Integrating Muslims in the West, what does it mean for the Ummah?

[- Femme -]

You say all that and wait for a postitive reply? What an optimist!!

[Alle-ubaahne]

Femme Fatale,

 

ehehehe, your common sense impresses me indeed.

 

Professor NGONGE,

 

Are you insane here! Wait a minute....... Did you say I still have faith in you? The fraudulent wicked that you even consider him as the biggest ignorant swat! Remember I was your most despicable and irritating person in the forum.

 

Is it possible that you wrote such statements under the influence of some drugs, (assuming that you preffer Vodka, the russian type of drinks which compell drinkers to excessively rely on it). Tell me, saaxiib, to be a westerner you need to be a proud drinker, since drinking is part of the culture you embraced. [True/False]. Like you know the somalis, you can't be Somali and not drink tea, right? Remember the famous Somali saying that says "Rag waa shaah iyo sheeko."

 

Now, I have to be frank with you and decline your unworthy praises. Inform me the least reason, if any, to accept of your mindless praises when you harshly exercise your all-out assault on me. What happen to your Professorship, Mr. Westerner!? I thought you were more intellegent than that, how come you dismiss our animosity without any legal settlements, ehehe, i.e. without withdrawing from your westerner attitude and rejoin your long forgotten Somalis.

 

Doctor Drinker, you can enjoy the slurrs you normaly throw at me, but not attempt any more praises, because each praise reveals your inability to stay on course and being resolute. I understand how remarkable you are, in terms of your loyalistic pretendency of western culture. And that is what matters here. Oh yeah, you selected that without anybody forcing you to it. I admit your honesty side for the west, but from my perspective, it makes you a major traitor.

 

I concern your rapidly evolving personality and multi-dimensions. One side of a traitor while the other is an stoogy, combines this double personality of hypocracy. Well, you are an smart traitor here, cause you take that risky for a reason, just to expand your financial horizons.

 

Your dramatic catchup with the western values deserves this big salutations. Let me know in case you attain something out of that deviation. At least your choices are not limited to spokesman positions, but you can as well apply for spy positions. Aren't you a fortunate that you are a linguist who speaks perfect Arabic. Its hot and of course a growing field. These should count as of now and then enhance your fading esteem, right?

 

Finaly, Mr. NGONGE, whatever I say to you doesn't reflect my wrath against you, and you know what I mean for that. Most of my remarks pinpoint directly to your formless phillosophy rather than your personality. I certainly said traitor and stoogy to you, but that only applies the philosophy you adhere to as well as the mentors who brutally shaped yourself this way. My only remorse is that we are beginning to suffer from the colonial influences we resisted strongly, in a place where the resistance of my fellow NGONGE proved so futile for some materialistic reasons.

 

Saaxiib, do you disagree that you sell off your ethnicity in the daylight? For what reasons? Let me soften my words, are you happy with where you are now? sorry, I can't visualize the bliss, if any, of integration and assimilation with the western cultures.

[NGONGE]

Heh. I’m waiting for this cyber torrent of yours to cease and my earlier questions to be addressed, fraudster.

It is simple stuff really. Why are you unable to reply? What’s with all this guff?

 

Now, instead of writing a page’s worth of nonsense, how about writing me a couple of lines that address my disagreement with you and prove that you’re talking from a position of knowledge rather than one of sentiment and emotion, saaxib. Can you do this?

 

Am I correct in assuming that you strongly refuse the idea of integration (not that you’ve defined what you understand by that idea), you vehemently reject assimilation (not that you’ve defined that one either) and you passionately abhor any that would discuss it or consider it! Am I on the right track here?

 

If I’m wrong, correct me and tell me what do YOU stand for and why?

 

It really is not that hard, saaxib. Come on; surprise me with a reasoned argument.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Professor Drinker,

 

Caayda jooji hadaa rabtid in lagula hadlo, ok. Or else the upcoming chants will drive you more tense until you can't help but drink your western drugs for the good of remaining disoriented in the real world. Why can't you respond on my tons of questions if you were serious about debating. A dishonest traitor always knows nothing but to drink and escape the facts. That is too bad, Mr. Integrationist!

 

Are you being patient so far? Look here, how many fingers do you see, (from my hand), just testing if the toxic in your mind has faded or not. Please don't drink and write at the same time.

[Paragon]

Nice going! Gentlemen, continue, as you were!

[Alle-ubaahne]

The following news article is a tragic direct result integration. This guy is a Somali of Arabian background; I meant he spent some time of his life in Arab countries. I am realizing now that the integrationist people can do everything for the love of the west. Check this Gaal's story and how unfortunate he happen to be:

 

Freed Somali Christian Arrives in New Zealand

'It was God who saved me,' Haji declares.

 

By Barbara G. Baker | posted 9/6/00

Yesterday, four days after they flew out of Yemen, Somali Christian convert Mohammed Omer Haji and his family arrived for permanent religious asylum in Auckland, New Zealand.

 

"This is a very far place here," a sleepy Haji told Compass by telephone today.

 

More than 24 hours after their arrival, the Somali refugee said he and his wife Sarah were still sleeping off the four marathon days and nights they had spent in planes and airports between Yemen and New Zealand. After the initial leg of their journey to the Eritrean capital of Asmara, they were routed through Jeddah, Bombay, Singapore and Sydney.

 

"Really it was God who saved me," the former Muslim told Compass. "I am happy that all the believers prayed for me everywhere, Christian people," Haji said. "It's a miracle that I am free."

 

Haji, 27, was released from a Yemeni prison in Aden on August 24, seven weeks after a local judge threatened to execute him for apostasy if he did not return to Islam. The case was halted in the courts after it was reported in the international press.

 

After extended negotiations with local representatives of the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR), under which Haji had official refugee status, the government of Yemen agreed to allow Haji and his family to be deported for resettlement elsewhere.

 

A refugee living in Yemen since 1994, the Somali had converted to Christianity two years ago and adopted the name George. He was first jailed last January by Yemeni security police, who reportedly beat him and tried for two months to coerce him to return to Islam. Haji was later rearrested and put on trial in June for apostasy, a capital offense under the strict Islamic law observed in Yemen.

 

"There is no religious freedom in Yemen," Haji commented. "Nobody knows about Jesus, and it's a sin to believe in Him."

 

The former Muslim had been given a one-week ultimatum at his July 5 trial to recant his faith in Christ and return to Islam, or face execution. Four days later, he told Compass, the judge at a closed-door July 9 hearing on his case offered to "give me everything I wanted" if Haji would come back to Islam.

 

"I don't want everything, I want Jesus Christ. I don't want anything else. If I die, I die with Jesus. He died for me and also for you," he said he told the judge. Although UNHCR staff were present at this hearing, Haji's court-appointed lawyer was neither informed nor invited.

 

According to the Somali refugee, one of the many miracles he experienced while in jail for his Christian faith was actually forgiving the Yemeni policeman who had beaten him the most. "That man, he beat me so much," he said. "But I forgive him, because of Christ."

 

Haji and his wife and son are being housed temporarily at the New Zealand Immigration Service's refugee resettlement center in Auckland. Several local churches have applied to sponsor the Haji's resettlement process since the New Zealand government offered the family asylum in late July.

 

Do you see inside the mind of Integrationist People, they are realy all in love with everything about the White Man.

[NGONGE]

Oh, my dear charlatan. Quit sneaking up on me in such a way.

 

I promise to reply to your evasive questions as soon as you justify your first statements. I don’t recall calling you any names, saaxib.

Are you referring to being called a fraud, a charlatan, an impostor? These are not names, saaxib. These are descriptions of a con man. So far, you’ve proved them all to be CORRECT.

 

At least now you’re showing signs of boredom with this whole thing (I’m bored of it too). So, how about we start again. Take it from the top and justify, explain and clarify your comments with proofs.

 

I suspect that you’re one of those that scan posts quickly and never take the time to read and comprehend. I suspect that you also have the same failing when posting your own replies. So, to make life easy for you, here is a recap of some of your comments. Take your time, read them and think them over. I doubt you’ll have a problem comprehending them (they’re your words after all).

 

 

 

Indeed, am very confused about the flip-flopping state of these people! Our religion is under attack round the clock, and none of them is acting in defense of it. Those who acted are smeared on their backs. No wisdom, no courage and no meaningful position. I can see the absense of sound knowledge in their writings, and thus they are running around and calling each other 'articulate, eloquent and awesome'.

 

Walaahi aduunkaan dadka qaarkiis waa wax lala yaabo, cajiib. Ilaahoow nahanuuni, adaa hanuunka bixiyee, aamiin.

Need to see your "sound knowledge", saaxib.

 

 

 

Mr. NGONGE,

 

It seems that you are legitimizing something that is very much in contradiction with the teachings of Islam. In Islam, there is no dispute whatsoever as to the treatment of Murtad. The quran and the Sunnah speak precisely about the exact punitive justice for murtad without any discrepancies. And my question to you is how come your little knowledge doesn’t relate to any references on the bases of Islam? Where did you get that?

 

According to the wide spread consensus of the Ulumaa, it was said, †The punishment prescribed by the shari'a for apostacy is death.†Check the many books of the major scholars under the subject of apostasy, you find numerous instances where there is clearly ruled the punishment of the murtad. So far, I can’t see where you took the so-called disputes between the scholars on the issue of murtad punishments.

 

Let’s not talk about views or what some people think of something outside the Islamic premises. I don’t mind talking about the analysis of certain views, but the subject we’re engaging here is at religious perspectives, and there is no room for us to exercise our surmises and personal point of view. Therefore, its always a wise thing to refrain from such mischievous falsehoods over Islam. This is a warning for you and I, in case we mistakenly overlook the consequences of that.

 

Now, you said, “The film maker was not a Muslim†therefore, he, “is not the first ever non-believer to criticise Islamâ€. I found two gross mistakes from here. First you implied the gaal as a peaceful one, and dismissed his hostile warring blasphemy. And secondly, you painted his major blasphemy as nothing but a simplistic by extenuating and minimizing his blasphemy as criticism. I think you know English more than me, but tell me why you choose criticism instead of blasphemy?

 

Or may be in this case you are a self promoted human rights activist, which I don't mind, but please, speak of the truth and be objective. The gaal has done what even many non-believers viewed as a major violation, of course, in any religion and law. Look my brother, in physics there is a newtonian theory which says every action has a subsequent reaction. I can say the film has a purpose and so do the killing.

So many statements to counter mine but WHERE is your PROOF? Don't just state something that you can't back up with evidence.

 

 

Legal reactions? Yes, in one of the famous narrations, it says, whoever can stop a wrong doing, let them do so by their hands, if not, by their tongues, and if not, by their hearts, which is the least of imaan. this I believe applies to the case at hand.

 

But anyway, there are both legal and historical precedents in Islam for such cases, as the killing concerns. I would suggest you to find out for your self and at least read the biography of the Prophet, in relation to his orders against the poet in Meddina who used to penetrate his critical blasphemy to the Prophet and Islam in the form of poems.

Almost slipped there and hinted at a situation in Islam. Who’s the poet? What did he do or say?

Proofs, saaxib. Proofs.

 

 

Look saaxiib, I fully respect you as a muslim, and somali brother. But I oppose the entire philosophy you stand for. You think the killing of that criminal was wrong, according to your western-minded perception, and I think it was absulately the right thing to do. Because he offended our religion, period.

 

Not only that is my opinion, but its also how our religion rules such cases. If you don't believe me, ask the people of knowledge. Its obvious that you are more than wrong here. And indeed we are fortunate that your position is marginal and off the mark from the majority of muslim community.

Another post, yet more ducking and diving. Notice the lack of proof, saaxib? When you say, “Not only that is my opinion, but its also how our religion rules such cases†you are supposed to follow it up with examples, fatwas and historical proofs, saaxib. You don’t just say that’s how it is and that’s that. It is a debate, remember!

 

 

Alle Ubahanane,

I think that (atleast according to Abu Hanifa), a non-Muslim cannot be senteced to death for blasphemy. Women (like in the case of Ayan Hirsi) are NOT to be killed according to Islamic jurisprudence, they are given a chance to reiterate and then imprisoned if that doesn't help.

Viking helped you out here with what he "thought" was Abu Hanifa's take on such cases(note the subtle difference between your words and his?). What was your reply to that?

 

 

Haye vicking,

 

Where abu Hanifa is saying that, no killing, just imprisonment? I guess you can't prove what Prof. NGONGE has failed to prove. I will listen whatever you present, but be ready for any rejections if that will not comform the purest sense of Islam.

What is the "purest sense of Islam"?

Don’t spew all these sanctimonious statements. Back them up with sound reason and substantiations.

 

 

Are you embarrassed yet?

 

PS

 

My patience is wearing thin. Do get your act together please.

[Alle-ubaahne]

ehehe, The toxic in your head is still causing you to swirl around and jump to my already supported case against your weak and defenseless arguments. Man, you need to respond or else admit your mental stagnation on issues of black and white. Mr. Professor, I know you like people calling you professor, but in my definition, your professorship stands for drinking and writing for the advocacy of integration.

 

By the way, did you KNOW the converted Somali guy in the article? I imagine you were somewhere in the Arabian countries before you moved to England, (as indicated on your membership tag in SOL), to submit for your dearly inclined integration with the white man.

 

Am very interested, as well, to know your genuine position on Ayan Xirsi. I know she is your supposedly hero for integration in the fullest sense. I sense you are always afraid to admit your alliegancy for those infamous people, but sometimes in the midst of your drunk-writing, certain fullproof words slip of your unprincipled mouth, and unfortunately that reveals the danger in yourself as an extreme integrationist.

 

I would say to you, please take your heels away from these forums since you can't persuade anyone with your love-based integrationism. I don't think anyone is interested to listen your marginal, outcasted and wicked philosophy of integration. You have no valid credibility in your once-up-on-a-time people, Somalis. You lost in the forest of white society, pushing and pretending round the clock to knee down for their values.

 

You finaly had chosen for yourself to live in a toxic life, and dream for the advocacy of integration with a society that doesn't approve your infinitely unproductive self. Please, don't despair, there is always a way out from the self-inflicted mess you are in now. Just ask for help, and stop your meaningless adherence to that suicidal idea of western integration. Also, cease your destructive habit of drinking and writing once and for all. And whatever credibility that you've lost in this battle, may be I am glad to restore it for you gradualy by spreading substantial advertisements of good news about you.

 

Now, its your personal responsibility to retreat from that serious and degrading direction, and come clean from the believe of integrationism. I know you dislike about my truth, but remember I once was this guy you had in faith of his idealism. I can become a cytalist for your correction. But again, you need to consider those progressive guidelines to save your self from further damages, ok.

 

Good luck Professor NGONGE!

[NGONGE]

^^^Still blathering, charlatan? Still dodging the issue, fake Mullah? Still making assumptions, phoney?

 

Enough already! I have used up enough time and cyber space on this one-way discussion, fraudster.

It reached a stage where it’s neither advantageous nor compelling! I see no reason for prolonging this worthless charade. Take care and happy flaming, impostor.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Interesting! Your defense skills had totaly disappeared, right? Ok, Professor Drinker. I let you go if you chosen that way, but watch out your faulty integrationist believes. Watch out, as well, your drinking and writing habits. Watch out the danger of integration advocacy. And finaly, watch out the consequances of what you do today for the Hereafter.

 

Wishing you the best luck, insha allah, and be mindful to restrain your slurrs from others. Because, caayda aa taqaanid iney dad kugu dirto maahee wali qofna kaama celin. Dagaalkeena was prompted by your choice of abusive words, therefore, I brotherly advice you to overcome your ciyaalnimo attitude.

 

May I say forgive me forgive you?