Humans are inherently selfish

[Mutakalim]

Nomads

 

It has often been asserted by a great many audaciously ambitous philosophers, "thriving" theologions, and emminent ethical scientists that the rationale or the motivation, as it were, behind any Human deed is, invariably, selfishness. The selfishness I am concerned with is not the evolutionary selfishness Richard Dawkins delinates in his pseudo-philosophical book The Selfish Gene. It is imperative to apprehend that the concept of selfishness is, indeed, a mulifaceted one.

 

The moral and religous dimensions of selfishness is the subject matter of this enquiry. At the risk of committing a dicto simplicter or a sweeping generalization, I am in accord with the statement of many muslim theologians (mutakallimun), Gnostics ('irfanis), and philosophers (falasifah) that all Human actions are, forsooth, selfish in nature. This is not to say that selfishness is an unfavorable characteristic or trait; in fact, sometimes being selfish can yeild a most colossal dividend in the immediate herein and the hereafter.

 

Although the word selfishness engenders a negative connotation, it need not always posses this signification. A selfish person is an individual who is chiefly and/or ultimately concerned with himself/herself. For instance, one prays to God, so that God, exalted be He, may bestow his mercy by granting one Paradise. Thusly, one is concerned with what one will obtain for oneself (i.e. paradise); it is a most selfish but reputable deed. Do you worship Allah out of sheer love or do you worship Him so as to avoid the torment that is Hell fire?

 

Of course, there is one conspicuous exception to this pervasive proposition. A number of Sufi mystical masters claim, with cogent argument, that they worship Allah not of fear of Hell fire nor of a yearning for Paradise but of sheer Love. This is expressed eloquently in the "Ruba'iyyat" or the "quatrains" of Umar Khayyam , the eleventh century muslim mathematician and astronomer, and in the poems of the great Sufi, Jalaludiin Rumi.

 

Some persons might fulminate, "all human actions are selfish? Surely this is a great lie!" What of a mother who, not being a natatorial creature, whilst attempting to save her drowning son, also drowns? How be she selfish even though she drowns? O! what a riddle of absurdity!

 

Be it so, the dying mother still is ever selfish too. Wherefore did this mother leap into this dire den of death? Assuredly, the demise of the son is for the mother a bane and not a boon. The mother desires not to experience a biting affliction and agony. The death will have a deterimental effect on her health and spirit. Should her son die, then she will forever mourn in grief. On the other hand, should her son be alive and well, then she will be merry and gay.

 

In the end, whether one's actions and deeds stem from Divine Injunctions, Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics, Kant's Categorical Imperative, G.E. Moore's Principa Ethica, the action will ultimately be self-motivated and selfish.

 

Think you that Humans, by selfishness, thrive? Perhaps we ought to give credence to the American Writer, Mark Twain (psedonym), for enunciating that " All our acts, reasoned and unreasoned, are selfish. "

 

With Salaams

PK

[Alle-ubaahne]

All prophets of Allah were humans, does your philosophy consider them as diametrically selfish? If so, I wonder why you let those psychotic and unprincipled thinkers think for you!

[Mutakalim]

All prophets of Allah were humans, does your philosophy consider them as diametrically selfish?

 

The prophets of Allah, peace be upon them, are not selfish, far from it, fair freind. The muslim exegete(mufassir), Zamakhshari, writes in his exegesis of the Quran, Al-Kashshaf, that the interpretation of the word "ancama" in the the ayah " اولائك الذين انعم الله عليهم من النبيين والصديقين والشهداء" signifies that Allah has given prophets the ability of "selfless worship". That is to say, these righteous persons worship Allah out of sheer love not so that they maybe pardoned from Hell or that they be granted Paradise. Of course, for those of us who have not reached a station in soul purification, we cannot act selflessly.

 

Also, Allah will not punish those who are incapable and unwilling to act selflessly in as much as they observe the Divine Injunctions. Altruism is a exotic fruit that is eaten by a select few.

 

Merry are they, indeed, who are intoxicated by the Love of Allah.

 

Pray, Good Baahane, why did you reply to this topic? Was it a selfish or a altruistic act?

[Paragon]

To paraphrase it, "Man is selfish at best and evil at worst" by the NeoClassical realist Hans J. Morgenthau.

[Coloow]

Homoeconomicus- the notion that human beings are driven by greed.

 

Mutakalim, I agree 100% relationships between human beings have selfish bonds.

[Mutakalim]

Jamaal_11:- Do you suppose that all men are "selfish at best". Is altruism attainable by someone who is not a prophet? Would I be understanding you aright in making the suppostition that you believe that Humans are intrinsically selfish?

 

Caaqil:- At the outset of this treatise, I have unequivocally expounded that the moral aspect of selfishness is the subject of this thread. Even our worship or "cibaadah" is ultimately selfish. Can you think of but one act that is not selfish? If you know of some such deeds, pirthee, apprise me of it.

[Viking]

Mutakallim,

Humans are ineherently selfish, that's why we have laws set up by our Creator. I believe Prophets and Messengers are sent for the same reason, despite being told who the Creator is and what to do (and not to do), humans end up being slaves to their whims and desires. Eventually ending up in the deep 'gutters' where our lusts become our conscience.

 

Some acts of charity can be purely unselfish. Take for example you see an old lady wanting to cross the road but has difficulty walking; without even giving it much thought, you rush towards her, hold her hand and help her cross to the other side.

 

I don't think you can refer acts of 'cibaadah' as selfish because the five pillars of Islam are 'personal'. You cannot do other people's Shahada, Salat, Zakat and Saum. Allah SWT has ordained us to do them and we have to follow it, whether it's out of love or out of fear of eternal torment, we have to do it. You can make du'a for others but, but it's ultimately up to them to make an effort to gain Allah's Rexmah.

[QUANTUM LEAP]

To be selfish means to look out for one's own interests, i.e. one's own life. To eat to support your life is selfish. To use one's mind in the pursuit of ones own happiness is selfish.

 

One of the big paradoxes of human civilization is that we disparage selfishness even as we secretly embrace it as our most fundamental driving force. From the time we're young, we're taught that selfishness is bad and as we grow up, we're bombarded with the message that "giving" is better than receiving. The icons of morality are those who have selflessly given of themselves to others.

 

The Self Purpose must be contrasted with "selfishness" which I think means concentrating too much on one's owns needs. Taken to an extreme, selfishness is the very apotheosis of evil. However, the reality is that we owe our very existence to our inherent drive to improve our own condition. We, as individuals are all in competition for a share of the earth's wealth. The more we get, the better, but the more satisfied we are, the less energy we're willing to expend to get more. When our very survival is in question, we are capable of almost anything. We exhibit virtues in direct proportion to what we can afford. If we're starving and find a wallet with money, our sense of honesty is different than if we're fairly well off. When we have a family to protect, the intensity of our selfishness increases.

 

In reality, selfishness is one of those most consistent and useful of human attributes. It's the guiding force behind not only survival, but the degree of comfort in which you and your family live. It's the universal foundation upon which all human interaction is conducted. Selfishness is the basis for sincere generosity. People give to gain something in return, even if it's only the feeling of having supported a worthy cause.

 

And, of course, selfishness is what underlies effective cooperation. The very existence of civilized society is a product of every individual's own self-interest.

[Paragon]

"Is altruism attainable by someone who is not a prophet?"

 

Mutakallim, say altruism is a desired (good) thing, and for one to attain it, one must 'seek' it. In 'seeking' to attain it, one thus is in a selfish quest for that which is good. So I believe it can't be attained. Its something that has to be there to begin with, since endeavouring to attain it amounts to selfishness. "Would I be understanding you aright in making the suppostition that you believe that Humans are intrinsically selfish?" Mutakallim we are physically and spiritually in continual state because of the very act of selfishness. We can't affort to be selfless and without it we won't eat, drink, think or live.All Human acts (except prophets - though every living thing needs selfishness to survive) are selfish; the only difference between humans is the degree to which they are selfish. We are good when our selfishness is morally acceptable; bad (evil) when it is not acceptable morally.

 

"Some acts of charity can be purely unselfish. Take for example you see an old lady wanting to cross the road but has difficulty walking; without even giving it much thought, you rush towards her, hold her hand and help her cross to the other side."

 

Viking, is it really altruistic? Let me see if I can make helping an old lady a selfish act! If you ask me, I would say in helping the old lady, one habours vested interests. In society, when the weak is helped it is not because we are good or altruistic in nature. Its because today this weak lady needs you because you are strong; you will need the same help tommorrow from someone stronger than you as you grow weaker and older. You don't have a choice. If you don't help; those stronger than you when you are in the lady's situation wouldnt stop to help you. So you must help the old lady because of your long-term interests. If you need a clearer example, look at how selfish the new-born baby is; it cries when it needs milk. Another reason why one helps the old is to obtain instant joy in your soul. Helping makes one feel better, so when you help, you seek that good feeling and thus you are selfish.

 

PS: That is not to mention the exceped rewards from Allah in helping a suffering Human being .

[Coloow]

Mutakalim

 

"Can you think of but one act that is not selfish?"

 

It depends on one defines "selfishness" and in what kind of context.

 

How about the bond that exists between mom and offspring? I don't think that is a selfish act.

[Viking]

J11,

You are confusing sympathy and empathy with selfishness. When I help the old lady cross the street, I do it because either I feel sorry for her (sympathy) and since I am human, I could imagine how I would have felt if (lets say I was old) someone helped me across the street, I would have appreciated it very much (empathy). The third aspect would be doing it simply vecause it is a good deed, but how can you tell if it's a good if you don't get feedback (good feeling, a rewarding sensation, as opposed to guilt when you do something bad)?

 

 

You don't have a choice. If you don't help; those stronger than you when you are in the lady's situation wouldnt stop to help you

Akhi, I do indeed have a choice. I am not helping her for the reasons you stated above because I have no guarantee that I will live long enough to experience old age and the difficulties that come with it. I know that I can kick the bucket anytime, so it's not the 'investment' you are making it out to be. Secondly, there isn't anyone (human) taking records of your deeds so that they could take revenge on you when you attain old age for the actions/inactions of your youth.

 

I'd like to believe that we help the weak and needy because it is the right thing to do. How do we know this? Allah SWT through his Messengers PBUT and books have taught us this, plus our Creator has created us with a mechanism that helps us distinguish right from wrong (our conscious).

 

There's a hadith that says, "Paradise is under your mother's feet". You would be kind to your mother because Allah SWT tells you so, because it's the right thing to do, or because these actions lead to rewards in the hereafter. If you do it for the love of Allah SWT, it's a very noble thing. But you can also do it in order to avoid hell-fire, which also benefits you in the end. At the end of the day, the level of your 'imaan' determines the reasons for your choices.

[QUANTUM LEAP]

First of Im thinking of selfishness in both a positive out look and a negative one. Positive in that we all strive to be successful in whatever we put our minds to. However, what one strives for that could also be positive is when one tries to belittle another to a chieve a specific goal. A case in one would be the US elections where Bush calls Kerie weak interms of his decision making process just to get into the white house now that is positive selfishness in the Bush camp and Negative where Kerie is concerned. I suppose its the degree of selfishness and whoever it affects.

 

Caaqil- Amothers bond to her child is selfish in that she needs her immortality guarantteed through her ofsprings and you could also conclude that her satisfaction and happiness of having asuccessful life would be in her mind. As for the child its all about survival like when its born, it comes out crying and the mother who knows better direct the baby to the breast for its survival.

 

Viking wouldnt the level of sympathy and empathy be a selfish act in itself depending on the level of sympathy and empathy.

[Paragon]

^^^^ I agree. Levels determine what is and what isnt.

 

Originally by Viking, "J11,

You are confusing sympathy and empathy with selfishness."

 

Brother sympathy (almost of all of it) and empathy are but selfish feelings. People sympathize and help others because they don't wish to be in the situation someone suffering is in. Thus by helping, they are avoiding to 'feel bad' inside. Sympathy is the name given to the feeling we get when we relate to others' pain, while apathy is the name for when we dont. Its this ability to seperate feelings and think new terms for them that makes Humanity such a unique race. Other than that, there is nothing special about Humanity. Below are some quotes that may be relevant to this subject.

 

--

All sympathy not consistent with acknowledged virtue is but disguised selfishness.

Samuel Taylor Coleridge

 

Sympathetic people often don't communicate well, they back reflected images which hide their own depths.

George Eliot

 

PS: Empathy is possibly tiggered by (unconscious) selfishness.

[Viking]

Jamaal,

I would suggest you reread the first quote you posted. If I'm not mistaken, it supports my claim. In doing a virtuous deed, i.e. helping others because one feels sympathy or empathy (or because Allah SWT tells us it is the right thing to do) is not a selfish act. A person who is indifferent (apathetic) about others' suffering (or problems) is the selfish one in this case because they think of only themselves and cannot be bothered to help out others.

 

 

Let's say you and I are having lunch at an outdoor bistro when a poor, hungry, homeless man approaches us. You feel sympathy (or empathy) and share your meal with him while I am indifferent and not even bothered by this man's situation (apathy). How then can you explain your actions as selfish? I always thought that people who are apathetic were selfish.

[Curly]

At last someone decides to talk about something worth talking about!

 

I honestly believe that selfishness is in our genes, it is something that no one can escape. If the simplest of life forms such as bacteria, who are unable to display emotions can present actions that are surprisingly similar to so called “selfish acts†that how can we be free of it?

 

I recently read froman article on newscientist, that a group of mutant bacteria have been identified who due to their selfish characteristics have been dubbed “freeloadersâ€. These freeloaders are unable to form fruiting bodies for reproduction and so they form spores and greedily push their own genes into the next generation. However once these selfish freeloaders proliferated rapidly into the community this obviously displaces the normal ratio of fruit body forming bacteria. And this eventually leads to a dramatic population crash and therefore whole colonies perish entirely.

 

Getting back to the topic at hand I would say that yes, Mutakallim I completely agree with you at times it seems that the most virtuous and religious of us exhibit selfishness to some degree if not the most. I can’t help but think that some of these religious individuals are too caught up with what they stand to gain (i.e. rewards) from a charitable action than say what the receiver stands to gain. But yet the same is evident with those who are not religious or not even Muslim, when they are charitable they usually think of the praise they’ll receive from others and the receiver that what good comes from the actual deed and to those in need. So I guess it's safe to assume that are different types of selfishness, some more obvious and some more acceptable than others.

 

Therefore indubitably your guaranteed to find yourself in this situation constantly. I was recently faced with a dilemma this Ramadan while at the mosque. There was a public collection where people were openly asked to make pledges as to how much they will donate. Obviously this was being used as a method to ultimately raise a very large sum of money by putting people on the spot and so encouraging potentially selfish acts, where individuals will be given a platform on which people can give only to receive praise rather than be giving (Which I believe diminishes the whole point of giving charity!). Anyways, I found myself contemplating over what my real intentions were if I were to join in on their little charade. Would it be for a little praise, to gain rewards in hope that it’ll help secure me a place in heaven or genuinely out of the pure intention that what I give would be helping those less well off.

 

However, I would like to conclude that like these selfish bacteria, our greed and selfishness will only result in our demise as an entire race. But if I was given a choice I would choose the selfish want for praise and rewards over the greedy selfish want for power and wealth any day!

 

"Altruism to me would be perfection and humans are far from perfect!" Quoted from me!