Renouncing Qabiil and Qabyaalad

[Baashi]

There is nothing wrong with being part of a family, clan, tribe, race, nation, etc. That’s how we humans identify ourselves. Qabiil (in the Somali context) serves as an identity. Qabyaalad, by contrast, is destructive, divisive, and backward practice. Qabiil, when used other than personal identity, leads to Qabyaalad. Same argument is true with the region and regionalism or race and racism, etc. Although I sympathize with those who disdain Qabyaalad and its destructive practices, I don’t understand the ones that make public announcements against Qabiil.

 

That being said, one has to understand the fact that Somalis are decentralized people, held together by language and clan ties, rather than by state structures of coercion and control. Now, with this background, let’s explore how we could “renounce and divorce ourselves from this primitive Qabiil structureâ€. Since it is irrational (and impractical as well) to abolish the Qabiil structure, I call us to concentrate on how we could get rid of the Qabyaalad.

 

This is a political question and as such we need to concentrate the overall system and government institutions. To do that we need to explore and understand the elements of politics: freedom, authority, law, and justice. One of the problems in the Nairobi conference outcome, in my opinion, is that they implicitly institutionalized the Qabiil. They ignored the need of creating of a government system based on meritocracy rather than entitlements for the clans. Taking into the account the difficulty power-sharing scheme poses, the prevailing negative tribalism, the lingering grievances that loom large over the political discourse, etc all of that, I see one solution and that is: to broaden our conception of justice. Can we conceive a government system that is fair to each and every constituent (clan or otherwise)? Given the record of the past government, can we eliminate the mistrust among clans? Is Islam acceptable to today’s active political players?

[Xoogsade]

Nationalist, Do others from other tribes care if you belong to a noble tribe or not? Will any somali accept that you get something because of your tribe's entitlement? How you are going to sit across a table with the rest of somalis using your tribe will always be at issue. Nobility or whatever feel-good things one espouses about their tribe, others don't care and have no use for it. That is the challenge for you. You either keep your tribe confined to your private life and stop using it where it is not appreciated or wanted, or you live in the current saga.

 

Anyway, I am still waiting for the quote where the prophet said he was proud of his tribe.

 

 

Hey GUARDIAN.

 

Your true tribe is your husband lol

[macalimuu]

Baashi thanx for the definitions:

 

Qabyaalad or Qabiil is all the same in the Somali sense of the word and the two go hand in hand. Renouncing one will lead to the elimination of the other.

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Nationalist - Here is a topic to research: ASABIYAH IN ISLAM & PRE-ISLAMIC JAHILIYAH IN MECCA, FEMALE INFANTCIDE..

 

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The pre-Islamic Arabia was in darkness. The So called noble Qureish of Mecca you are talking about aren’t they the ones that practiced infanticide - killing their newborn female daughters alive, that owned slaves and women as just mere chattels. God in his wisdom choose Prophet Muhammad to revolutionize and enlighten these backward tribes of Arabia.

 

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" Each generation must, out of relative obscurity, discover its mission, fulfill it, or betray it" - Frantz Fanon, "Wretched of the Earth"

[-Serenity-]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

I don’t think the aim of this thread was to renounce that part of tribalism. It rather was interested in the negative aspect of tribalism and how that could be banished. So far, all of you only repeated the words of the author (in a better way). But, none of you is willing to look into the ways tribes’ function and the reasons people claim superiority, dominance and supremacy!

Hello Handsome

 

I thought the thread was calling for total renouncement of the clan-system. Must have mins-understood it. My little mind could only enterpret this in one way, but I can see how yours would go further, think deeper and explore wider.

Somalis, I call for ideas of how practically we could renounce and divorce ourselves from this primitive qabiil structure.

Xoogsade

Hey GUARDIAN.

Your true tribe is your husband

Rite X, all the more reason why I should get one from my tribe innit?

[AYOUB]

Ngonge whats up with the cross-examination? One or two questions.. fine but you remind me of the lady on today's news whos house was flooded.. where do I begin?

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Now to the idea of being a “Somaliâ€! Can one be a Somali and endorse the concept of Qabiil at the same time?

Yes I don't see nothing wrong with that at all and that's what I said to MsWord. What Qabiil means to me is personal not even my brothers agree with interpretation of it. Everyone in here might say the same but I find it some people's views and behaviour slightly hypocritical. For example, this pan-Somali online community discussion forum - with strict rules on clanism - has a topic titled "Somalis are better than Arabs". The other day one member was demanding another to wish all 'Malis' a happy new year and not only 'Landers'. What makes it only 'Malis' not more or less I ask? No wonder the Pope says his 'peace on earth in 100+ languages.

 

Let me try to explain the Qabiil - Somali concept using the recent Tsunami disaster. It's understandable why this and other Somali sites are appealing for donations to help Somalis even though they are not the worst affected victims. If it happened where my qabiil live then that's where I would be concerned with most and if it happened to cousins neighbourhood then I would be even more worried. This is not to say I was'nt shocked or touched by images of the disaster. In brief I see my qabiil closer members of the extended Adam's family.

 

 

When the sister above says that she’s a “Somali†first and her tribe comes second (which you seem to have agreed with though you proceeded to contradict)!

Saxiib she didn't give example of what she meant by that but I still don't see anything wrong with what she said. I think she only talked about how she sees her qabiil as part of her identity and unlike some in here, I don't see any hypocrisy in her views. What makes you think I contradicted her?

 

 

Does that mean that when the state clashes with your tribe, you’ll forsake your tribe for the bigger and better idea of the state? Will it be the other way round?

Not necessarily. There is always wrong and right and using my earlier example, if my cousin fights my brother it doesn't mean I'll join my brothers side even though he's wrong ... It depends ..

 

other answers later sometime..

[Blessed]

Qabyaalad or Qabiil is all the same in the Somali sense of the word and the two go hand in hand. Renouncing one will lead to the elimination of the other.

Whilst we're @ it lets eliminate race and gender to rid us of the other friendly isms such as sexism and racism.

 

 

On the real...Given time and national effort -I think we can one day revolutionise our politics so that it's not so dependent in qabiil... to eradicate the very existence of qabill is another matter entirely.

 

However; so that we don't stall this thread..tell us your ideas Macalimuu...

 

How do you purpose that we the Somalis undertake such a mammoth task of reconstructing our sociological makeup? What is the alternative and whose role is it to lead this revolution?

 

I'm all ears...or eyes rather

[rudy-Diiriye]

i dont take u can eliminate qabiil! but u can eliminate making it a way of life!! majority of the qabiil abusers comes from ppl who has no other way of lively hood or abusing qabiil to enhance their schemes!!

 

one time my classmates mother asked what tribe i was and i told her! she was okie, u is related to what his name!! and truely most sound mothers dont dizz on gabil ways! its just for id!! and thats what it should be!! an id system of the past!! period!! other than that, it should cease and decese!

 

but my ill is on grown man who use this subject to gain fame or favours!!

 

shame on u folks!! :confused:

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Ameenah:

quote:Qabyaalad or Qabiil is all the same in the Somali sense of the word and the two go hand in hand. Renouncing one will lead to the elimination of the other.

Whilst we're @ it lets eliminate race and gender to rid us of the other friendly isms such as sexism and racism.

 

 

On the real...Given time and national effort -I think we can one day revolutionise our politics so that it's not so dependent in qabiil... to eradicate the very existence of qabill is another matter entirely.

 

However; so that we don't stall this thread..tell us your ideas Macalimuu...

 

How do you purpose that we the Somalis undertake such a mammoth task of reconstructing our sociological makeup? What is the alternative and whose role is it to lead this revolution?

 

I'm all ears...or eyes rather

When you compare tribalism to sexism or racism, are you implying that people discriminate out of pure hatred and superiority?

Do you think this is the real reason why tribalism is rife in Somalia? Is it really just a case of people looking down at everyone else and believing their tribe to be the best?

 

Or is it a case of mistrust, paranoia and unfounded suspicions?

 

I personally believe it to be the latter. For if it was the former, then truly, we do not have a chance in hell of correcting that predicament!

 

The brother is right in saying that Qabiil and Qabyaalad are one and the same in the current Somali psyche! The difference is personal; when talking about one self’s actions then it’s Qabiil, but when talking about the actions of others it becomes Qabyaalad (i.e. Qabyaalad is something committed by other people).

 

Of course, the correct definition of it should be the one that Baashi above has provided but that’s not the reality on the ground today, or is it?

 

I agree with Baashi in that the cure for this ailment is in the introduction of justice for all. Equal justice, fair, unbiased and neutral! However, that’s easier said than done. In fact, going by the current climate of Somali politics it’s nigh on impossible to realise such a dream. This is because such a solution will have to be implemented from the top and trickle downwards. The pitfalls of such a solution are abundant and the chances of it completely collapsing are numerous too (all it would take is a simple whispering campaign for the paranoia to return and the whole thing to collapse).

 

Though knowing one’s roots and lineage is impossible to abolish (today), it’s important to realise that one is a separate being from his father, grandfather and great grandfather. One is not a multi headed hydra! One is not the umpteenth limb of his great grandfather, one is only a descendent of that grandfather and one shares that claim with many others. These others, though “relatives†(depending on their proximity of course) only obligate the person to loyalty for religious and moral reasons. This loyalty however, should not extend beyond giving a helping hand and looking out for the economic welfare (or social should the necessity arise). Still, even then, one should be explicitly aware that one is not the tribe and the tribe is not one. These “acts†are done out of a sense of duty, belonging and social harmony but should not cancel out one’s own, separate, unique and individual identity.

 

It’s this individuality, I believe, that will eventually relegate tribalism into what it essentially always have been; a method to state one’s roots and lineage, no more, no less! Only when we promote such individuality and encourage all to set, seek and pursue their own goals in Somalia will we be able to obliterate the ghost of Qabyaalad. It’s not always that your third cousin removed, who speaks on your behalf on all matters political, will do what’s right for YOU. It’s not always that what’s good for your Qabiil will be good for you! Because, while Qabiil is a convenient social cushion to fall back on when the going gets tough, there is a risk that this cushion might become too comfortable and reduce one to a dependant, needy and indolent being that relies on others to decide how his life and well being will pan out!

 

Individuals are better prepared for taking risks; they (on the whole) would know what these risks entail and what would be at stake for them (personally). For a profit, gain or realisation of one’s goals, one might be prepared to overlook (or ignore) the suspicion, paranoia and mistrust associated with dealing with members of rival tribes (clans). One’s loss (should it occur) will be an individual loss and will not affect his tribe in any meaningful way (save the trivial ways of one-upmanship and losing face, etc). In such a case, and depending on the individual’s single-mindedness and the importance of his goals, such simple hiccups will not matter!

 

The tribal approach on the other hand, limits one’s horizons, goals and ability to realise these goals. A collective tribe is always concerned with matters of face, honour, pride and superiority! A tribe is a small replica of a nation. Nations (Somali or otherwise) derive their togetherness and unity from their culture, history and character. The Americans brag about being the supreme world power, they highlight their kindness, strength, wealth and intelligence (though it’s fair to say that not all Americans are intelligent). The Brits talk about their history, the English language and their influence on the world. The French boast about their revolutionary traits, philosophy and secularism! All three believe in their own importance (over and above anyone else). The Jews believe in divine favour, the Muslims believe in being the best nation sent to man (which I don’t dispute). In short, groups (tribes or nations) have to have these unique “advantages†in order for individuals to respect the integrity of the group. When these “advantages†are questioned or face a risk from outsiders, the whole group is offended! Here you see, the face saving and self-glorification take precedence over progress! Who in his right mind, would confess to being a member of a humiliated group (tribe or nation)?

 

In Somalia, it’s not practical to have these “nations†within a nation. A group is bound to always lose face, be humiliated or trampled on! This group will always try to retaliate in order to restore its self-worth! The nations within a nation will carry on being in this perpetual conflict! Easier to just get each group to declare a state of their own, some would say! But, things are not that simple! Within each tribe exist clans and within each clan exist sub-clans, the pride, self-worth and boasting is replicated all the way down to the smallest family. Could they all have their own state? I suppose that when the boundaries are clear and the ability of one clan to cut itself off from the rest, there might be a very strong argument for it to do so. But, that still does not mean it will be safe from the disease that’s haunting every other Somali tribe!

 

Renouncing tribalism should not be done out of a sense of frustration and anger at the way it has ruined Somalia. Renouncing tribalism should be the goal of every individual that’s confident of his/her own ability and wants to pursue his own dreams, goals and targets. Like a child losing the umbilical cord and leaving the womb of his mother, individuals should attempt to shake off the shackles and try to breath on their own (some might fail but many wont). Mother will always be there, mother will always try to dictate things for you; in fact, mother has always fed you and comforted you. But now, now it’s time for one to mature and find one’s own way in the world.

[Blessed]

When you compare tribalism to sexism or racism, are you implying that people discriminate out of pure hatred and superiority?

Do you think this is the real reason why tribalism is rife in Somalia? Is it really just a case of people looking down at everyone else and believing their tribe to be the best?

 

Or is it a case of mistrust, paranoia and unfounded suspicions?

I’m simply asserting that race, gender class, tribe etc.. are tenets which create similar psychological dynamics that lead to group conflict. For example; the feminist and black power movements were created as a result of frustration with the oppressive forces who claimed superiority over the respective members of those groups.

 

However, one only needs to look at these groups to see that their counter claims to superiority is no different. Furthermore, the existence of any group is based on shared memory which if members get blinded by group loyalty can result in an emotional bond that creates as you said mistrust, paranoia and a collective drive against the ‘other’.

 

It’s a psychological truth; the existence of groups irrespective of type creates notions of group think, attachment and conflicts of interest with other groups… human nature!

 

Of course there are different levels of conflict. And nothing compares to Somalia’s violent and genocidal intractable conflict.

 

However I think that my brother Maclimuu simplifies the Somali problem by arguing that it can be reduced through the mere elimination of tribes. Which, coincidentally isn’t in Somalia’s’ short term goals.

 

 

Mother will always be there, mother will always try to dictate things for you; in fact, mother has always fed you and comforted you. But now, now it’s time for one to mature and find one’s own way in the world.

Cute logic my dear.

 

But the Somali child is yet to be delivered. We can only look on and pray for the safe delivery of a healthy child. It's cultivation and education shall be dealt with in due time Insha Allah.

[NGONGE]

^^ Would it be evil of us if we tried to induce a miscarriage?

[Jumatatu]

^^^Xasiid wa xasadan...!

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

If we assume that these tribes do have leaders that issue “laws†and control the conduct of their own tribes (a farfetched assumption might I add), how does their power extend to you and me when we don’t even reside in their realm?

These tribal leaders do not play an active part in my daily life - neither do I wish for that - but there're lots of people who are in contact with them. There are people over here though whom I consider to be my tribal elders even as the youngest of boys, I've never had to sit or meet them apart from the odd functions.

 

I do believe however the traditional leaders back home to have more powers than you give them credit for. We may be outside their realm, but don't forget the part they played in that or else no reason to blame qabiil (as if it was the only thing responsible) for the destruction of the whole country.

 

 

If on the other hand, we suppose that such leaders are mere representatives of the tribe (clan) and have no power over individuals in their own tribes, how do these individuals toe the line? Why?

Ngonge over here, I believe it's partly the image and situations you meet these elders in the first place. They may visit the moment you 'land' and take the lead when organising anything from funeral or wedding etc The day they come for help you feel obliged without even hearing the sales pitch.

 

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

These others, though “relatives†(depending on their proximity of course) only obligate the person to loyalty for religious and moral reasons. This loyalty however, should not extend beyond giving a helping hand and looking out for the economic welfare (or social should the necessity arise)

I think some tree-hugging qaxootis will say that too is part of qabyaalad, where do you personally draw the line as to who is a "relative" and who is not?. I agree with you on giving giving a helping hand though.

 

Originally posted by NGONGE:

The tribal approach on the other hand, limits one’s horizons, goals and ability to realise these goals.

Not if your set target were partly tribal in the first place.

[Blessed]

Would it be evil of us if we tried to induce a miscarriage?

:eek: @ this stage in the birth process that would mean murder. Our religion forbids such an act.

 

Apologies for my vagueness but the child I was referring was the national child, whom I feel might (with great effort) provide an alternative to the qabiil conflict.

[Paragon]

Whatever ills the clan system embodies within itself, unless another economically competant system can be put in place, there is no point in trying to eliminate Qabyaalad. Somalis have no other effective system to replace with the one they have. Every sytem is for some people and serves a purpose. And human beings, like all other animals, are slaves to or can be dealt with efficiently through the provision or the refusal of the basic needs: food, shelter and clothing. If one can satisfy such needs for groups of people, one can (let alone shift allegience) create truth and reality.

[NGONGE]

AYOUB,

 

Yes, but what makes the elders in the West for instance your “leaders� Is it a hereditary privilege? Is it experience or just the fact that they’re old? The same applies to the people back home (by the way, I was not belittling them in anyway, my questions were genuine. I understand the structure but can never put it into words and that’s why I asked these questions).

 

 

Originally posted by Ameenah:

Apologies for my vagueness but the child I was referring was the national child, whom I feel might (with great effort) provide an alternative to the qabiil conflict.

You were not vague at all. I understood your meaning but was only trying to tease you.

 

 

Whatever ills the clan system embodies within itself, unless another economically competant system can be put in place, there is no point in trying to eliminate Qabyaalad. Somalis have no other effective system to replace with the one they have. Every sytem is for some people and serves a purpose. And human beings, like all other animals, are slaves to or can be dealt with efficiently through the provision or the refusal of the basic needs: food, shelter and clothing. If one can satisfy such needs for groups of people, one can (let alone shift allegience) create truth and reality.

I agree. The Arabs of the Gulf States were fiercely into tribalism but once they found wealth and each man was able to fend for himself, tribes have been relegated to mere folklore and something to boast about (like owning a nice car or house). Yemen though is the closest example to Somalia. The tribes there still exist, still wield some power in government and parliament (cardboard parliament of course). However, nationality to them comes before tribe! This might be due to the huge efforts the government put into glorifying the unity of the country without demeaning or belittling the tribal concepts.