Freedom and Democracy, do you buy that?

[NGONGE]

Sue,

 

I seem to have confused myself and confused you with me by my last comments. In talking about Democracy and Freedom being old concepts, I was talking about their origins in ancient Greece and Rome, etc..

 

I believe you’re talking about modern capitalist democracies. You are right in criticising the shortcomings of such governmental systems. But, you seem to mix the ideology with the details!

I’m also a bit lost on your objection to the world’s lone superpower trying to dictate and force the rest to follow its way. I don’t think that the actions of that country conflict in anyway with it’s democratic principles! After all, it’s only obliged to do the best to benefit its own citizens and not the rest of the world. I agree that corruption and lies do exist but they’re minuscule when compared to the type of corruption and decay you would find in dictatorships.

 

If democracy is all about giving the people the power to decide, then modern capitalists’ societies do adhere to these rules. The propaganda and campaigning that comes with that might influence things but, ultimately, the choice still remains with the people. The recent Spanish elections is testimony to that; everyone was expecting the government of Aznar (sp?) to be returned but the terrorist attack that occurred a day before the elections and the reaction of the government to it changed things.

 

Communism is the opposite of capitalism (since we’re talking about capitalist democracies here). In fact, many of the Marxist theories were formulated as an alternative (reaction) to capitalism. I don’t have a problem with freedom and equality. I have a problem with the Marxists interpretation of equality. It disregards ability, inheritance, etc. All the means of production are owned by the state (the means of production would include lands and many other private properties). The state dispenses it equally to the populace! At least that’s how it says in the theories.

 

As you can see, I’m being very brief in my explanation of all these concepts. I have yet to mention Islam and it’s systems of government. To be brutally honest, I’m lost. I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at.

 

Is it democracy in its general sense?

Freedom in its general sense?

Capitalist democracies (let’s just call it capitalism to make things easier)?

The conduct of modern western governments?

 

Or

 

Are you just asking for the best system of government?

[Alle-ubaahne]

NGONG,

 

I think the sister is asking what is the perfect system of governance that can produce a satisfiable results for the people under it? Tell her in details that it is Islam.

 

Sullen Sue, Abaayo, to be honest with you, I was never and will ever be a sexist. All I was trying to say is to admit my ignorance pertaining to the customery lifestyle for the somali women: It was hard for me to digest that our beautiful women do have a similar interest in politics with men. Am I clear now for any ambiguities? Take it tartiib, Ok. lol

[OG_Girl]

Sue, my friend I am back to your topic, not cause I have answers or solution BUT just few points we can discuss .

 

I was talking to close friend of mine and we both agreed the Islam is the answer .

 

Thinking how Islam could be implemented and the answer is simple I believe... hear me out

 

the answer lies in a model like the EU-- where each country will implement their own interperpation and so on. But at higher level we agree the basic fundemntal belifes and make our politics the same.

 

Note: (As long as people of the world with different ideologies exist, other people will see them as a threat in whatever way, shape, or form).How we make others don't feel a threat from Islamic system?

 

Just an idea what you think of it?

 

Salam

[Alle-ubaahne]

OG Girl,

 

I disagree strongly abaayo. EU can never be a modal for the Muslim Ummah. I don't know if you are familier the current economic complications of the Euro monatery. There are an emerging new disputes as to who should decide and balance the overall ecomony of EU, bankers or government financial institutions.

 

One of the major factors that brought the EU members together was to expand the economic activity within the envisioned european territories, and that is appearing to many analyst as an impossible reality, because of the underlying gigantic problems pertaining to the decision making aspects and the powerful nations who are subjugating others to accept their strategies.

 

My point is this, EU is not a role modal for the Muslim ummah, period. Our role modal is clear, the Quran, and the traditional prophetic ahaadiith. Ma fahamtay, hadda?

[OG_Girl]

I don't know if you understand me or not. We already agreed about Islamic system BUT I am now taking how to apply!!

 

World changed, you can't sit there and ignore every thing around you and wait for Mahdi comes out and unite us!!

 

The world is no longer comprised of two magnets as it was a few decades ago. It is heading towards massive strategic blocs - that is, European Union (EU) and Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

 

Knowing that Europe and other big players are trying to book a place for themselves in tomorrow's world, the US is interested in disrupting oil flow to such huge competitive blocs.

In the eastern hemisphere we have China whose GDP (gross domestic product) is expected to overtake America's in the future.

 

Hmm..you can't even make one Islamic state, and you thinking to unite under Quraan!!!

 

Every one preparing for tomorrow but us still singing For Islam...OK OK Islam but how?

 

Can you imagine how many versions of Sharia law there will be ,and the last three Khalifs were killed because someone didnt like their version of things!!!.

 

Don't be mad I am just brainstorming!!. Just thinking laudly.

 

Salam

[Alle-ubaahne]

Ok, OG Girl

 

Now, tell me your application of the sharia governance? As of now, am here to read whatever you submit thru this forum pages.

[DraGon]

"The world is no longer comprised of two magnets as it was a few decades ago. It is heading towards massive strategic blocs - that is, European Union (EU) and Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

 

Knowing that Europe and other big players are trying to book a place for themselves in tomorrow's world, the US is interested in disrupting oil flow to such huge competitive blocs.

In the eastern hemisphere we have China whose GDP (gross domestic product) is expected to overtake America's in the future."

 

Makes me wonder where did I read this????

Hmmm OG-Girl seems like we read the same articles, it will be nice if you give credit where it belongs.

[Alle-ubaahne]

DraGon,

 

Are you here to uncover the tactics of Miss OG Girl? Come on, that is not a relevant behaviour. Let's assume that everything she wrote belonged to her, but what happen after all I said, forward your agenda and world views, and yet she prolonged in silence!

 

OG Girl, my waiting session is over, I guess.

[DraGon]

Alle

I am not going to assume because I know better.

 

I a have nothing against the OG-Girl, but to copy an article wholesale and pass it as your ideas, is simply wrong!!! I agree with what she copied its a valid statement and general knowledge but atleast she should have rephrased to her own style or just name the source of the article.

[Curly]

Well I'd have to say...she's rather well read.

 

So I'll give credit where it's due!

[DraGon]

Sue said

"Well I'd have to say...she's rather well read."

 

If you read my initial post i gave her the same credit differently.

[Curly]

Erm, yeah I did read that too but I wasn’t too sure because of all the indirect mockery, But hey does that mean I can't say it either? (Even though I really mean it?) :confused:

 

lol, really though… cut her some slack the sarcasm was just a tad much, don’t you think?

[OG_Girl]

Salam All,

 

I am back after long week school...lol

 

Alle I am so sorry my brother i did not go silent on you, Last saturday I started my School. Is only allowed me to use internet in my weekends only Thrusdays and fridays.

 

Any ways.... I wanted some one to stop me long time ago when I was saying Islam can't unite cos we have so many versions of Share'a!! As Islamic Student, I wanted some one says that Islam is not only for muslims Is for all humanbeen, whatever you are a muslim or not will make every one happy cause Islam is ALL about justice, and free for other region followers whatever Christans or Jew.

 

Dragon, wallalo...I study Islamic Law and my minor is Economic that is why I am very big fan about Islamic economic system....And what I wrote is exactly what they teaching us and by the way is not an Artical is my text book in my university ....is explains a lot in it...I don't know if you are Arabic speaker..this is our text book which is Arabic.

 

Sue , thanks sweetheart.

 

PS:Elle, Brother, Why you waitting my opinion? we all were just bla bla to get a point, So I want hear your point of few too.

 

If you want we can talk Islamic system cause that what I study.

 

Salam