Renouncing Qabiil and Qabyaalad

[macalimuu]

Somalis, I call for ideas of how practically we could renounce and divorce ourselves from this primitive qabiil structure. Just, I would like to open a discussion about it. I have some ideas and thoughts of how but I would like to observe what others think of it. Just a personal reflection and soul searching is needed here. Let us all avoid to be biased and steer clear of prejudices. Let us all use our human rationale, gut feelings, common sense and the god given intellect.

let us open the discussions here ---

[Laba-X]

Good Question!

 

The answer is simple, as long as ONE somali remain, qabyaalad and this Qabiil syndrome will run through his blood. Renouncing it is futile, a sheer waste of time!

[juba]

Originally posted by macalimuu:

Somalis, I call for ideas of how practically we could renounce and divorce ourselves from this primitive qabiil structure. Just, I would like to open a discussion about it. I have some ideas and thoughts of how but I would like to observe what others think of it. Just a personal reflection and soul searching is needed here. Let us all avoid to be biased and steer clear of prejudices. Let us all use our human rationale, gut feelings, common sense and the god given intellect.

let us open the discussions here ---

i think this is an impossible dream. having said that it would be nice to hear your ideas since i could not think of any.

[rudy-Diiriye]

qabiil and us is a lost cause! however, i usually see that the lower a person is in the chain food, education or parasitic in nature like wannabee a politican, the stronger is the aroma of qabiil.

 

somehow somali ppl that i meet on the street who dont know me assume that i am from puntland!! even the crows from my region havent reached there yet!!

 

however, i find older generation more declined to chose their associates according to qabiil. i believe that limits ones horizon! look back at our history, its full of this short-sighted visions!!

 

open your eyes! chose your friends, partners according to their goodness, trust and loyality!! one good friend worths 100 of you qabiil who r worthless phoney thugs!!

[J.Lee]

The honesty in Raganimo's some what pessimistic statement can't be ignored but it isn't as bleak as he paints it.

 

When I was young (from 1st up till 10th grade year)I was pure in my thinking of "Somalinimo" meaning I thought all somalis were one qabiil(i.e, one family)until I switched to this school that most somali kids in my city attended around my junior year..It was an eye opening experience for me and they "molested" my Somalinimo ideology. One day, we were having a Somali meeting and two students got into an arguement about who should be treasurer and I made a sarcastic remark about somalis and our love of money...and this dude remarked that I should know about love of Money since my relatives lived off and stole Somalia's taxes. Then, everybody proceeded to laugh. I didn't know what was so humorous about it so I just rolled my eyes and gave him the finger. Unknown to be, snide remarks such as that were a normal occurance in this school. Ever since that meeting I noticed my peers making comments more crude and crass about one's qabiil affliation to the point of coming to blows and oftentimes succeeding.

 

It is incidents such as these that can change somebody either for better or worse, sometimes I used to think hey! everybody is working for their qabiil they don't care about somalia or somalinimo so why do you?

They trully did molest my view of Somalis as one Family. It took me two years of soul searching and researching about past events that happened in somalia and how they effected people in a particular region. I'd tried to understand why certain people feel a certain way and why others don't share that feeling. Basically, I searched for the truth about events instead of getting the Radio Muqdisho,Hergeisa, Galkacyo, or Baardhere Version . I realized my Qabiil is part of me and I can't change which one I'm born into but neither can I change the fact that I'm somali. Religion aside I chose to be identified as a Somali first and my qabiil second.

[Xoogsade]

MsWord, I am tempted to ask if your resolution includes not to marry a man from another tribe then? And you write very good english.

 

I know this is not directly related to the topic although I somehow connected it in my mind thinking, If she was forced to abondon her prestine views by dealing with corrupted people too often, did she also decide as well to keep within the tribe where marriage is concerned?

 

As for the topic, I never relied on a tribe for anything, so even if I decide to be an active member of my tribe at this stage, I have no idea what I would contribute to them. Everything is corrupted from politics to personal views they have about THE OTHERS. The same way many among other tribes are as corrupted. If they let me share the name, that is all I aspire. What I won't accept from any somali though, is to BS me with his tribe is this or his tribe is that. I have no stomach for dealing with such bragging and empty rhetorics, bigotry and bias of any kind. How someone personally behaves towards me won't change my perception about the tribe he belongs to, cause, I can't generalize. I will treat everyone who has the wrong attitude as an aberration and move on(And I wonder if we have got in our society millions of aberrants).

 

PS: It is hard to keep faith.

[AYOUB]

Originally posted by MsWord:

I realized my Qabiil is part of me and I can't change which one I'm born into but neither can I change the fact that I'm somali. Religion aside I chose to be identified as a Somali first and my qabiil second.

I don't see nothing wrong with that either. I can understand why some people are not comfortable with qabiil but not the ones who champion 'Somalism'. The easiest of explainig the way I see things is; moi first , then my brothers, cousins, qabiil, somalis. After that neighbouring 'cousins' of Somalis like Afars Muslims and so forth and so on..

 

The people in here who think otherwise need to explain to me why it's wrong to identify or see the 'qabiil bridge' between distant cousins and others Somalis? What makes 'Somalism' right and 'Qabiilism' wrong?

 

 

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

MsWord

, I am tempted to ask if your resolution includes not to marry a man from another tribe then?

Let me guess, you're one of who would marry from any tribe as long as it's Somali, right?

[king_450]

Renounce Your own Tirbe why? Are you saying a person who has a strong value base toward his own tribe will not be able to negotiate life better?

Perhaps it is nice to listen when some one speaks because this will tell you if that person is tribalistic,rather than renouncing prematurely your own well being(Tribe).After what happened back in Somalia,especially those tribes that committed the most attrocity are the ones who want to forget and abandon about their own tribe,due to the shamefull act they have committed.Provide to me logical facts and proofs to justify why i should abandon my own Tribe? All i see and hear are voices!.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by AYOUB_SHEIKH:

quote:Originally posted by MsWord:

I realized my Qabiil is part of me and I can't change which one I'm born into but neither can I change the fact that I'm somali. Religion aside I chose to be identified as a Somali first and my qabiil second.

I don't see nothing wrong with that either. I can understand why some people are not comfortable with qabiil but not the ones who champion 'Somalism'. The easiest of explainig the way I see things is; moi first

, then my brothers, cousins, qabiil, somalis. After that neighbouring 'cousins' of Somalis like Afars Muslims and so forth and so on..

 

The people in here who think otherwise need to explain to me why it's wrong to identify or see the 'qabiil bridge' between distant cousins and others Somalis? What makes 'Somalism' right and 'Qabiilism' wrong?

 

 

Originally posted by Xoogsade:

MsWord

, I am tempted to ask if your resolution includes not to marry a man from another tribe then?

Let me guess, you're one of who would marry from any tribe as long as it's Somali, right?

That statement of yours throws up dozens of questions, saaxib!

 

First of all, let me state that I see nothing wrong with identifying with tribes, being loyal to them or using them in the political system. Political parties in their essence are tribal in nature (though they might not have tribal connections).

 

My questions, should you (or anyone else for that matter) care to answer them regard the “workings†of contemporary Somali tribes! When someone identifies, is proud of and loyal to a certain tribe, do they do this for only the superficial reason of lineage? Do these tribes have rigid structures? (Do they have identifiable leaders?)

 

Other than mere duty, and lineage (though that’s a faint point) what obliges a person to remain loyal to his tribe? Would a tribal council (or leader) banish you for disloyalty? How is a person (or person’s) punished for misdemeanours within a tribe? Who’s the arbitrator?

 

I ask these questions because this is the area of current Somali tribal behaviour that I find most puzzling! For instance, if we look at the Somaliland political system and the political parties within, I’m under the impression that these political parties work along tribal lines and loyalties. Of course, I understand that some tribes (clans) might throw their weight behind a certain party (though that might have more to do with a lack of suitable candidates of their own rather than strict adherence to “democratic†systems). However, let us leave the ruling party out of the picture for now and look at the main opposition party! Does the leader of that party, who as you and I know, is mostly supported and lionised by members of his clan, have total control over that clan? Is he, as the ancient tribal systems would say, the designated sheikh (or Sultan)? (I’m aware of the existence of other Sultans by the way).

 

Likewise with the recent elections in Puntland, again, I’m no expert on the details of these “political†manoeuvrings. However, again, I’m under the impression that the candidates would have represented two different sides (clan based of course) of the overall population of that entity! You’re all free to correct me on these assumptions by the way. The same question regarding the Somaliland tribal dynamics applies here.

 

I would not dream of going into the maze that is Southern Somalia and trying to even fathom how that conundrum is built, though I would assume that at it’s base the same structure existing in Somaliland and Puntland will be found too!

 

Now, back to Ayoub with more child-like questions. If we assume that these tribes do have leaders that issue “laws†and control the conduct of their own tribes (a farfetched assumption might I add), how does their power extend to you and me when we don’t even reside in their realm? If on the other hand, we suppose that such leaders are mere representatives of the tribe (clan) and have no power over individuals in their own tribes, how do these individuals toe the line? Why?

 

Now to the idea of being a “Somaliâ€! Can one be a Somali and endorse the concept of Qabiil at the same time? When the sister above says that she’s a “Somali†first and her tribe comes second (which you seem to have agreed with though you proceeded to contradict)! Does that mean that when the state clashes with your tribe, you’ll forsake your tribe for the bigger and better idea of the state? Will it be the other way round?

 

I apologise if my questions seem tedious and simplistic, but in order to formulate a way to renounce “Qabiil†or even argue for its survival, one needs to understand how the whole thing functions!

[Nationalist]

Some of you cut the bullshit. We are muslims and therefore we take our prophet Muhammad [css] as an example in how we live our life. The prophet [css] never renounced his qabiil and moreover was proud of the qabiil he hailed from, being aware that it was the most noble tribe of the Arab race. Therefore I personally find renouncing your qabiil as absurd as renouncing your country of origin. You are who you are and words cannot change that. Qabiil shall always be the backbone of our culture, we don't need to ban it nor do we need to learn to live with it. We merely have to stop abusing it.

[x_quizit]

^^ I agree. The main danger in being too tribalistic is that ideas of superiority and inferiority enter the picture. Ppl thinking their tribe is better than another, killing solely for that purpose,forgetting that b4 anything, we should identity ourselves as muslims, part of a larger ummah and shouldn't fall prey to the divisions mostly created by the colonizers. Making their work easier by continually in-fighting ....just saw Hotel Rwanda last night, and again, brought to surface how sometimes clanism/tribalism can poison the minds when misused and abused...and made me sick...left feeling like i would shoot anyone else who talked about tribes(which is superior and what not)...and made me also wanna leave the larger international community (west) a lil present in the form of a bomb :mad:

[Passion_4_Fashion]

god bless ur soul Nationalist......well said *clap clap* beautiful absolutely beatiful.....I could not agree with you more. You my friend are very clever....enuff said!

[wind.talker]

Originally posted by x_quizit:

The main danger in being too tribalistic is that ideas of superiority and inferiority enter the picture. Ppl thinking their tribe is better than another, killing solely for that purpose,forgetting that b4 anything, we should identity ourselves as muslims, part of a larger ummah and shouldn't fall prey to the divisions mostly created by the colonizers.

Well said.

[General Duke]

I have to give it to my boy Nationalist.. Well said. I remember Siyad Barre tried to tell the people that we should move on from the clan system. We know what effect this had.

[Blessed]

Whilst; I agree with Nationalist, Ayoub, Ms Word and Co. on the tribal issue. I think political relations as regards tribes needs to be watered down a little more. The 4.5 formula is an absolute farce as can be seen in the Kenya talks....

 

.. ya’ll might also want refer back to this old topic which covered the same ground. Some good points...

 

http://www.somaliaonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000301