Lets Map Somalia....

[rudy-Diiriye]

Plz dont say no more as you have nothing to say... tnx

 

[ January 21, 2005, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: QUANTUM LEAP ]

[Muhammad]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

^^^^ I think Caaqil's opposition is to the above map and the way it shows the spread of one clan within Somalia without showing a similar breakdown for the other clans! I trust that the brother has been a bit hasty with his conclusion. If he waits for a few days, I'm sure others would have furnished us with similar maps with "different" breakdowns.

 

As great as this topic is, I fear that we will have to sift through a lot of rubbish to reach our final destination! So, fasten your seatbelts and have your senses of humour at the ready, people.

ok nomads, since I was the one that posted the first image, I've been searching the web since last night to find another map that shows further breakdown. I hope it is helpful.

 

 

 

ps. I'm not claiming these pictures are accurate and facts, so don't take everything you see as truth.

 

peace!

[QUANTUM LEAP]

Muad the above one is much more clearer and ofcouse does the topic justice. Well done bro. keep up the good work. Later on we will try to tackle more about the country but right now we are just trying to get information which would be analysed later.

[Baashi]

QL,

Muad’s last post is somewhat accurate. That map shows pretty much what tribe resides where. Although some major sub-clans are not shown on the map, all the main Somali tribes and their area of influence and residence are accurately shown.

 

Now how does this tribal map get translated into 4.5 formulas (the so-called power-sharing arrangement)? The answer of this one is not as easy as you might think. Consider the fact that this power-sharing arrangement is not a one based on population (there is no official census of the population) nor is it based on land! It was a compromise that happen to get the support of the majority with the understanding that within two and half years there will be new tally of the population and a new constitution (permanent) as well.

 

Remember these Mps are not your typical Mps! These are appointees! In the Nairobi gathering, the leaders and warlords wielded more power than the traditional “issimoâ€. Some sub-sub-clans got more than their quota, some got less, and others got none. Thus even in clan wise, the representation is not accurate. Nevertheless this is what we got from that conference. Whatever works brother! – if this is what puts an end to the violence and the anarchy so be it.

 

There you have it sxb.

 

Btw, Shaqsii sxb tell me what happened to the site golden rules (qabiil names and all of that). Has it changed or this is a case of la jiifiyaana banaan. Not that I’m objecting your wisdom of course

[QUANTUM LEAP]

Bro Bashi..Many thanks for your input here and ofcouse a pleasure to share knowledge with you. This thread was basically started for educational consumption and not attack or abuse any clans or tribe in anyway whatsoever. I thought perhaps I would try to understand how the different powers that be worked within the country and how it was shared. I basically have a slight inclination that things are not as rosie as they seem because of the nature of power sharing and ofcouse the present government's impotence and inability to make it back to country safely and take on its power base despite MPs from different regions giving them the seal of approval. I have a feeling that these MPs just as the government in exile don’t wield much power and that the real power lies within the confines of the Somalian borders rather than outside. I don’t understand why they can’t go back and take their base in the capital without really crying for more help (militarily) if its democratically elected.

 

As a person born in diaspora, I wanted to learn more about the country as a whole in geographical terms and cultural too. I have tried reading a bit about it but I naturally thought we would either learn together or perhaps provide information. As you may have noticed I’m not an avid contributor to the politics section as I mostly see it as a war zone rather than an intellectual playing ground of exchanging ideas and knowledge. You are one of the few that I think are in the middle of the ground who really try hard to discuss issues rather than take them out of context and that is very much appreciated.

 

As for the golden rule on Qabiil,-- I believe that not being able to write or talk about clans is wrong if it’s done right. However, the policy here is aimed at protecting and respecting the different clans hence a script being built in to safeguard the respect they should deserve. May I also add that this is not preferential treatment rather a yarning for knowlege and a topic started in the spirit of seeking further clarification on issues that concern us all as Somalis (knowing you country)rather than attack any group.

 

We should be able to raise above petty issues and really do ourselves justice by trying to think beyond the realms of qabiil and perhaps see the larger picture. Our survival as awhole.

[sheherazade]

I'm beginning to wonder what a geography class in a Somali school would be like.

[Wiilo]

I bet its gonna be great one

[juba]

i don't understand what there is to learn? how divided we are?

[Emperor]

Baashi, good points dude.

 

As for the topic and Mr QL, I don't think anyone here can answer all your questions sxb. Somali traveler who knows where every clan lives and can draw an accurate map for you, lol, I find this imposible, in the end you gona have to depend on western maps. Their accuracy? to me I would say they are almost accurate as far as the regions and the cities inhabitants is concerned. 4.5 formula and the MP's I think Baashi said all i had in mind.

 

Gday

[QUANTUM LEAP]

Well for the skeptics, the point of this is for enlightening those who have basically little or no knowledge of Somalia and also to make sure we keep up to date with what is happening out there. Many people have moved around and many more displaced and anyone who left the country ten years may not recognize the changes that have taken place as a result of the civil war.

 

 

This is amap of the different regions and their main capital cities, towns and villagers.

 

Cartographic map

 

An estimated 370,000-400,000 people remain internally displaced, more than five per cent of the population. Despite a ceasefire agreed in October 2002, fighting continues intermittently. The security situation is so volatile that President Abdullahi Yusuf, elected in October 2004, cannot work from his own capital and has remained in exile in Kenya. The violence has forced tens of thousands of people to flee their homes again and prevented cultivation in 2004, mainly in the regions of Mogadishu, Gedo, Juba, Shabelle and Galgadud. In addition, some regions are suffering from the worst and longest drought ever experienced since 1974, often with irreversible effects...

 

Here is the whole report for those who are interested

 

Full report

[Diamante]

This is a useful link, there's a map to show the regions and clan divides, also some names and dates are included. It's broken down in simple pages, easy to read. Thought it might be helpful, so let me know what you think.

 

Link

 

P.S. some nice stuff some of you posted, especially to farxan, I was looking everywhere for that, cheers! Keep it up everyone

[B_A_L_L_E_R_Z]

[- Femme -]

Thnx for the Map diamiante. Very Helpful.

[wind.talker]

Muad's maps are excellent. When a tribe's name is linked with a certain region of Somali-inhabited territory, it doesn't mean that certain tribe has a 100% dominance in that region. It means most of the people who live in that region are from tribe hebel.

 

The 4.5 formula is the dumbest political power-sharing agreement in the history of civilization. They allowed an entire Somali people to be categorized as "Others" - what the hell is that about? Instead of focusing on and building upon what we have in common, they opted to focus on our tribal differences and to further reinforce and cement the already-prevalent "us and them" mentality. This so-called government is neither Islamic nor democratic. So what the hell is it?

 

I've always been a fan of the "bottom-up approach." UN chief Kofi Annan had once commented on the theory of "building blocks" - it one that we ought to take a closer look at before jumping on the 4.5 formula!

[QUANTUM LEAP]

I would like first of all to thank all those that have contributed to this thread. I’m sure as we go along; we learn something new and will definitely pick up more as we go along. I never new names like widwidh kalabydh, xidhxidh and dabataag existed other than in spoken Somali.

 

Diamante provided us with another wonderful map which is shown below. It apparently classifies the different clans and illustrates it in color. However, with the amount movements that have taken place due to wars and famine, the map may not be very accurate.

 

Map link

 

Somalis are divided into a number of clans, and sub-clans, and the relationships between the clans are complex. Some of the clans are minority ethnic groups, and language boundaries can cross clan boundaries. There are larger groupings, "clan confederacies", about six in Somalia, of which the ****** is important for Mogadishu. Different clans can have different status within a confederacy, and presumably different sub clans can have different status within a clan. Clans follow a customary law, “Xeerâ€, which recognizes private property and compensation for victims of violence. It is adjudicated by clan elders, for both inter- and intra- clan disputes. Clans as we have come to realize are fundamentally important to a Somali society. Some ethnic minorities are outside the clan system, which has serious legal and security ramifications for these individuals. In the present atmosphere and political climate a lot of these minorities are likely to be sidelined and create a very unfair playing ground and maneuver for the minorities.

A major reason why a united Somalia failed is because most Somalis never really saw themselves as a common people, but as a people broken into to separate clans. “For many Somalis, clan or lineage was as far as their identity needed to be stretched. Certainly for everyday purposes Somali was a relatively meaningless term. Identity was determined by genealogyâ€

 

Infact as I was reading through and searching for the different languages spoken in Somalia online, I came to realize that some of these languages like Bonni are becoming extinct and that is a lose to the cultural richness and diversity amongst the Somalis.

 

I would like to thank all participating in this thread and hopefully as we go along we will come to understand what drives us as Somalis and aims of the different political heavy weights and their intentions in comparison to what is on the ground. To me it looks like there is a total contradiction of the powers that be in comparison to the people they represent on the ground. Building a government based on clans rather than policy will only make matters worse and this wouldn’t help at all in regards a peaceful country and people. A clan based system can only work if its fair and the formula that has been suggested wont work fairly albeit many opting for it. It would be the majority rule and the smaller less powerful clans being unfairly treated.