AIDS: a Malthusian Agenda of Depopulation?

[Paragon]

Deaths spiral out of control in Aids crisis

 

South Africa suffers 59pc mortality jump in six years

 

Peter Beaumont, foreign affairs editor

Sunday February 20, 2005

The Observer

 

South Africa's mortality rate has jumped by 59 per cent in six years, fuelled by the HIV/Aids epidemic, according to new figures published this weekend by the country's central statistical office.

The report, which has been mired in political controversy even before its publication, says women have represented the biggest increase, while more adults of both sexes now are dying than in 1997.

 

In 1997 149 men aged between 25 and 29 were dying for every 100 deaths among women. In 2003 that figure had leapt to 77 male deaths for every 100 female deaths.

 

The figures are based on a survey by the government agency Statistics South Africa which analysed the cause of death of around three million South Africans notified to the Department of Home Affairs between 1997 and 2003.

 

The poll is a potential bombshell in a country where health professionals and the government have been locked in a bitter struggle over the real scale of the HIV/Aids epidemic.

 

Although tuberculosis, influenza and pneumonia, and cerebrovascular diseases were listed as the leading causes of death, the Statistician-General Pali Lehohla, said on Friday that the data had 'provided indirect evidence that the HIV/Aids epidemic in South Africa is raising the mortality levels of prime-aged adults, in that associated diseases are on the increase'.

 

The release of the mortality figures was already controversial even before their publication with claims that the statistics were being suppressed by President Thabo Mbeki, who has long attempted to play down the scale of the Aids crisis and who criticised the same agency in 2001 for the claim that 40 per cent of South Africans were HIV positive.

 

The report concluded that the average number of deaths rose to 1,370 a day in 2002 from 870 in 1997, an increase that could not be explained by the 10 per cent increase in population during the same period. Dr Steve Andrews, an HIV clinician and consultant in Cape Town, told the New York Times he believed the figures suggested that far from the report having been made more politically palatable, 'we should not be seeing this aggressive move in death rates - not at all'.

 

The new figures have emerged amid an escalating row over the South African government's handling of HIV/Aids which forced the country's Health Minister, Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, to issue a statement maintaining that South Africa's Aids policy is among the world's best.

 

'Very few plans are as comprehensive as ours, bringing together elements of prevention, nutrition and a variety of different treatments,' Tshabalala-Msimang claimed. But the government target of having 53,000 people at 113 state-accredited health centres on free antiretroviral therapy by March 2005 is still falling short. Recent figures from the Aids lobby group, Treatment Action Campaign, indicate that only 29,332 people were accessing the drugs.

 

The escalating Aids crisis - and claims that the government is doing too little to stem the spread of the disease - has seen increasing public discontent.

 

Last week Aids activists once again marched to parliament to demand a ten-fold increase in the number of people being treated on retroviral drugs by 2006.

 

Receiving the petition South Africa's presidential head of communications, Murphy Morobe, said that he personally had lost six family members to HIV/Aids over the past three years.

 

Morobe's remarks are in contrast to President Mbeki's statement in 2003 that he 'did not personally know anyone who had died from Aids'.

 

The latest official figures will put new pressure on the president, following hard on research published earlier this year in the journal Aids whose authors estimated that more than 112,000 people died of HIV-related illnesses in 2000-01 alone - nearly three times the figure given by South Africa's department of home affairs.

 

The country has been accused repeatedly of deliberately underestimating the Aids death toll - and therefore failing to allocate sufficient resources.

 

A 2002 survey by Statistics South Africa showed that only 8.7 per cent of deaths in the country were caused by HIV/Aids.

 

But medical researchers and Aids charities insisted at the time that it had massively downplayed the scale of the pandemic.

The Guardian Unlimited - 20 Feb 2005

 

--------

 

Nomads, is aids/ebola virus really an accidental disease or an intentional agenda to depopulate (racially - as President Thabo Mbeki + Moi believed to be) Third World countries?

 

Many African rural communities are dispearing, and social structures - due to the economic impact of aids - are breaking down. The death toll is beyond any known proportion, so can this be classed as a silent 'Genocide' of a different kind?

 

PS: Only objective responses welcome. If you have nothing useful to add to this thread then please stay away. Thank you.

[JustCause]

Where is the evidence? Just because a lot of Sub-Saharan Africans dying isn't evidence on it is own. Also talking of population, Africa isn't that populated to concern anyone that much to go and release this deadly virus on them. So before we dwell in the land of the conspiracy theories, I would suggest we examine the evidence on hand that is meant to support these claims.So where is the evidence!?

 

Isn't, President Thabo Mbeki, the same person who tried to down play the number of people who are effected by HIV? Also didn't he dispute the link between HIV and AIDS. So how can we trust anything that is said by such a person?

 

I believe both Presidents (Mbeko and Moi) failed their people on this issue and so tried to use the race card or whatever card they get their hands on.

 

 

President Thabo Mbeki, even went further to defend his ill thought policies of combating AIDS by saying, he 'did not personally know anyone who had died from Aids'. What difference does it make whether he personally knew people who died from AIDS or not??

[Paragon]

^^^ Do abit of research and update yourself of the issues and questions you have raised. Then come back and we will talk of malthusian agendas .

 

PS: Read abit of history about Chief Pontiac and the Ottawa Tribe of Oklahoma (the poison gifts of the British centuries ago) if you are interested in conspiracy theories or even disproving them. This topic is not that.

[Vanquish_V12]

let me see if i got this right, some1 is suggestiong that Hiv was introduced to africa as a form of a population control. wow i guess thats as absurd as it gets, if only the formulators of this theory had a minute understanding of the complexity of this menace the impossability of their assertions would come to light. throughout history lethal microbes have sprung and died down its only a natural process ultimately governed by the will of Allah swt. europe itself was dealt with some of the worst outbreaks of bubonic plague, smallpox, influenza etc... although human inguinity has taken great leaps we are nowhere close to the ability to synthesize such a dynamic killer.

[- Femme -]

Nomads, is aids/ebola virus really an accidental disease or an intentional agenda to depopulate (racially - as President Thabo Mbeki + Moi believed to be) Third World countries?

J11--I know people get hives when they hear about conspiracy theories--but it happened too many times in the past not to question/be suspicious about it in this case

 

Ex. When the Europeans handed out blankets infested with Smallpox to the Native Indains--->that was cultural genoicide. Hundreds of thousands died as a result, and alot of tribes were virtually wiped out.

 

This was in the news a couple of years ago and the trial is still on I believe:

 

Trail in Libya

 

February 7, 2000

Without formal notification of Bulgaria, the court holds a hearing where, according to unofficial information, six Bulgarian citizens are indicted. Later on it emerges that the principal charges against all defendants in the case, including the Bulgarians, are: commission of acts within Libyan territory leading, sooner or later, to the indiscriminate killing of people for the purpose of subversion of the security of the state (a capital offence); involvement in a conspiracy and collusion for the commission of a premeditated crime; causing epidemic by means of injecting 393 children at the Al Fatih Hospital in Benghazi with the AIDS virus (a capital offence); and actions conflicting with the norms and traditions in Libya.

The Libyan Arab Jamahiriya has indicted nine Libyan citizens, a Palestinian, and six Bulgarians working and studying as guests in Libya, on numerous charges in relation to an incident of mass HIV infection at Al-Fatah Hospital in Benghazi.

 

Aside from the Libyan indictment, little information is available about this incident. Reportedly almost 400 children were infected, and at least 23 have died.

>>>Also they have to test their pills/aids treatment on people, and I assume they would want less restrictions than in America and other developed Nations. There would be policies and regulations in place that would protect the patients from harm and unnecessary testing. But who knows?

[Paragon]

^^^ Yes, I have seen the Libyan case on TV. The Native Indians case is a historical one but not taught in schools.

 

Are you aware of NSSM 200 document?

[juba]

Originally posted by -Femme Fatale-:

Ex. When the Europeans handed out blankets infested with Smallpox to the Native Indains--->that was cultural genoicide. Hundreds of thousands died as a result, and alot of tribes were virtually wiped out.

 

they sure never told us that one in school! i thought them just breathing the same air was enough!

 

this supposed theory is quite interesting and outrageous aswell, but i always remind myself that with greed in hearts and power in mind anything is possible :rolleyes:

[raula]

I firmly concur with Just Cause on the dissident’s stance (that HIV doesn’t cause AIDS but a collection of virus and other internal and external bodily/human imbalances such as poverty) by Mbeki on the ruthless killer. Mbeki perhaps was lashing out his anger at the multinational pharmaceutical drug companies at the extend of patent power they had over establishing generic drug alternatives while he watched his fellow Africans mercilessly being murdered by something unknown-when the answer to solving the problem is just dollars away.

There is evidence that HIV causes AIDS or at least I believe that the disease DO INDEED exist.

I agree w/Vanquish that this might just be a plague of our times-just like other nations/generations experienced anciently-however, I think even ancient epidemiologists would agree that this 'silent killer' is One that is vicious, unwittingly and scientifically indefinable epidemics of all time.

 

Back to Jamaal-the HIV/AIDS disease is a very controversial one. First you have to understand that HIV-1 is the dominant killer worldwide, whereas HIV-2 is mostly contained in the West African region (not very contagious due to its low Viral load)ßa major indicator to one’s HIV status. Now, from my public health understandings-from its original strand, the virus has mutated 11 times. The subtype B is the most common in United States, while D is the most dominant in Africa. With that said, could this clarify the disparity statistically as to why the disease is very notorious in Africans than other populations?

 

There are so many competing hypotheses of the origins of the disease. For instance, its manipulation in a laboratory setting, in Chimps habitats in the Belgium Congo, sort of cancer-like virus (Kaposi Sarcoma) that was first recognized in Gay males (hence the name GRID-Gay Related Infectious Disease). But the one that keeps me mystified yet some-what convincing is the chimp virus (SIV) that crossed to humans in a “accidental†mass laboratory experiment by the Philadelphia’s Wistar Institute and its Belgian contemporaries in pursuit of developing a polio vaccine in the former Belgian Congo and nearby countries during the late 1950’s.

 

Here are some bibliographical references: -sorry couldn’t get direct reference to the articles.

 

Hahn, Beatrice, et al. (1999). Origin of HIV-1 in the chimpanzee Pan troglodytes. Nature, 397:436-441.

Kaprowski, Hilary. (1992). AIDS and the Polio Vaccine. Science, 257:1024-1026.

 

**the latter citation is perhaps one worthy of glancing.

 

Note: this is when Congo was under the regime of the Late King Leopold (actually was his personal property) and the natives endured one of the cold-blooded colonial suppressions in the world. Because it was his personal property-this man did whatever he could to the innocent natives (aided by some numbed Africans) to fulfill his financial appetite thru’ Rubber economy.

 

If only time was at my side-I would add more, but for now I will leave to that. Hope that gives some minor insights.

 

Ma'salama.

RAULA

[Grad Student]

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/malthus/malthus.0.html

there is the original work of undestanding the dude and his theories.

as far as AIDS is concerned, it is a post-modern challenge to AFRICANS!

[Grad Student]

I thought these other readings might provide background!

1. http://www.adamsmith.org/smith/won-index.htm

2. http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/locke/locke2/locke2nd-a.html

 

Read with an open-mind and a dictionary!

[- Femme -]

The Native Indians case is a historical one but not taught in schools.

J11 & Juba: I dont know about the UK and USA--but here in Canada we learned about that in grade 8 &10 social studies classes. It happened because the native indians were on very rich land for farming and the settlers wanted it. There were conflicts with other bands and they wanted to kill them in a slow and quite manner--without getting their hands dirty, wasting ammunition, getting the other tribes angry, and losing men of their own.

 

>>>The SSNM 200 document is crazy! :eek: Although I heard similar ones to it--when South Africa sterilized the black women by the thousands so as not to have a bigger population of blacks who cold threaten the state of apratheid.

[juba]

Originally posted by -Femme Fatale-:

I dont know about the UK and USA--but here in Canada we learned about that in grade 8 &10 social studies classes. It happened because the native indians were on very rich land for farming and the settlers wanted it. There were conflicts with other bands and they wanted to kill them in a slow and quite manner--without getting their hands dirty, wasting ammunition, getting the other tribes angry, and losing men of their own.

 

we were definatly taught that but not the specific method of using a blanket!

[Vanquish_V12]

lets not get carried away, it is true that almost 90% of the native american population was wiped out through diseases brought over by european invaders and in some cases knowingly used these infectious agents as biological warfare case in point pittsburg. why would anybody introduce an agent which they had no control over and that could possibly come back to haunt them, as far as controlling population, Hiv in many ways is no longer the menace it once was, with current treatment one can can carry on a relatively comfortable life, and given da fact that these drungs are increasingly being made available how would this go down with that ****** theory.

[Shirwac]

I personally don't buy into this theory.

The fact is that AIDS/HIV virus is spread by people's life styles. Safer sex, condoms, or just not having sex can prevent it easily.

[raula]

VanQ-true true true-but even with the introduction of generic drugs-and anti-retroviral drugs to combat the virus/disease-do you think the average african can afford these drugs? Besides with ailing African economies, how can a govt. ensure to have an effective intervention against AIDS when they cannot even provide the basic needs to all its citizens (not even 3/4 of its people)?

 

Besides-comfortable life :confused: have you ever checked out the side effects of these "COCKTAIL DRUGS"-as epidemiologists call it with the HIV/AIDS drug regimen....(hence a major problem of alleviating the virus is ADHERENCE problems apart from others). From a western window-AIDS might be "cubbed"/dealt with provided that we have fierce and effective interventions that (the govt. could afford to implement) work. But in the case of AFRICA, with all the slanted politics, weakening social fabrics and other natural calamities that add to the 'boiling pot'-HIV/AIDS will continue to wipe out till the international committee makes AFRICAN-EPIDEMICS a full priority. Its like Carl Marx's stance against prostitution when he said that: until we alleviate CAPITALISM,then and only will we have alleviated prostitution.

 

Ma'salama

RAULA