Are Mosques really sister-friendly?

[Jumatatu]

It seems the bait of LAURIE GOODSTEIN the author of the article caught many fish.If at anything she, GOODSTEIN, succeded in her aim, which obviously was not to advocate the liberty and right of Moslim women within Islam but rather the contrary to create deep rift among those who would applaud her notion without questioning her intention and those who will despise her intrusion. True it is an issue that exists but not to the extend GOODSTEIN or those who jumped to her bandwagon wants us to believe. Because as opposed to your argument I could produce many Mosques that have adequate, spacious and good facilities for our sisters in Islam, no matter how you try to distort it using the article of New York times as your springboard.

The face value of this thread would have been of high calibre and be more comprehensible and accepted as an issue that needs to be addressed,but what undermines it is the fact that an article in New York times and an author by the name of GOODSTEIN has been used as a tool to put the message forward.Are we to understand that we need the awareness of the very forces impelled in defaming Islam as a whole.

[NGONGE]

I've read the article above and although there are some points worth discussing, I really find myself agreeing with Viking's points. Yes, women don't get space in Mosques. Yes, Mosques seem to be mainly designed to cater for men. However, and lets be honest with each other here without waving that tiresome feminist flag, women don't usually go to mosques in big numbers. They only do so on the big occasions such as Eid prayers. It's neither logical nor economically viable to build huge female quarters when these females are only going to use it on the odd occasion. Utopian ideas are great but people have to be practical and make decisions accordingly.

 

The way the article paints the picture of these mosques, they make it sound as if those women want to turn that mosque into some sort of church where men and women mingle freely! The whole thing is absurd.

 

I'm sure most major mosques can do many things to cater for our Muslim womenfolk. They can dedicate special areas and hours for women to come and use the facilities. They can set up the praying area in such a way whereby if there were many women attending a particular prayer the space dedicated to them can be increased. These issues and grievances should be addressed to the different management's of the various mosques and not with the silly NY Times (regardless of how much these women feel they've been discriminated against).

 

In all honesty, this issue is a non-starter. The whinging and wringing of hands does nothing other than increasing the division amongst Muslims. Sisters and brothers should take up these gripes with those in charge.

 

As for the "progressive/Modernasit/Reformist NuMuslims" all they seem to want to do is dilute the religion so much until it becomes an image of modern christianity. I find all these mutterings annoying and very confusing these days. What does being a Muslim entail? Are you backward and extremist women abusers or forward looking, moderate and modern religion reformers? Are we Ahal El Sunna Wal Jamaca or Akhwan El Muslemeen? Maybe We're Wahaabis? No, no, we're Shias? Hezb Et Tahrir or Al Mohajruun? The list is endless and the pointless drivel goes on.......

 

 

Erm, ignore all of the above. The constant Islamphobia in the western media made me too paranoid. :mad:

[Viking]

Devil's Advocate,

 

Now that that's cleared up, in your post, you are pretty much downplaying a woman's right to go to the mosque or rather that it is a man's mosque and women are just welcome to come. That is a sad mistake brother, as the mosque is the house of God, where everyone is equal in his eyes.

WoW, it's amazing how someone can be misunderstood. Where did I say (or even imply) "it is a man's mosque and women are just welcome"? As NGONGE said, women don't frequent mosques that much. The reason for taht I have listed above, they are NOT obliged. Now, if the sisters are so strong in faith that they attend the mosque in as large numbers as men without even being compelled to, then, Alhamdulillah!

 

 

How did you see the women's side of the mosque? Did you go when it was populated, or when no one was there.

Would it matter?

 

As for sources, I found nothing wrong with the article, but I can see why muslim men and some women would be pissed to see a non-muslim speaking on something that so few muslims can bring up.

Muslims know who has their best interest at heart and Zionists aren't the first that spring into one's mind. It would be like saying that Americans' had Iraqis' best interest at heart when they invaded their country.

 

 

Even though a woman is experiencing menstruation, she can go to the mosque and listen to the lecture.

Unless you are planning to totally disobey Allah SWT and the teachings of Our Noble Propet PBUH, women are NOT allowed to enter the mosque, recite Qur'an or pray while the yare menstruating. Our Noble Prophet PBUH said...

 

"I do not make the mosque permissible for menstruating women and those in a state of ritual impurity."

 

Allah SWT says in the Holy Qur'an...

 

"… Approach not As-Salaah (the prayer)… when you are in a state of Janaabah (i.e., when you are in a state of sexual impurity and have not yet taken a bath) except when travelling on the road (without enough water, or when passing through a mosque)…" [al-Nisa’ 4:43]

 

 

And viking over there is using our ability to bleed every month to justify lack space and general comfortability one should feel at the mosque.

The main reason why women's section wasn't in proper condition in many mosques was because they were not obliged to attend. Your ability to bleed every month means that the numbers aren't always as high on the women's side.

[Blessed]

Salaams,

 

As far as this particulare article is concerned. I must agree with Viking and the brothers. The writer seems eager present Islam as anti-female religion. Although, I agree with some of her points. Her contempt for Islam is so transparent in her choice of words. “the door to their room flew open and husbands arrived to take their wives home" and "We were locked up like sheep and cows." Sensationalism at it's best..!! What the hell does she take us for?

 

 

However, brothers. Treating sisters as second-class citizens in the masjids is inexcusable. There are many documented hadiths that show that the Prophet (saw) allowed women to enter the masajid for knowledge and prayer. On one occasion, He (saw) even shortened the fajr prayers to free mother for her crying baby.

 

How far are we from his perfect Sunnah.. subxan Allah.

 

There are Masjids that don’t even let sisters pray and some (as my local) that have the facilities. BUT only open it on major festivals. Personally, I think it’s more a case of cultural Islam .

 

 

DA,

There are some very good Mosques in London. London Central Mosque and Al-Tawheed (Leyton) and East Londonal all have two sections for sisters. One area they can eat and sit with their kids and another that is exclusive for prayer. Alxamdulilah. I think most new Masjids are taking this on board.

 

We (me and women) Just have to be a bit more pro-active about this. The sister’s section in one of my local masjids got so unbearably over crowded that they complained to the Imaam. Eventually, the brothers gave up their area and prayed outside and in the sisters section.

 

That’s the true spirit of Islam, Mansha Allah.

[Warmoog]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

It's neither logical nor economically viable to build huge female quarters when these females are only going to use it on the odd occasion. Utopian ideas are great but people have to be practical and make decisions accordingly.

You seem to be implying that mosques shouldn't bother to provide adequate spaces for women, regardless of whether the funds are available or not, based on some (questionable) premise that women attend in fewer numbers than men. Gimme a break. Mosques are sacred places of worhship, not marked territory for one gender or other. If masjid officials have enough funds with which to provide a LARGE, comfortable environment designed not just for women or men but for the entire family, then they should do so. Mosques are supposed to be the pulse of our communities, after all. People - especially those in the West - should look to them as havens, not as sources of discomfort worth avoiding. No one should feel uncomfortable or unwelcome in a mosque, least of all as a result of some penny-squeezing effort to find the most "economically viable" solution.

 

DA,

Are mosques really sister-friendly? I think the answers vary depending on personal experience. Of the ones I’ve seen in Canada, I would say yes. If you live in a metropolitan area, especially one with a large Muslim population, there are usually many mosques to choose from if you don’t find a particular one accommodating. The reasons governing why it’s not accommodating also vary. There are mosques which genuinely lack funds. Yet, even in those ones, I’ve seen women attending lectures or giving them, taking Qur’an classes, etc. It’s nice to see people making use of what they have, however small or abundant that may be.

 

I think another part of the accommodation problem might be architecture. I don’t know about mosques in Europe, but you may have noticed the ones we have here in North America don’t have a uniform model of design and can be very atypical at times. Some are contemporary, others look traditional, some have a dome, others don’t, some are one-story structures, others have two floors, etc. Regardless of the external design, I think the two-story mosques with balconies have the most organized and spacious layout. They usually have two front entrances; the men’s entrance leads to their area in the lobby, and the women’s entrance leads to an elevator that takes them to the 2nd floor (which is for women only). The 2nd floor normally has a room for ablution, one or two other rooms for sitting or studying, and a balcony… which is where prayers are performed. Unlike mosques that have a single floor, you can actually see and hear the Imam perfectly. You also get an aerial view of the men below and their varying stages of hair loss.

[Paragon]

And I thought, it was said Islamically that its more rewarding for a woman to pray at her home than the mosque? I am not sure about this, but if this is true, Islamically, it does explain the spaces allocated to Muslim women.

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdulillah...

 

J11 your 100% right about this! and By Allah we muslim should only seek that which benefits us! As Aisha said, when The prophet of Allah(saw) was faced with two situation he would choose the easiest one! In the End sisters, Allah will weigh our deed on the scale, So Why oh why would you want to go to the Masjid to receive less rewards, shouldnt we all strife to Maximize our good deeds? And I agree with the lack of space in the Sister section at the masjid, however think of it as a blessing, Allah only wishes the best for you!

[Blessed]

^^^Pardon my ignorance, but don't we (men and women) gain extra rewards for praying with the jamaa'ah?

 

" It is reported that the wife of `Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) used to attend the congregational prayer in the Mosque at Fajr and `Ishaa' prayers. It was said to her, "Why do you leave home, you know that `Umar does not like that and he feels ashamed (that you leave home at that time)?" She said, "So what prevents him from stopping Me?" The person said, "It is the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) 'Do not prevent the she-servants of Allah from Allah's Mosques.'" (Reported by Al-Bukhari)

 

What os ypur take on the above hadith and numerous others?

 

Secondly, is prayer the only purpose for attending the masjid? I thought that Islamically the masjid is considered the central educational / support institution for the Muslim community.

 

Salaams

[LayZie G.]

Just this past week, a co-worker of mine and I were discussing this same topic.

 

My co-worker is training to be a youth pastor, and aside from him being christian, and a good invidual that I respect... he is very curious about other religions, especially islam and he has asked me, is your masjid's as friendly to both genders as it is with ours and I explained to him that its beyond my believe that in this day and time, we still come last, even infront of allah.

 

I was actually explaining to him these same type of issues, smaller space for women, less involvement when it comes to masjid and activities that are related to that, and that the men have somewhere to go and pray on fridays and not only be comfortable but to be able to have time alone and pray to allah...(they have that luxury, where as the women don't)I also told him, I wouldn't mind going to prayer atleast 3-4x a week in the masjid had it been women friendly, but that it isn't possible because in a way,t he men who turn the masjids went out of their ways to make the women uncomfortable.

 

I also told him that I wasn't all too keen on the idea of going to masjid during eids prayers only, and that I am very hopeful this way of thinking will soon change.

 

My point in all of this is that, doesn't matter who wrote it, what religion they are, but that they had the guts to come out and say what most of us have in our minds....regardless of the author's religion, she sure spoke on my behalf.

 

 

PS: When someone posts a topic and asks you to voice your opinion on the matter, don't go off topic and start critizing the author's evil intentions.

 

You somalis have a habit on just going way way off topic on most of the topics that are discusseddddddddddddddd in these forums. Time to move on about pple.

[Viking]

LayZieGirl,

Muslims don't tell Jews how to construct their synagogues, do they? The author is a Zionist working for a Zionist newspaper, writing about how women are treated unfairly in Islam.

 

C'mon, you don't have to be a genius to figure their intentions. Our Noble Prophet PBUH said; Kullu 'amalu bi niyaat... "Actions are but by intentions and every man will have but that which he intended."

 

The owner of New York Times is an enemy of Islam and his intentions are NOT good.

[-Serenity-]

Is it really that hard to discuss the issue?...regardless of who brought it up. Some of you are desperately trying to dodge the real issue and dilute it with perepheral nonesense.

.

.

.

Its not nice... :rolleyes:

[Viking]

Seven of Nine,

What is the issue? Muslims treat their women unjustly?

[x_quizit]

...Ok...let's for a second put aside the intentions of the writer....good or bad...and let's stick to the main question at hand...pretend it was asked from a muslim woman...now answer the q....are mosques sister-friendly? Mostly, id have to say no, b/c most ppl have already pointed out the reasons, such as space, etc...and i also see why b/c its mostly geared toward men, therefore accomodating them first, but sisters also deserve a place to worship that isn't treating them like second class citizens. Now...lets come up with solutions...

[NGONGE]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by NGONGE:

It's neither logical nor economically viable to build huge female quarters when these females are only going to use it on the odd occasion. Utopian ideas are great but people have to be practical and make decisions accordingly.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

You seem to be implying that mosques shouldn't bother to provide adequate spaces for women, regardless of whether the funds are available or not, based on some (questionable) premise that women attend in fewer numbers than men. Gimme a break. Mosques are sacred places of worhship, not marked territory for one gender or other. If masjid officials have enough funds with which to provide a LARGE, comfortable environment designed not just for women or men but for the entire family, then they should do so. Mosques are supposed to be the pulse of our communities, after all. People - especially those in the West - should look to them as havens, not as sources of discomfort worth avoiding. No one should feel uncomfortable or unwelcome in a mosque, least of all as a result of some penny-squeezing effort to find the most "economically viable" solution.

Here we go splitting hairs again (all in the name of feminism, eh?).

 

I know what mosques are, sister. I also know that in most of the mosques I’ve been to, there were not that many women attending regular prayers (even in those mosques that provide women quarters). I’m not really sure how you could call it “questionableâ€!

 

Yes Mosques are the pulse of our communities. Yes, they should be accessible to the whole family and not only men. However, it’s all about practicality. You’re trying to put the horse before the cart here! The more women attending mosques and regular prayers the more the necessity for extra space will become apparent. To build extra spaces that are not likely to be used is a waste of money. It’s all a case of supply and demand; if the women (and the men) who complain about the lack of spaces really believe that there is a great demand for these spaces then they should take their case up with their local mosques. Do not turn it into an open and shut case when there are many variables that explain the lack of these spaces though.

 

What are we going to ask for next? Women and men praying side by side?

 

I’m saying the above because most of those complaining about this are not really coming up with any logical arguments and are not willing to accept (or even acknowledge) some of the very valid reasons for this situation.

It’s all about the oppression of women! I think they’ve picked the wrong issue to protest about and the wrong manner of protest (NY Times).

[Salafi_Online]

What os ypur take on the above hadith and numerous others?

you dont prevent sister from going to the masjid, thats my take! but this does not negate the fact that their home is better for them!

 

no you dont get more reward praying in Jamaca at the masjid verses praying at HOme if your a sister! because during the time of the prophet(saas) when the women went to the mosque they went there to pray in Jamaca, and then the Prophet(saw)told them that it was better if they stayed home!

 

example!

 

Umm Humayd, the wife of Abu Humayd al-Saa‘idi

 

reported that she came to the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) and said: "O Messenger of Allaah, I love to pray with you." He said: "I know that you love to pray with me, but praying in your house is better for you"

(Reported by Imaam Ahmad; the men of its isnaad are thiqaat (trustworthy

 

But the fact that praying at home is preferable does not mean that that women are not permitted to go to the mosque.

 

 

i would like to issue a complain as well!

 

I dont like the fact that the male section in the masjid is so small to accommendate all the brothers. Every friday prayer there are loads brothers who are forced to pray outside? Poor guys, some of them cant even hear the Khutba! why oh why? this is injustice! why cant they not give us more spaced im out raged!

 

We have to look at both sides of the issues my sisters!