Renouncing Qabiil and Qabyaalad

[Xoogsade]

Nationalist, Can you quote where the prophet pbuh said "He was proud of his tribe"?

 

People should Stop using islam to advance pre-islamic notions. Qabiil is identity the Quran teaches but not a tool to use and abuse in politics. Anyone who knows anything about islam would know for a fact that Islam is the system Muslims should use for governance PERIOD. No tribal system and bigotry, no tribal loyalty because you are supposed to be loyal to GOD not to your tribe.

 

How does one expect from someone who hails from another tribe to work with them if they are telling him their tribe comes first? How does that person expect unity with them? And following the logic of tribalists, what makes it wrong for someone to decide to take the LOYALTY up a NOTCH and call it quits by declaring independence from the rest of Somalis? we can't blame them can we? Because if we do, we are contradicting ourselves. They are loyal to their tribe, cant trust others with their affairs and interests, and the rest can't argue with them. This is to shed a light on the result of tribal loyalty and where it leades people to. The rest of the examples I can draw in here are even more darker. Look at Xamar and its people? How Qabiil transformed them in to hopeless beings? That is tribalism in its darkest manifestation. Doesn't anyone think these people could have benefited from islam and could unite for a common cause instead of advancing hopeless tribal loyalty and find themselves in perpetual fighting where there is no winner?

 

Islam and Somalism are dead so long as people believe in tribal loyalty.

 

 

AYOUB SHEIKH

 

 

No doubt in my mind I have my own interests and things I like to see in a woman, nonetheless, what tribe she belongs to is of no consequence. Somalis marry black Americans and whites lately, so what makes a Somali woman unfit for marriage?

[Coloow]

Assalamu calaykum;

 

It is simple;

 

You either believe in Allah and your ability as individual to reason, act and do your obligation as a muslim (you are alone in front of the almighty, no tribe would be there to save you from HIS wrath)

 

 

or believe in the tribe as a religion, an institution based on fallacy, lies and hear-says which impair your ability to think, reason and act.

 

 

I am sick and tired of somalis who use Islam to further a cause based on lies. The tribe Allah talked about is somali and not reer qurac, qansax or garas; not the ones we created, constructed and use as a division!

 

The somali tribe never fullfilled a function as may purport it did. It brought us harm, hatred and limited our capacity to develop as people and nation. If anything, it has brought us distruction.

[Wiilo]

Caaqil

The somali tribe never fullfilled a function as may purport it did. It brought us harm, hatred and limited our capacity to develop as people and nation. If anything, it has brought us distruction.

 

Caaqil walaal I agree with you totally,,,,,,,

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by Duke_Valantino:

I have to give it to my boy Nationalist.. Well said. I remember Siyad Barre tried to tell the people that we should move on from the clan system. We know what effect this had.

Do you think Siyad was wrong in that wish or was he wrong in the way he attempted to fulfil that wish?

I would be interested to read your views on the questions I asked Ayoub earlier in this thread. If they’re too much, then all I’m interested in is how does the clan system work? (It’s not a trick question, honest).

[Laba-X]

"No tribal system and bigotry, no tribal loyalty because you are supposed to be loyal to GOD not to your tribe."

 

Xoogsade you are speaking to Somalis here! don't you know a somali man's Qabiil comes before his religion? Thousands would kill for their Qabiil but wouldn't have the courage to raise a hand if someone insults Allah or the Holy Prophet, they'd almost certainly be heedless!

 

To the poster, insisting somalis to forsake their Qabiil and any anticipation of it's corollary is an "Unrealistic optimism"

[Emperor]

Honestly, As some nomads have mentioned earlier, I too believe this is a waste of time. Worthless ideas and unsabstaintiated dicussions comes as result of this qabiil thingy. Somalis, well, we know every body here is qabilist, and we shouldn't expect from such people come up with fair result for all. Im not making baseless accusations here... it is the truth nothing but the truth, deny it I will prove you wrong.

 

Infact being here for a shorttime I now know every1's qabiil(or shall I say most of the nomads') and can post it, shall I? you are stunned here i can see....NO im not using Magic powers, Just the 1 or 2 lines you shared with us on SOL about the Somalis whether it be he in the west or back home. Put aside SOL users, think of thousands of Somali websites, that have no qabil name on it but you really know, not only their clan but sub-sub-sub clan. Forget about the cyber world for its not real. Look the situation on the ground in real life, the local communities, restaurants, Business and their clients who happen to be the clan, even to my amazement when i was told some mosques are owned and prayed only by one qabiil, How on earth we went this far?

 

Sxb, simply every1 is qabilist.

 

My recommendation of how to stop this ...

 

Instead of the Nicknames let's call oursleves our clan and sub-sub clan names, for if you try to renounce it gets worse and worse. After all no trust among this nation, how could you do that?

 

I suggest, to let them use it, call themselves with proper and clear qabiil names, engage business by qabiil without hiding the clan name, but then in the end the status of the Somali qabiil belief will downgrade from great strong beliefs and feelings to a simple insignificant names.

 

Well, at least thats how I think.

 

 

Gday!!

[macalimuu]

From the discussions here, I make out that the clan syndrome has been institutionalized internally here and has irreversible imprints in our whole psyche. it is hard for some to even re-consider other alternatives because of pessimism and the impracticality of my proposition.( assuming that is how they perceive new challenging ideas ) This really underlines not only that we need to be reconciled as a people but to be educated.( bottomline, maybe re-brain washed or de-brainstromed, re-programmed mentally, our memories erased.. - call whatever you like).

 

There seems to be strong support for the continuation of the Qabiil and some here has even made some blasphemous statements about our beloved prophet, may peace be upon him. people seem to have limited knowledge of our beautiful religion. it seems our whole vision is confined by the clan.

 

Qabiil and its violent factionalism is a disease that needs to be cured through a progressive education.

Just ask yourself what Qabiil has done for you so far? Did it ever accord you a full privilege, success, accomplishment? Did it made you gain knowledge and progress? The only thing it has done for all of us is division, hate, envy, animosity, fratricide, genocide, poverty, backwardness, constant violence, civil wars and above all destruction of our homeland? Please tell me, for those of you who advocate for it, what is good about such a vicious institution?

renouncing ignorance and primitive systems is the way out.

[Xoogsade]

Macalimuu, nicely put. Ilaahey ha cafiyo Somali waa jiran tahaye.

[Nationalist]

macalimuu, you have decided to renounce your qabiil, say, right after you were boasting about the villas in Mogadishu? You're not the first confused Somali and unfortunately not the last. All talk but no action. It's very cheap to say that qabiil is bullshit and to say: "look where it has gotten us". But qabyaalad existed before you and it's a culture deeprooted in the Somali psyche, because we are a people of pride and honour as well as people who live on barren and harsh land. Surviving in Somalia needs teamwork and that team is your qabiil. Why the qabiil. Because all the members have the same mutual interest and if one hurts his qabiil, the fool hurts himself. Contemporary political systems and the abundance of weapons have damaged the fragile balance within the clan system.

 

 

Ridiculing my statement about the prophet [css] as blasphemous is rich coming from you. I rather drink a glass of hot oil than let the garbage you call posts sink into my mind. We all know that the prophet Muhammad [css] came from the formidable Quraysh tribe, the tribe that was blessed with guarding the city of Yathrib [Mecca] as wel as the keys to the Ka'bah. It was a fact that his tribe was the most noble among the Arab race. The fact that he was aware of it and proud of it, doesn't mean that he was arrogant. Your knowledge is limited, hence your foolish rantings.

[-Serenity-]

Anyday, I consider some1 from my clan closer to me than some1 who isn’t. Qabill is having that bond of unionship, identity and most importantly close proximity with people. Most people of a certain clan hail from the same region, have familiar lifestyles, history, sheekooyin, etc. It is but natural to identify with these people and easier to get closer to them.

 

I think clans are most effective in qurboland. They identify with each other, help each other and look after each other. What you need to is disassociate is the system from the followers. Clan-system is about lineage. Blood is thicker than water brother. You cant deny or denounce where you come from. What is wrong is not for me to claim I belong to a certain clan, but to discriminate against others for belonging to a different one. The latter is obviously ignorant and absurd. We need to realize the latter is a form of prejudice, and one that should not be tolerated in todays world. Clans shouldn’t extend to political parties and govern political driven decision, specially a political party that is an umbrella for several other clans. We should recognize qabiil for what it is – identification/lineage/proximity.

 

The fault with Somalia/land is not clans -- its somalis/landers.

[NGONGE]

Ridiculing my statement about the prophet [css] as blasphemous is rich coming from you. I rather drink a glass of hot oil than let the garbage you call posts sink into my mind. We all know that the prophet Muhammad [css] came from the formidable Quraysh tribe, the tribe that was blessed with guarding the city of Yathrib [Mecca] as wel as the keys to the Ka'bah. It was a fact that his tribe was the most noble among the Arab race. The fact that he was aware of it and proud of it, doesn't mean that he was arrogant. Your knowledge is limited, hence your foolish rantings.

Heh. I realise that you were being playful here and wanted to mischievously mislead the brother here by mentioning “Yathrib†and then having the word (Mecca) in brackets, but that’s not fair ** sniggers ** not fair at all. Yathrib was the old name for Medina, not Mecca!

 

As for the prophet and his pride in his tribe (was it the whole of Qureesh he was proud of or just the sub-clan of Bani Hashim by the way?), well, since you did not provide any proof of such a statement, it’s fair that people will question it, wouldn’t you say?

 

I agree with you that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but you’re really not helping these brothers and sisters when all you do is give them tiny snippets of what you know, brother. Don’t be mean! educate them now.

 

I notice that nobody dared to answer any of my questions by the way!

[Nationalist]

Oh lord. You are right. Yathrib is the pre-Islamic name of Medina. My bad. He was proud of his whole tribe Quraysh, not just his clan Banu Hashim.

 

Ngonge, I'm not here to educate people. There is a kitaab in every Somali household. I suggest Xoogsade and macalimuu read it than let it collect dust.

 

By the way your questions are just way too challenging and demanding.

[NGONGE]

I think clans are most effective in qurboland. They identify with each other, help each other and look after each other. What you need to is disassociate is the system from the followers. Clan-system is about lineage. Blood is thicker than water brother. You cant deny or denounce where you come from. What is wrong is not for me to claim I belong to a certain clan, but to discriminate against others for belonging to a different one. The latter is obviously ignorant and absurd. We need to realize the latter is a form of prejudice, and one that should not be tolerated in todays world. Clans shouldn’t extend to political parties and govern political driven decision, specially a political party that is an umbrella for several other clans. We should recognize qabiil for what it is – identification/lineage/proximity.

 

The fault with Somalia/land is not clans -- its somalis/landers.

Hi gorgeous.

 

Not meaning to pick on you in anyway, shape or form. But, yours was one opinion too many, that’s all. The majority of those that replied to this thread followed the same line of reasoning. All are attempting to explain the importance of knowing one’s roots and talking about blood, water and all forms of liquid things!

 

I don’t think the aim of this thread was to renounce that part of tribalism. It rather was interested in the negative aspect of tribalism and how that could be banished. So far, all of you only repeated the words of the author (in a better way). But, none of you is willing to look into the ways tribes’ function and the reasons people claim superiority, dominance and supremacy!

 

Some of you stated that the tribal system should not be applied to Somali politics and that all the Somali ills are a result of the actions of the Somali people and not their tribes! Confusing to say the least! Are these tribes and clans made of Ethiopians then? Aren’t they Somali people and aren’t they fighting, plotting and scheming in order that their tribe (clan) is not left behind? Has this not always been the case?

[Nationalist]

Ngonge what's your relationship with Muhammad Moge?

[NGONGE]

^^^^Believe it or not, I don’t even know what tribe he comes from or what part of Somalia he hails from ( I know it’s the north but is that Somaliland or Puntland?). I like his music though.

 

 

By the way your questions are just way too challenging and demanding.

I know, saaxib, I know. I spent three nights thinking them up and mulling them over in my mind. Even as I was posting them, I was still asking myself “would the people of SOL be able to cope with such challenging questions? Is it too soon to unleash my full intellect on them?â€

Luckily, I remembered that this section of the site is bursting at the seams with wisdom, common sense and rationality! I knew you guys would easily answer my simple questions. So, quit teasing me now and lower yourself to at least giving them a passing glance.