' person employs individualist thoughts and consent. This level ofcourse needs structural frameworks that accommodate the 'elevated' consensualist Somalis. My belief is that once the structure with all its functions is put in place, many enlightened consensualists will join .

 

Murad, as far as the above categories you've mentioned are concerned, waa dameer iyo labadiisa dhegood sxb. No difference. Animalism runs in all their veins, regardless of whether they were born inside or outside Somalia. My appeal is intended to attract thoughtful individuals who understand the powers contained in consent itselt. These individuals could be from any walk of life, however, what unites them will be their implimentation of their own enlighten'd thoughts and ideas.

[wind.talker]

Human and animalistic identity, from your definition, are two sides of the same coin. One can't get rid of his animalistic (biological) identity because its how he was born and raised - we're all shaped by our circumstances.

 

Originally posted by J'maal11:

The problem of being part of a collective entity is that the members are neither questioned nor assigned a clear role to play. They all play the same role thus leading to the creation of confusion.

Can you elaborate on this a bit more? What's the "collective identity" you're referring to here - society, one's family, etc.? And how does role-playing fit into this?

[Dhagax-Tuur]

I haven't read all of your comments due to scarcity of time, but what you asking for is of higher ideal and has a philosophical dimension to it. But the counter question is: can one form his own identity distinct of his society? Don't think so. the individual is part of the society and what you (we) should be aiming for is lifting our society from - to use your word - animalistic level to human level. After all, what shapes the individual is his/her surroundings (environment), i.e., the society he/she lives/grew in.

 

PS, Congrats for the Moderator medal, mate. J'Maal is impressive as well.

[Paragon]

Originally by Wind Talker: What's the "collective identity" you're referring to here - society, one's family, etc.?

Wind Talker, I am referring to both identities. The lowest denomination of which both family and society share, is the collectivization of interests through relations. Relations only arise from interests, and interests are not created without identities. Therefore the family’s collective identity (of relations of interests) directly reflects the collective identity (of wider relations of interests) of society.

And how does role-playing fit into this?

Yes, there is disorganized or chaotic role-play taking place within Somali society. This disorganization or chaos pertains to the lack of clear assignment of roles that is characteristic of nomadic lifestyle. In nomadic lifestyle all men either herd cattle or graze camel and all females are assigned to the role of looking after the household, goats and sheep. The roles therefore are limited to two: one for males and one for females. Now project these typical nomadic roles to an urbanized society of multiple roles, where occupational professionalism is the most significant ingredient!

 

As was the case with Somali society (although some say literacy was high) there was a chronic shortage (almost 80% less) of occupationally trained professionals to foresee the society’s progressive steering. If, say, only 20 % of the population had clear assigned roles, what role do the rest (80%) play? None whatever, or similar ((In the diaspora, look at your nearest Somali shopping centre: what do they all sell? The same type of shops and the same products right? )).

 

They are definately likely to become dependents on those 20% that have assigned roles. So it can safely be said that apart from this disparity, with every one professional attained, a thousand dependents are created . Therefore it is not surprising to see raging levels of corruption in all ranks of governmental (and non-governmental) professional bodies. The saying that was popular was thus (in Somali): War adigaa xafiiska noo fadhiya ee, dhacdhaca hayna dhaafin hadaad tol tahay . In the place of this, I propose a new way of tackling these problems, of course through consensualist Somalism. And my target is not the society, but the construct of the Somali self. Solving the problems of the self cures the problems of the society.

 

Extra rants;

 

In the web of collective societal interactions of relations, most of what is achieved always benefits few directors while depriving the directed most. Relations of all kinds have historically served few better than others. This fact is always ignored and unquestioned. Starting from the father and the son, and the mother and the daughter, there are vested interests which are usually gained through (economic) relations. To investigate how relations are constructed, instructed and benefited from by some and not others will take an entire book. But I will reveal to you my own lens through which I have come to view how relations work. Just an example:

 

Age years of (male)

1 – 10 Growth, 10 – 25 direct labour,

25 – 50 Father & Laborer, 50 – 100, Grandfather and Elder.

 

Ages (female)

1 – 10 Growth 10 – 20 (aprx) direct Laborer

20 – 60 Mother & Laborer, 60 – 100, grandmother

 

In analyzing age-ranges and their levels of productivity, it becomes clear that while say, for example, male-child is, through father’s labour, given year 1 – 10 for growth, he correspondently spends equal years (from 10-20) in direct labour repaying his father’s labour, loaned to him in his years of growth. The same occurs with the female-child’s years of 10 – 20 as she works as a domestic labourer, repaying her mother’s labour. When both go beyond their single-hood periods, they assumed the same role their fathers held. This means putting in 10 years of labour to the growth of their future child and receiving equal amount in direct payment. But as far as I am concerned, this is not the problem at all.

 

The reciprocal years of labour is an understandable contribution towards the construction of family relation that is sustainable emotionally (from mother’s side) and most important to the father, economically. The problem however exists through the years of 25- 50 for the male and 20 – 100 for the females. It is in these years that vicious cyclical relations of dependency is created or unleashed on both.

 

This problem of cyclical dependency and economic suffering, is rooted in structural flaws that can be found in our social economics. They are rooted in miscalculations of social economics, in that, the vital years in the individual or the child’s skill development is wasted on menial labour that remains both unproductive and fuel to exacerbate dependency. The individual is underdeveloped mentally and skillfully when he/she is between unskilled labour works. He/she indeed serves as an instrument to someone somewhere whom the development of skill signals loss of profit. This someone trades in poverty and from poverty and with the elimination of poverty comes the elimination of the source of unskilled labour .

 

[The solution: delayed male marriage and accumulation of savings that will reverse the trend from parent's dependence on children, to the parent's care and education of children to improve the family and the society's economy. Also important is the higher education of the would-be wife in order to instil in the children good attitude towards education. Quick male marriage has vested interests not for the man or woman, but for other agents ]

 

To say extra words on current dependency trend, the father depends on his son directly or indirectly, and a fraction of proceeds from the son is contributed in customary ways to the ‘clan’ elder. In turn the clan elder assures that this structure that allows the son to labour while the father benefits and contributes stays the same. The clan elder enforces this structure through insecurity/security. In such a situation, the clan elder is not the only one to blame, but also the father and the son. It is to this patriarchic structure that mothers, sisters and wives are slave to. The solution to this is very simple.

 

However, it has to come from within the individual the will to effect change in him/herself. Change, therefore, can only come with individualist consent. Through consent the individual can curtail the entire political and economic mess we’re swimming in. Things such as clanism or tribalism are myth. They are scapegoats upon which one uses to gloss over his/her own failure or insecurity.

 

PS: Forgive me for any mistakes. I am writting under the heavy influence of sleep .

[Paragon]

Originally posted by Aniga:

I haven't read all of your comments due to scarcity of time, but what you asking for is of higher ideal and has a philosophical dimension to it.

But the counter question is: can one form his own identity distinct of his society?

Don't think so. the individual is part of the society and

what you (we) should be aiming for is lifting our society from - to use your word - animalistic level to human level.

After all, what shapes the individual is his/her surroundings (environment), i.e., the society he/she lives/grew in.

 

PS, Congrats for the Moderator medal, mate. J'Maal is impressive as well.

Aniga, brother, as I said to Muraad in an earlier post, I do not wish for a distinct society but rather like you suggested, the lifting of Somaliness from its animalistic form to a higher level. And as you corrected asserted, a high level society that has a philosophical dimension to it. However contrary to believing the society or environment make or break individuals, I believe individuals actions constitute society. And through the change of the individual, we can alter the fabric of society in whatever way desired.

 

PS: Thanks for the congrats bro. I didnt notice I still had the 'sheriff badge' of me . I shall polish it to make it shine.

[AYOUB]

Interesting thread J11. What's your opinion of people who identify themselves as Sijuis or Soomaali-Sujui, I wonder?

 

As for my views of Somali identity, I think they fall into your 'biological' category. Sometime last year I met two 'Somalis' by the names of Abuubakar and Nasir. I first encountered Abuubakar in SE London and when I spoke to him in Somali he just smiled and told me he could not speak Somali. When he told me he was from Chad, I told him he looked like one cousin whom I have't seen in a while. He went on to tell me his people believe they rode their camels from the Horn and believe their origins to be Somali. I still regards to be Somali.

 

Nasir, on the other hand, spoke to me in Somali and when I couldn't believe he was Somali he explained that he was 'muwalad'. I still regard Nasir to be Muwalad.

 

While i'm at it, let me share some thoughts that crossed my mind after reading an article about Somali Bantus just settling in the USA. What are the risks/chances of their children losing their identity and assimillating into African American culture? Would they still be Somali Bantus if they lose both their language and religion? Just a thought.

[wind.talker]

JAMAAL -

 

Thanks for the explanation. I see where you're coming from now. Mass education is needed to enlighten the people. You have to understand that nomadic culture is still a strict and dominant part of Somali lifestyle. Back home, people haven't fully urbanized - only in urban centers can a Somali nomad find access to education, careers and a brighter future. In a way, we're still awaiting our eventual urbanization that would create a free-thinking society because everyone would be granted access to the institutions that breed a new generation composed of an educated class (remember, in Somalia, the educated class is still a minority).

 

I, however, doubt delaying early marriage will have a positive effect on Somalis' growth into their human identity. Early marriage is an institution designed to safeguard the Islamic morals we hold so dear - marriage at a young age calms one's hormones, so to speak, and therefore they potentially avoid engaging in haram acts and giving birth to an immoral society.

[NASSIR]

Through consent the individual can curtail the entire political and economic mess we’re swimming in. Things such as clanism or tribalism are myth. They are scapegoats upon which one uses to gloss over his/her own failure or insecurity.

Jamaal

 

 

Brother, An independent identity can be created only when the individual who wants to create such an identity is freed from an outside influence. Our identities had been shaped in the past during our formative/childhood years. Hence, refraining from propitiating to the wishes. wants, and needs of your culture and clan, albeit so unconventional and disadvantageous at times to dissociate yourself from your common identity in an effort to criticially assume new identity, which then creates new affiliations, most people would interpret such transformation as having inherent purpose whether greed or rejection.

 

 

I believe it would be difficult for individuals under the tutelage of culture as societal constraint to reassert his/her identity. To model such a distinct manner of identity requires the protection of liberty from institutional safeguard and help.

[Paragon]

^^^ Caamir iyo Wind Talker, I will respond to you later on. I might just have useful ideas that may help make transition easier.

 

 

Ayoup: Interesting thread J11. What's your opinion of people who identify themselves as Sijuis or Soomaali-Sujui, I wonder?

Sxb they are biologically (ethnically) Somali but when they say they're Somali-sujui, that speaks volumes. Here is someone who recognizes to be first Somali and second Sujui. While the first identity is countable as being biological, the second is conceptual. This conceptual identity is derived from citizenship (whether consensual or not) to a certain country. The citizenship is something they share with many other ethnically diverse communites in which they are part.

 

The main difference between the Somali-sujui or the Muwalad and the Somali is that while the former two have obtained citizenship 'derived' identity, the latter is only equiped with basic biological identity. What the consensualist Somalism will do therefore is to try to re-configure the already developed conceptual indentity of the suji to become one based on Somali consensualism, and try to develop from scratch a 'new' conceptual identity for the Somali that can be configured to a consensualist identity. So AYOUB, consensualist Somalism being a level high than biological Somalism will accommodate the Muwalad, the Somali suji and the less diversified Somali .

[Viking]

The solution: delayed male marriage and accumulation of savings that will reverse the trend from parent's dependence on children, to the parent's care and education of children to improve the family and the society's economy. Also important is the higher education of the would-be wife in order to instil in the children good attitude towards education. Quick male marriage has vested interests not for the man or woman, but for other agents

J'maal,

Ndugu, instead of delayed marriage, why not continue the trend of marrying early but instead delay the bringing forth of offsprings? There is a huge amount of pressure put on (mostly) the female. Members from both families inquire just months after a wedding whether the female is pregnant and if a year goes then there are whispers all over asking whether there are biological problems. By delaying with about 3-5 years, one can still get married early (a deterrent to sin and a joyous union which brings peace and harmony) and concentrate in saving money, acquiring a higher education or skills that would make the couple self-suficient.

 

The problems most Somalis face in the west is some sort of 'loss of identity'. The man is no longer the sole 'breadwinner' who commands respect in the society and the woman takes on (together with her traditional role) the role of other relatives and the 'house-keeper' (for urbanites) in being solely responsible for taking care of the children, cleaning, cooking etc.

 

Most Somalis who are in the west still live in their taditional roles that were suited for their homeland and this has been the root cause of many problems we face today as a people. Women see that a man who doesn't help out at home as 'useless' and a man who is 'helpful' is seen as 'weak' by the other "alpha-males" who have been able (despite all odds) to maintain their old roles in the new and challenging environment. They are basically adapting their environment to themselves instead of adapting to their environment. In that case (as the old saying says) there won't be any progress. I might be on the wrong track here so please correct me if I'm 'out of topic'

[Blessed]

Salaams

 

Great topic J11,

 

I was discussing the issue of dictated identities with my girl last night. I find that we (Somalis) are a very manipulative and intrusive society. Our lives are dictated by mainly by the opinion of the community.

 

 

Will be back to expand on my thoughts after I’ve read all of your responses (not sure if we're on the same chapter- am just assuming that we are)