Every move you make...

[Muhammad]

very interesting post Viking.

I have also spent many sleepless nights trying to understand this.

 

 

Hence Neo's statement to the Architect:

"The Problem is Choice!"

 

ps. you may enjoy this link:

 

MATTER: The Other Name for Illusion

[Viking]

Thanks Muad, I downloaded the book and will read it InshaAllah!.

[Laba-X]

Salaam

 

Viking, Your right, Had i taken a different route/course or forexample studied harder, i would have, if God Willed, performed better in the exams. But there should be no assertion of "IF" just take it as a lesson to be learned and strive harder next time.

 

Allah SWT has not decided that I will die a sinner or a pious person (this will make Him unjust for punishing me after He has destined hell-fire for me before I was conceived, and we know that He is Just and Merciful). He has given me the choice BUT Allah SWT being the All-Knowing, He knows what I will choose. We usually say that Allah SWT "has writen" after something has taken place, because we already know the outcome.

Viking, Are you stating that there is no such thing as Divine Decree and events are not predestined? Infact Allah has decided your final fate whether you will die a Monotheist or a Polythiest.

 

There is a Hadith in which once a man asked Abu Al Aswad "What is your view, what the people do today in the world, and strive for, is it something decreed for them or preordained for them or will their fate in the Hereafter be determined by the fact that their Prophets brought them teaching which they did not act upon? Abu Al Aswad said: Of course, it is something which is predetermined for them and preordained for them. The man said: Then, would it not be an injustice (to punish them)? Abu Al Aswad felt greatly disturbed because of that, and said: Everything is created by Allah and lies in His Power. He would not be questioned as to what He does, but they(the people) would be questioned

 

 

Say: ‘Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us: He is our protector’: and on Allah let the Believers put their trust.†S. 9:51

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

bismilah,

Had the muslaim elected ali at the beging of khilafah may be the situation in muslim world today would have been diffrent , of course it would hae been different. but for what for better or worse? may be if the Prophet had accepted the offer of quraysh when they offer him everything my be ur live today would have been different. of course for the worse. looking back the history of the muslims One will often find that Qadar has played a major role in who rules whom.

in first days of othen binu afan's crisis the group who layed siege on his house demanded him to hand the authority to someone they wanted, but just look what was the response of othan after he ( alledgely) consulted with marwan He (marwan ) told othman are you removing a khamis (authority) GOd has given you .( in arabic a takhlacu qamiisan qammasaka allahu) this was the very begingng of discustions and debate about the Qadar,everyone tried not to be the Firqah that prophet named ( al qadariyatu hiya majuusu hadiihi alumah) the Qadars are the Pagan of this umah.Qadar has been used so extensively in amawiyiin and cabasin period.

 

this is deeply complex and complicatted subject, in fact it is the topic that cuase so much disagreement between muslim sects. non-muslim thinker had tried so hard to turn the Qadar the only factor that pushed the muslim fight so fiercely agaist kufar in early days of islam they accused the prophet (PBUH) of being I recently read a book authored by an persian author and translated into arabic, this book is called a-linsaan walqadar. it is fantastic and clearifies so much about the relations of qadar and human ctivities. the book starts with questions why muslim declined after all the glories they achieved? what was the factor that determined their sucess at first place and what is the factor or factors that cuased their fall down? was the factor same factor but acted diferently or different factors involved?

Qadar as a pillar of iiman ( believe) has been given a huge consideration by muslim scholar of all time, from the sahaba to today's sholars. Omar(r.a) or Ali ( calaysalaam) once wanted to enter a city with cholare but he hestated and sahab asked him " a tafiru min qadarilaah" look at this question, omar's hestation was regarded by that sahabs a fear of qadar, omar's answer was precise no he said " nafir min qadari allah ila qadari alhaah" we flee from qadr to the qadar of GOd. I do not think the science of today can prove none-existance of qadar, the string theory and special realitivity si all human thinking who may not even reason why is he thinking this way.

it all a matter of faith, an " if" low laa in arabic is not islamic expression

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

bismilah,

Had the muslaim elected ali at the beging of khilafah may be the situation in muslim world today would have been diffrent , of course it would hae been different. but for what for better or worse? may be if the Prophet had accepted the offer of quraysh when they offer him everything my be ur live today would have been different. of course for the worse. looking back the history of the muslims One will often find that Qadar has played a major role in who rules whom.

in first days of othen binu afan's crisis the group who layed siege on his house demanded him to hand the authority to someone they wanted, but just look what was the response of othan after he ( alledgely) consulted with marwan He (marwan ) told othman are you removing a khamis (authority) GOd has given you .( in arabic a takhlacu qamiisan qammasaka allahu) this was the very begingng of discustions and debate about the Qadar,everyone tried not to be the Firqah that prophet named ( al qadariyatu hiya majuusu hadiihi alumah) the Qadars are the Pagan of this umah.Qadar has been used so extensively in amawiyiin and cabasin period.

 

this is deeply complex and complicatted subject, in fact it is the topic that cuase so much disagreement between muslim sects. non-muslim thinker had tried so hard to turn the Qadar the only factor that pushed the muslim fight so fiercely agaist kufar in early days of islam they accused the prophet (PBUH) of being I recently read a book authored by an persian author and translated into arabic, this book is called a-linsaan walqadar. it is fantastic and clearifies so much about the relations of qadar and human ctivities. the book starts with questions why muslim declined after all the glories they achieved? what was the factor that determined their sucess at first place and what is the factor or factors that cuased their fall down? was the factor same factor but acted diferently or different factors involved?

Qadar as a pillar of iiman ( believe) has been given a huge consideration by muslim scholar of all time, from the sahaba to today's sholars. Omar(r.a) or Ali ( calaysalaam) once wanted to enter a city with cholare but he hestated and sahab asked him " a tafiru min qadarilaah" look at this question, omar's hestation was regarded by that sahabs a fear of qadar, omar's answer was precise no he said " nafir min qadari allah ila qadari alhaah" we flee from qadr to the qadar of GOd. I do not think the science of today can prove none-existance of qadar, the string theory and special realitivity si all human thinking who may not even reason why is he thinking this way.

it all a matter of faith, an " if" low laa in arabic is not islamic expression

[Baashi]

Folks,

This sort of theory is the stuff the science fiction is made of. You see folks the theory is merely a theory nothing more. This one is more philosophy than it is science except one exception - the math. The math seems to hold up but that’s about it. You see theorists say that it will close the gap between the general relativity and quantum physics. That is to say, it will unify all natural laws into one theory if it is successful. In science, success is quantified by set of rules that this theory doesn’t meet. It’s not testable nor observable nor verifiable! Is this science or philosophy? To believe it is to have faith in some theorists' assertions that seem to see the very fabric of our whole existence without any tangible evidence.

 

When the sci-fi movies equipped with special effects project this to public domain, it takes a life of its own. Predestination, free will, mixed with the parallel existence derived from the super symmetry theory can be interesting and exciting but watch out you might get confused, I mean very confused. I for one couldn’t make sense out of this except it is elaborate and very mathematical.

 

Check this site...slide shows and interactive column is very informative also the 2 1/2 minute video...the best explanation of the string theory I've seen so far. Very interesting stuff.

[DraGon]

I wonder what am I missing by being here at Somaliaonline????

Wonder what else I could have said...uumhhh

[Muhammad]

Baashi - that program was on last week on PBS.

 

did you catch it?

 

it was breath-taking!

[Viking]

Viking, Are you stating that there is no such thing as Divine Decree and events are not predestined? Infact Allah has decided your final fate whether you will die a Monotheist or a Polythiest.

Raganimo,

What I say, I say not out of my own whims akhi, it has ample support from the Qur'an. First of all, you have to distinguish the factors that man has control over; we have no control whatsoever over matters such as sickness, "natural" disatsers (like the earthquake in Asia), blindness, death etc. They are beyond our control. But we as Muslims believe that Allah SWT will reward those who obey his commandments and punish those who disobey Him. This being a fundamental belief, we cannot again say that all is predestined because that will be denying that the Creator is Just!

 

If Allah SWT has decided what path we'll take, this means that we can not alter (in any manner) what has been pre-ordained and therefore man cannot change his course. Take a machine as an example, it is programmed (made) to do certain things, it would be ridiculous to order (or expect) it to do something other than that it was made to do. This will be unfair since the machine can't change the way it is made to function. You cannot then decide to punish the machine for not doing what you want it to do because you never equipped it with that function to begin with. Likewise, it would be unfair to say that Allah SWT has decided our destiny (whether paradise of hell-fire) and at the same time asks us to strive to take the straight path, Siratul Mustaqeem.

 

 

"Allah will not change the good condition of a people as long as they do not change their state of goodness themselves" (Ar-Rad 13:11)

 

 

"Allah burdens not a person beyond his scope. He gets reward for that (good) which he has earned, and he is punished for that (evil) which he has earned." (Al-Baqarah 2:286)

 

"Verily, We have sent down to you the Book (Qur'an) for mankind in truth. So whosoever accepts guidance, it is only for his own self, and whosoever goes astray, he goes astray only for his (own) loss." (Az-Zumar 39:41)

 

 

Let's say you know that a certain group of collegues at your work place always eat lunch at noon; your knowledge does not cause them to take their lunch at that particular time. Allah SWT knows what path each human being will take, but it does not mean that His Knowledge determines the path for us.

 

 

This sort of theory is the stuff the science fiction is made of. You see folks the theory is merely a theory nothing more.

Bashi,

This is indeed true. But we cannot be like the head of the patents in USA in the late 1800's who (after seeing the progress made by humans at that time) said that All that can be invented has been invented. Like any other theory, it has scientists for it and those who are against it. As for the mathematical aspect, I find it interesting because as a Muslim, one can imagine maybe how Allah SWT has created things and given every minute particle (physical) laws to abide to. Imagine us humans following these laws, but with a certain amound of choice to help us determine our destiny. It is interesting to say the least.

 

 

Peace.

[Laba-X]

Salaam

I very much concur with Sayfullah!

 

Viking, for some matters we must realize that we may be compelled to delegate the situation to a specially trained mind i.e A scholar/Mucallim! It is indeed a very complicated matter and May Allah forgive us if we err!

 

If Allah SWT has decided what path we'll take, this means that we can not alter (in any manner) what has been pre-ordained and therefore man cannot change his course.

it would be unfair to say that Allah SWT has decided our destiny (whether paradise of hell-fire) and at the same time asks us to strive to take the straight path, Siratul Mustaqeem.

...Everything is pre-ordained by Allah, but you have the choice to alter your course. If there were no choice then there would be no need for a revelation and all the prophets sent to each and every Ummah. it would be utterly futile wouldn't it? But Allah is Omniscient , or eternal. In terms of these ideas Allah may see the past, present and future, so Allah effectively knows the future. He is Caalim-ul-Qayb If Allah in some sense knows ahead of time and what will happen, then events in the universe are effectively predetermined from Allah's point of view. He knows where you will end up.

In your example of a machine, it makes perfect sense but it is created by a human. here the Creator is an Omnipotent Being. His creation will be questioned not HIM!

 

“Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him.†S. 4:88

 

“My counsel will not profit you if I were minded to advise you, if Allah’s will is to keep you astray. He is your Lord and unto Him ye will be brought back.†S. 11:34

 

If Allah seals your heart and causes you to err, There is no remedy, no comeback. Neither a revelation nor Messenger or Angel can help you change that fate.

[sayfulaah-almasluul]

Ghaylan aldimishiqi (-a man sluaghtered by muslim khalifah -)was the firt to suggest the free will of human being, ghaylan was as you properly know the founder of muctazilah, he oppose the ruling royal family of his periond who normaly argued that their authority is By QADAR and God given and no member of the puplic should question about it! it is absolute authority, authority in which if the if the inocent are beaten they are beaten becuase of Qadar and no one should complain about it . guys i am telling you this Qadar has been misused by awful alot of peop;e from ruler of earlyday to todays ruling families in muslim world.

Our beloved prophet PBUH was once asked about the deeds we do in this world why are we doing it is everything is pre-destined in QADAR, propphet PBUH answer " icmaluu fakulin muyasarun limaa khuliqa lahu" meaning go do continue your good deeds everyone is will naturally do what he was created for.so what about the the hadith that mentions " one of you will do good deeds all his life untill between him and paradise is less a foot distance then his book will take over and he start doing bad and enters the hell!!!"to some extent this hadith is terrifing!! God is just he never do unjust to his creatures, In the holy quran GOd says ( wamalahu bithalamin lilcabiid) suratul Qaaf.meaning God is not unjust on his servant, the questions is how are we gona have a solution between the above mentions ayah and earlier Hadith? the questions goins on how much free will do we humans have?if everything is pre-destined why are required at all to do deeds? if we do not understand the answer for this question onather questions comes into the field which is, will God demand us to do somthing we do not understand, some concept that is beyond our human understand capacity? I (sayfu allah) as one do not think God the just the AL-LATIIF AL-RAXIIM will demand us to follow and do something we can not comprehend, that is why he SBHWT snet massangers to all nations in holy quaran suratul faadir" wama min umatin illa khalaa fiahaa nadiir" there were no nation but we sent a warner.it would have been pointless to send massangers to guide humans and preach them truth if God will anyway punish them( of course God can punish whom he want and be mercifull to whom he chooses) but God is just and will never punish someone for nothing, and that is of course why Opression is prohibited .

.read this ayah ( alam najcal lahu cayneyn walisaanan wa shafateen wahadeynahu alnajideen ) didn't we give the human two eyes, a tangue and lips and we guide him the path.to my understanding we are given the complete free will!! God and stated everything clearly and let us choose with own will which way we want, therefore before we act for every actions that human do there are two possible Qadars,and which one your choose is urs!! that is the Ibdaal GOd says In holy quran ( yubadilulaahu maa yashaa wa cinddahuu umul kitaab meaning God changes what he want and the with himn is the original book( looxul almaxfuud).but we must be carefull to say things easly becuase somepoeple we get really lost in such are complex topic.we must talk to the people ( this is for the preachers) according to their capacity of knowledge, that is what our beloved peophet PBUH taught us .as I said in earlier post it is realy a matter of faith, there are many ayahs and hadith that talk about QADAR but i must addmit that the interpretations of such ayahs and hadith it is a circle of that never stops on one spot. continues like that for ever and no one can give a absolutely persuasive answer for this kind of questions, I do not know God know the best,and I pray to forgive for any error.

[Mutakalim]

Intriguing, indeed. The problem of the freedom of the will was an enquiry reserved for theologians and philosophers, from whence comes these responses of "pop science". I suppose I will start watching those movies to ascertain the truth of this matter?

 

The String Theory, despite the claim of some, is scientific. One has to understand the difference between theoritical science and applied science. According to the nomological method of science developed by Karl Popper , a theory is only scientific if it can be disproven not proven; hence the assertion that the term "scientific proof" is a classical oxymoron.

 

Theortical science, unlike applied science, does not have to be empirically "falsified", "disproven" or "refuted" to be scientific , rather it can be falsified in principle. The difference between the String Theory and the theory that there are leprechauns floating in your room is that the former is "refutable" in principle and to some extent empirically whilst the latter is not refutable aught; thusly, the latter is unscientific.

 

Inshallah, I will give the subject of Free Will and Divine Foreordainment a proper treatment in the next fortnight. Inshallah I will not delve into the abstract and intricate arguments of this subject matter as it is unintelligible to the masses, I will provide an explanation that is closer to the understanding of most Nomads.

 

With Salaams

PK

[Kruella]

WE are the sum of all our actions and choices. Our present state as individuals is due to our previous actions.

There is no sense in racking our brains with theoretical abstract thinking that will not result in anything but confusion. When it comes to making choices or acting on something, always remember that it will reflect on you and impact our lives no matter how small a matter it may be. Therefore, when it comes to making a decision always remember to live by our islamic principles of conduct and insh'allah nothing can go wrong.

 

Salamz

[Viking]

Mutakalim.

Looking forward to your contribution sxb.

 

Kruella,

That is hoepfully the lesson to be learnt by this post. We have the choice but we have to try and make the best judgement in deciding what path to take.

[Baashi]

Unlike philosophy which has an answer for everything, science deals only with physical reality - physical reality being the measurable empirical experience. Without going too much into the philosophy of science and the problem of induction (here is where Karl Popper’s falsifiable assertion comes in), it suffices to point out the importance of the centrality of the experimentation in any scientific investigation. The string theory (the little I know so far) is a hypothesis that has a working mathematical model. It is just a contention that has not (yet) been well supported or ruled out by experiment. When one projects this “scientific†hypothesis onto other realms (contentions such as the existence of parallel universe) it ceases to be scientific for the scientific methods offer no assistance for those kinds of speculation.

 

Moreover, unlike philosophers scientists don’t try to answer everything. That’s why you don’t see “refutations†and counter refutations and circular arguments in textbooks the reason being that everything pretty much is settled by the empirical data. Scientists accept the constraints imposed by the physical world. As for the theoretical vs. applied science, yes there is a distinction. The applied science is the application of the scientific knowledge to practical problems (i.e. Engineering) whereas the “theoretical†science is an attempt to understand the world by making a model of reality, used for rationalizing, explaining, predicting physical phenomena. String theory is in the inquiry stage of the scientific investigation. The wild claims made by many on its name are at par with science fiction.