Lets Map Somalia....

[Abwaan]

Thanks to those of you who have explained to me that this is for learning but not for creating another mess. I hope that is the case too, but the reality is as we are Somalis and we know ourselves and we don't normally have reasonable discussions on such issues plus as far as i know there are not such fair resources to consult with I wonder how this is going to be fair and beneficial?

 

Please don't get me wrong cuase I am not saying that things should be perfect.

 

I remember during the latest population census and stories I heard from those who were involved in the one before that. When you meet someone and you would want to take down information for the census many did lie and would give an incorrect information. For instance, some would claim to have larger family members than they actually did and some would even claim to have wife and kids when that they didn't. There were cases where it was even obvious to know that they made up their claims by looking at the age they claimed.

 

Anyway, this topic needs real work and research but not only cut and paste stuff.

[NGONGE]

^^^ The only possible reply that anyone could give you would be “wait and seeâ€. For the purposes of this thread alone, I’ve adopted the Dr Pepper slogan, saaxib.

[Jacaylbaro]

Oh my God,,, this was really a good thread ,,, hmmmmmmmmmmm ,, how did i miss this ???

 

Any how ,, i must have taken a full day 2 read most of ur posts ,,, is it really helpful ,,,,

 

Just one thing,,,, don't try to waste ur time to get a full map of Somalia,,, there is no map at all after 1991 ,,,, all what we use is an outdated and old ones prepared mostly by foreigns ,,,,,, Let's see another one year if there is any change or any effective government of Somalia ,,, and also see if Somaliland join the rest of da country again or it gets a recognition from the world ,, then we can get da actual latest map of Somalia.

 

Lemme see if i can get any useful map for Somalia ,,,,

[QUANTUM LEAP]

The myth of Somali homogeneity played a major role in the rise of nomadic clans to political predominance, and the appropriation of resources from the less warlike and intensely religious agro-pastoral groups in and around the inter-riverine region. A major factor in the Somali conflict is the struggle among clans for control of limited and increasingly scare resources, especially land and water. More specifically, it is a violent competition between the (Q Name) and (Q Name) clan families for political and economic dominance of the inter-riverine region.

That’s as close to the truth as can get today. Thanks Willo very helpful as now we now that even during the time of the YSL there was no consensus as to what sort of political system suited the country. The system obviously was anon starter and needed a lot more to it. The Somali political landscape as it is; is still undergoing a lot of upheavals and changes. Perhaps the only mould would be more dictatorship than democratic as talking seems not to be going anywhere.

 

Abwan..I usually don’t like skeptics and people who live in the past. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and perhaps say why make you own mind and analyze the situation since you don’t want to depend on online data. I wouldn’t mind if you came up with some sort of Oral history that could be useful and interesting to discuss. Thanks for the last bit of your post about the census and how Somalis manipulated it. Perhaps ignorance more than anything played a major role or we just very imaginative in nature.....**reminds me of many translations I go to where someone moans their parent’s b4 they even die***

 

Ngonge how about your input rather than the "Lets wait and see"..

 

Jacayl - I do understand that today’s maps aren’t very realistic on the ground but that’s what we have for now. I still think that the country has still got the same borders except for the successions that taken place within.

[NGONGE]

^^^

 

I was perfectly happy to sit back and observe the contributions of others. But, now that you insisted I join in with efforts of my own, I hope you’re not disappointed with my meagre pickings, saaxib.

 

 

The following is a CIA produced map. It's the most recent one I could find (2002).

 

Edit:

 

I had to remove the map and insert the URL instead (the map was too big and would have ruined the thread).

Looks like a good map

 

Source (more maps here)

 

 

This site might also prove useful

 

 

Another site that might be of some help

 

 

Wikipedia

 

 

Stanford

 

 

This will do for now I hope.

[QUANTUM LEAP]

Thanks Ngonge...though somehow there are Bantu groups that have been missed out on the 6 ethnicity of the somalis. I also didnt see Habar yonis and didnt get what Habar Taljaal is either. Is that another classification of malis?

 

Btw how come the Bantu and the other minorities arent in the 6 groupings?

[QUANTUM LEAP]

 

 

The regions of Somalia are (capitals in parentheses):

 

1.Awdal (*) (Baki)

2.Bakool (Oddur)

3.Banaadir (Mogadishu-Muqdisho)

4.Bari (Bender Cassim)

5.Bay (Baidoa)

6.Galguduud (Dusa Mareb)

7.Gedo (Garbahaarey)

8.Hiraan (Beledweyne)

9.Jubbada Dhexe (Bu'aale)

10.Jubbada Hoose (Kismaayo)

12.Mudug (Galcaio)

13.Nugaal (Garoowe)

14.Saaxil (*)(Berbera)

15.Sanaag (*) (Erigavo)

16.Shabeellaha Dhexe (Giohar)

17.Shabeellaha Hoose (Merca)

18.Sool (*) (Laascaanood)

19.Togdheer (*) (Burao)

20.Woqooyi Galbeed (*) (Hargeysa)

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by QUANTUM LEAP:

Thanks Ngonge...though somehow there are Bantu groups that have been missed out on the 6 ethnicity of the somalis. I also didnt see Habar yonis and didnt get what Habar Taljaal is either. Is that another classification of malis?

 

Btw how come the Bantu and the other minorities arent in the 6 groupings?

The Bantu are probably included in the ethnic minorities bit (the one in blue). Habar Yonis are in the map and Habar Taljaal, if I were going to have a wild stab in the dark, would be the clan of that mutual friend of ours that we had a drink with the other week (wink, wink, nudge nudge).

[- Femme -]

I don't know if this site would help...but here it goes. It's recent info...2003-2004.

 

IDP's in Somalia

 

"Based on their patrilineal kinship and lineage segmentation, the Somali people are divided into six major clans, which in turn branch out into numerous sub clans, and minority groups. The major clans include ***** , *** , ****** and Issak collectively known as Samale group, and the Rahaweyn (Digile and Mrifle) community categorized as Sab group. The ****** clan includes Habargedir, Abgal, Murusade, Hawadle, Galjel, Moblen, Sheikal, Djijele, Badi Adde, and Ajuran while the ****** group include *****ten, *******, *********** , and ******, LeelaKase, Ortoble, Kaskiiqabe and Dashiishe. The *** sub clans include Biyamal, Gadsan, Gadabursi, Fiqi Muhumud, Samaron, Qubeys, Werdai and Akishe. The Issak are subdivided into Habar Awal, Habar Jalo and Habar Yunis, Edigale, Ayub and Arab. The Digil and Mirifle are subdivided into sub clans. The Digil include Geledi, Shanta Aleen, Bagadi, Garre, Tuni, Jido, and Dabarend while the Mirifle are divided into Siyed and Sagal. Some of the major subclans in the Mirifle group are Laysan, Harin, Elay, Boqol Hore, Jiron, Jilible, Gelidle, Hadame, Luway, Huber and Yantar.

According to their lineage, the minority groups are divided into two groups: A group, which has similar ethnic origin with the Samale group, but traditionally considered as cast people who have no equal rights with others. This group includes Midgan, Tumal and Yibir (collectively known as Baidari group), Gaheyle and Galagale and Boni. They are traditionally hunters, leather and metal workers, and craft makers living in some parts of north, central and southern Somalia.

 

A second group, which is distinct from other Somalis in ethnic identity, cultural and tradition. They include Bantu, Benadiri and Eyle. The Bantu, who are refer to as "Jarer", which literally means thick hair are small scale farmers or labourers who live in the riverine areas in southern Somalia. They are also divided into various sub clans with different ethnic origin. Some for example the Mzigua, Mzaramo, Magindo, Myao, Makua, and Manyasa collectively known as Wa Gosha " forest people" or Oji are believed be descendents of Tanzanians, Mozambicans and Malawi's who were taken to Somalia in the 19th century by Arab slave traders (MRG, 1998). They live and practice some subsistence farming in the Gosha area in the Lower and Middle Juba regions.

 

Second Bantu sub clans, which include Shidle, Shabelle, Makane and Kabole, are believed to have descended from early non-Somali agricultural communities. They are also small-scale farmers who predominantly live in the Middle Shabelle and Hiran regions. The third Bantu group lives in the Lower Shabelle region. Because of cultural genocide, and most importantly for protection reasons they have identified themselves with the other Somali communities in the region. These include Jarer-Hintire, Jarer-Wacdan, and Jarer-Biyamal. Except the Mushunguli group who retained their Mushunguli language, the other Bantu speak Somali language and have become assimilated into local Somali communities. However, they have never been recognized as real Somalia, as a result, they suffer ethnic discrimination which placed them into servitude class. They are marginalized and excluded from main stream of administration, education and minimum social and economic development.

The site hides the clan names...so if you want to read the rest...check it out here:

 

Clan lineage

 

Clan overview

[Baashi]

QL,

The map (Population) posted by Ngonge (earlier) is inaccurate map. It is way off the mark! The last census was done in 1975 and that census didn’t spell out the clan population ratio. So how do you know the population of tribe X? You use the population density of clan’s regional seat right? Very well, let’s do that! Does the 1975 density map reflect the accurate clan ratio of Somalis? Remember there is no census to back this up. The result is an extrapolation between the regional population densities and the corresponding clans that inhabit these regions. If the 1975 density is used Hobyo, for instance, has more population than Bosaso or Galkacyo!

 

The other (the one you pasted) is inaccurate map as well. The blue regions or provinces are not under the Puntland state of Somalia.

[QUANTUM LEAP]

Lool Ngonge....didnt know that but hmmm its kinda unique to be honest. First time I here Taljaal. What one learns when exploring.

 

Oh Bashi thanks bro ...Im sure its pretty outdated but then again this is the kind of information that stimulates a discussion like this. Surely the populations density has changed alot and is likey to be so different from what it used to be. Many have perished with the war and it may suprise many that we r actually fewer than we used to be. Oh by the way bro any chance you could redraw the map and insert the info you think is right?

 

FF thanks for the infor....very recent n very much appreciated too.

 

By the way is there anyway we can bring together the number of Somalis in diaspora since we all live in different parts of Europe and the US?

[- Femme -]

 

I dont know how accurate it is. But I guess they are mostly concentrated in these areas.

 

On a sidenote: World Fact Book: Somalia

[Xudeedi]

Ngonge, the map you posted displays inaccurate percentage population in Somalia. The probability that the chief settlers of the center of North Somalia is larger than the most spread out clan of Somalia with massive land is gravely illogical. I also think it was devised by naive team of CIA.

 

Originally posted by Ngonge

Looks like good map to me

Muad, the first map is more accurate than the second map.

The second map accumulates confussion of Subclans and major clans. It relays also intrinsic message that those subclans are comparable to the major clans, which is completely absurd.

[wind.talker]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Looks like a good map

LOL That's a funny map.

 

D-a-r-o-d = 20%

I-s-a-a-q = 22%

 

Need I say more?

[NGONGE]

I was under the impression that QL (or at least the purpose of the thread) was to find a map showing the clan distribution within Somalia (i.e. who lived where). The percentages were merely a bonus that, in all honesty, I did not scrutinise long enough. Still, don’t you trust the CIA? :eek:

 

Apologies if the map annoyed you, wind talker. How does IS 22% and DA 21% strike you? (A whole 1% is not something you could scoff at you know).