Islam and Democracy compatibility Nor coexistence: How fundamentally they are at odds

[Alisomali]

I for one strongly believe that Islam allows for democracy.

For all of you who disagree with me I ask you one question... what better solution vis-a-vis choosing gov't for muslims do you have?

Furthermore, what is down right frightning is that some of you believe that there are Muslim leaders that are rightly guided thus there citizens can not reject them

Conscious Manipulation, said "In Islam, however, we don't have this right(removing our leader at the people's will) as we can not remove the leader we've chosen so long as he doesn't break the contract we have with him and rules with what Allah has revealed."

So I got a question, how about if the leader is committing haram by say waging an unjust war, and the whole populace sees this war as unjust, but the leader thinks this war is just and in accordance with Islamic rules and laws, what recourse do the innocent civilians have?

Answer me that question, PLEASE

Anyways, democracy is the only way that our people can gain freedom, by democracy I mean that type that is home grown, not the type that is forced down the throats of Muslims by a bunch of white folks.

[SURAMBAYA]

Islam and democracy,are they compatible?

The question should be about ARABS AND DEMOCRACY! It's sickening to see that everyone including muslims confuse the two. Look at other Islamic countries, southeast asian for example and black african countries. People are free and have a voice. Why does the problem only lie with arabs? If they cannot fix their problems...SOMEONE WILL FIX IT FOR THEM. and it is happening. May Allah make me see the day when there's no more Emir and there is democracy in the middle east.

[Conscious Manipulation]

asalaamu alaykum,

 

While browsing, I came across this article and remembered this thread. I thought I'd share for those of you interested in this subject.

 

Unclothing Democracy

 

Origins

Democracy has originated from the mind of man, whereas Islam has originated from Allah (swt).

 

Basis

Democracy has its basis in secularism i.e. the detachment of religion from life, whereas Islam is based upon a comprehensive socio-economic and political structure where 'religion' i.e. the shariyah, is the source of all legislation.

 

Thoughts

Democracy produces thoughts such as the four general freedoms (belief, individual, speech and ownership), people are the source of legislation, and the rule of the majority. Islam by contrast does not allow these absolute freedoms, nor are the people the source of legislation and neither is the Islamic ruling based on majority rule.

[Conscious Manipulation]

Ali Somali,

 

what is down right frightning is that some of you believe that there are Muslim leaders that are rightly guided thus there citizens can not reject them

The idea of leaders being divinely choosen is a shia concept. The view of Ahlu Sunnah wa jama'ah is that the ummah has the authority to choose/elect the khilafah. Any method can be employed to gain the consent of the people. During the time of the prophet (Saw) and the rightly guided imaams the pledge of allegiance was taken from the people for the ruler.

 

how about if the leader is committing haram by say waging an unjust war, and the whole populace sees this war as unjust, but the leader thinks this war is just and in accordance with Islamic rules and laws, what recourse do the innocent civilians have?

If the khilafah is a mujtihad he has the right to adopt any Islamic opinion he wishes and we are forced to comply. If we feel he's being oppressive then we have the right to challenge him in "the court of the unjust" in which case the judge will decide for or against the khilafah. The judge has the legal right to remove the khilafah from his position.

[Medley of extemporanea]

When most people talk about democracy, they don't really mean 'rule by the people'. they mean rule of law, equality of people before the law, some form of representative governance, and institutions like that. sometimes they also include free market economics. sometimes they don't even include those things. It’s not a wise idea to be saying your anti democracy or islam is anti democracy because what you mean and what people might think you mean maybe too different things. It might be wiser to say your pro democracy and then define democracy in a way that conforms with your ideas.

[CHE]

I firmly believe, democracy has been an agenda for the west to deracinate people of their religion and culture.

 

I subscribe to a great religion and see fit a system(theocracy) that is consistent with my religion and culture.

[CHE]

Maybe Islamo-communism will do....hybrid of islamic theocracy and socialism.

[Paragon]

And so the vangueness above 'democracy'and Islam continues. Nomads, what are you exactly talking about? The 'Structural System' that envelops democracy, or the 'Principles and Values'of (a particular type of)democracy?

 

The two are different. While the former is applicable to any society, the latter is specific to a country and can vary from one country to another. Muslims are in dire need of democracy's 'Structural System' while using the Sharia as 'Principles and Values'.

[CHE]

jamaal,

 

Not an expert,but,will borrowing from democracy,or any other, deem sharia somewhat incomplete?

 

At MSA workshop(on islamic law) last fall,one of the presenters emphasised more than once how humble and comprehensive sharia is in directions,and hence has adequate structural definitions.

[Rahima]

Islam is perfect, no other issm is.

 

If it so happens that parts of democracy are part of Islam, then we have Islam, why the need to attribute any of it to democracy or even mention this man made concept?

 

To believe in Islam is to believe in its perfection, that Allah has completed this religion.

[OG_Girl]

^^What uncle Sam wants is Democracy that protects their intrests in middle east! But when people In Aljeria, Turk chose who rule them they choose Islam , but Uncle Sam did not like that!

 

On otherhand,If Democracy means people have freedom to choose who rules them,then NO worries from it, since we are the majority in our countries I am sure people would choose Islam.

 

Doesn't matter the name whatever is " Democracy or Shura".People should have freedom to choose who rules them (the leader)not the system.

 

Salam

[Paragon]

Originally by OG_Girl: Doesn't matter the name whatever is " Democracy or Shura".People should have freedom to choose who rules them (the leader)not the system.

Well said OG_Girl. That is exactly what the 'Structural System' I mentioned means. It is only a mechanism that provides people an access to information on HOW to choose their leaders. It also provides the needed facilities, observation and expertise to undertake a non-shadowy election. After successful election it should then create social frameworks that deal with the leaders' duties to their people and country. In 'duties' I mean things that pertain to: 'accountability', 'responsibility', 'transpiracy' and 'competence'.

 

Such social 'structures' are required due to a concern with logistical incapabilities associated with conducting elections in big populations. There was a time when face-to-face choosing of leaders was possible due to smaller populations. Now that the Ummah is over billion, we need structures in order to allow each and everyone to censent to/against to the leadership elected, not the 'Principles and Values' employed to lead them. This is surely not unIslamic, since it is Islamic Sharia that is our 'Principles and Values', and is used as a directive.

 

Only when our leadership's competence is scrutinized, their loyalty, accountability, transpiracy and faithfulness tested, can there be an Ummah that progresses strongly and prospers economically. If not, we will have to brace ourselves for more 'puppet' monarchies and corrupt dictatorships. IN MY OPINION, the old ways of not questioning the quality leadership is costing us our beingness and cannot be maintained anymore.

 

[The Sharia]...has adequate structural definitions.

CHE' absolutely true. And I am more than happy with those structural definitions. They are not truly implemented however. That is why I advocate for a 'structural system' that questions the quality of the leadership, and if lucky,one that educates the masses with comprehensive Islamic and other necessary knowledge. Openness is the key word here sxb.

[Socod_badne]

Islam and democracy are not compatible. In democracy state and religion are separate but its the opposite in Islam. Islam is whole way of life, both political and relgious. The question is: is Islam flexible enough to coexist with democracy? Democracy is not flexible, not in my opinion. Certain principles of democracy cant be changed/altered. Otherwise, democracy will no longer be. Democracy requires strict adherence to the rule of law, a constitution and checks and balances of power. The lack of any of these will mean democracy is no longer. You'll have semi-democratic state or other forms of governance.

 

Islamic countries are failures, not all but alot. In living standards, politics, culture, science and technology, and in many other fields, muslims are behind the rest of the world. I dont put the entire blame on Islam because there are other factors. But the fact that there isn't single successful Islamic country, that is run according to Islam, speaks for its self. I always here from muslims that problems facing muslim nations is because they aren't run according to 'true' Islam. I ask why is that? To me this sounds like what the communists used to say during the decline of the U.S.S.R.. Communisim apologists used attribute the Soviet decline to not governing by 'real' communism. And if the Soviet union reverted to 'real' communism, all problems will fix themselves. To me the fact that there isnt a succesfull Islamic nation means that the supposed 'real' Islam country that will solve all current problems, doesnt exist. It will never be realised.

 

Having lived under both Sharia law run country and in a true democracy, I know which is better. Democracy is best form of governance out of what is available. Until better system of governance emerges, its the only system I prefer to live under. In democracy I can practice my religion as I like, have freedom of speach and political association and live my life the way I like. That cant be said in Sharia Law run countries. I find some of the Sharia Laws objectionable as a muslim. I know many of the Sharia laws are from the quran, and the word of allah, but I think it should be reintrepreted by learned modern muslims. Some of the Sharia Laws should be discarded as they are outdated and not useful in modern times. I dont see why it cant be done and why it hasnt already been done.

[Haaraahur.]

Islam and democracy

 

Before you answer whether they are compatible or not perhaps one should describe their principles and foundation. A famous sheikh laid the below comparison:

 

The western civilization:

 

It takes as its point of support force, which manifests itself in aggression.

 

Its aim and purpose is benefit and self-interest, after which everyone jostles and pushes without restraint.

 

Its principle in life is conflict, which manifests itself in contention and discord.

 

The tie between different groups is racialism and negative nationalism, which thrives on devouring others and which manifests itself in ghastly clashes.

 

Its alluring service is encouraging lust and passion, satisfying desires, and facilitating the attainment of whims.

 

And as for lust and passion, they make man descend from the level of the angels to that of a dog. They cause him to become a beast.

 

If most of these civilized people were turned inside out, the skin of a wolf, bear, snake, pig, or ape would appear. Or so it seems to the imagination."

 

 

Islamic civilization

 

"Its point of support is truth instead of force, which is manifest as justice and equity.

 

Its aims are virtue and God's pleasure in place of benefit and self-interest, which are manifest as love and friendly competition.

 

Its means of unity are the bonds of religion, country, and class instead of racialism and nationalism, which are manifest as sincere brotherhood and reconciliation, and co-operation in only defending against outside aggression.

 

The principle in life is that of mutual assistance and co-operation instead of conflict, which is manifest as unity and mutual support.

 

In place of lust is guidance, which is manifest as progress for humanity and being perfected spiritually.

 

It restricts the passions, and instead of facilitating the base desires of the carnal soul, it gratifies the high sentiments of the spirit.â€