Are Mosques really sister-friendly?

[Reality Check]

Using your argument Khayr, I can show you why the women's side should be of equal size, if not more.

 

You discuss the nighttime issue of safety. Granted, that is a given, regardless of where your at. Most women in any case do not walk about alone in dark alley ways, but drive cars, take their spouses or walk in pairs or more. Also, there are many mosques that are located couple of blocks to these women's house. We have a mosque one block away. We also have a police station one block from the mosque. In this day and age, there are safety measures that women can take to protect themselves. But then again, that would take the whole community to change the mentality that a woman is always under threat and that she does not have options to protecting herself, ie. carrying mase, cellphones, taking self-defense classes, early education for men as a preventative measure against sexually assaulting women:) .

 

Also, the times that accomodation is really a problem on both sides (men and women) is during the friday prayers. You know very well that the men's section is not packed everyday, but only on that day. Friday prayers are during the daytime. Most people (men and women) want to pray with the community. So your argument about the safety does not really apply here, as the women's lives are not in danger (while in the meantime we fail to address the ones who are doing the crime against these women).

 

 

Let me tell you what happened to a sister who wants to covert to Islam 2 fridays ago. She was properly dressed for the mosque and as she was walking out, a muslim man (sporting a full beard and khamiis) stops her. So what does this man say to her? "As a muslim you should not dress like that, I should not be able to see the shape of your butt, I should not be able to see the shape of your breasts, etc etc" . This is coming from a muslim man. And this would be considered a form of verbal assualt, since the sister was dressed to the nines in typical muslim clothing. But the logical thing for people to say to her is pray at home so you won't get assaulted like that next time? (This to a person who wants to become muslim in the first place). I think not, we should be able to discuss the issue, find out where the underlying problems lie, and find a way to fix it. In the case of this brother, he should have been reported to the local Imam and put to shame infront of all the other muslims for approaching a woman like that. And what happened to men keeping their end of the surat that instructs women to wear hijab. The surat about lowering the gaze. And what about the second glance is surely from the shaitan? Why aren't these muslim brothers (and surely not ALL, because I do believe there are the good guys) that hang around the entrances of the mosques not practicing the lowering of the gaze, and why isnt it not given as much importance as the Hijab is, even though they originate from the same ayaat?

 

 

But I digress!

 

 

In any case, I don't think the issue of safety is of utmost importances in this era.

 

 

ETA: I took your example of "what being a muslim is". But stop dodging questions, cuz people notice

[Khayr]

Its nice to see that you can actually write for more than 2 lines and those 2+lines are not a QUESTION?

 

Anyhow, Safety is and will ALWAYS be an ISSUE!

Cars or not!

 

The example of your friend is a simple proof b/c as a result of her going by herself, she has come to a negative conclusion about muslims/Islam.

 

 

By the way,you evaded a simple question that you yourself brought to light

Do you pray then?

If not, then why don't you pray?

 

Simple answer might negate any 'possible accusations' against you.

I feel like underdog here, but as a result of boredom at work, I'm responding to these posts.

[Reality Check]

Sure I pray.

 

 

Am I free to be a muslim now?

[Jumatatu]

Originally posted by Salafi_Online:

^^^^

Kufr comes in many forms my dear!

 

anyone who rejects a Hadith that is authentic that does not support the Quran, like stoning and others, is a kafir wheter he says the Shahadatain 1000000000 times or more, it constitutes the rejection of Allah's messenger!

The irony in here is when a mere human associates himself with powers only related to Allah SWT, that is when one says to another believer you are 'kufaar''.

As for rejecting a hadith that does not support the Quran...would I be labeled as kuffar if I reject this hadeeth:

"Narrated Qatadah: Anas Bin Malik (RA) said, "The Prophet (s) used to visit all his wives in a round, during a day and night and they were eleven in number. I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet (s) the strength for it?" Anas replied, we used to say that The Prophet (s) was given the strength of 30 (men)"

.

 

On a second note Salafi your signature go as this : Have U seen him who has taken as his GOD his own desires? Would U then be a disposer of his affairs or a watcher over him? Or do U tink tat most of tem hear or understand? They are only like cattle nay they are even further astray from the Path 25:43...hence it is your interpretation of Sura Al-Furqan verse 25....However having re-read the English interpretation of that verse it goes like this Or deemest thou that most of them hear or understand? They are but as the cattle, nay, but they are farther astray!

Mis-interpretation of the Holly Quran and trying to be the judge and jury in matters concerning it is best described as being astray.

[Warrior of Light]

In the case of this brother, he should have been reported to the local Imam and put to shame infront of all the other muslims for approaching a woman like that. And what happened to men keeping their end of the surat that instructs women to wear hijab. The surat about lowering the gaze. And what about the second glance is surely from the shaitan?

PRECISELY==> You have hit the right button DA

[raula]

this thread truely astounds me. its really amazing that we would be arguing this much for some freakin' author/major magazine/newspaper that defames and its innest intention is to wipe out ISLAM from the face of the earth-SUBXANALLAH!

 

bottom line: your intention of going to the mosque should be solely for the worship and seeking of repentence from Allah s.w., not to EXPECT the best accomodations a hotel could provide. REFORM wat? C'mon its like NGONGE said..its no suprise that some mosques are turning out to be dancehalls for some folks (let alone transformed into a church scene). Subxallah! ma gurigii illahi baan usodacnee! Ina lilaahi wa ina illahi rajiicun!

 

Iam deeply troubled by some of the arguments in this thread! May Allah (s.w.) guide us all to the right path, Illahayow(s.w.) no naxariso (Amiin).

[Salafi_Online]

hence it is your interpretation of Sura Al-Furqan verse 25....However having re-read the English interpretation of that verse it goes like this

Jumatatu, I took the translation from

Quran English Stranslations:Includes a summarized version of At-Tabari, Al-Qurtubi and Ibn Kathir with comments from Sahih Al-Bukhari. by Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din, Former Professor of islami faith and teaching at the Islamic university of madinah

 

Al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan, former Director, University Hospital University of Madinah Saudi Arabia

 

Muhsin Khan is the stranslator of Sahih Muslim and BUkhari, he is renown professor and expert in the English and Arabic language, considered the best translator

 

So inshallah you will avert those allegation from ME!

 

As for rejecting a hadith that does not support the Quran...would I be labeled as kuffar if I reject this hadeeth:

Abu Hurairah said that Allaah's Messenger said, " All of my Ummah will enter Paradise except those who refuse." It was said, "Who will refuse?" He replied. "Whoever obeys me enters Paradise and whoever disobeys me has refused ." Reported by al-Bukhaaree (Eng. trans. 9/284/n0.384).

 

 

" whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)[] , and fear Allâh. Verily, Allâh is Severe in punishment."59:7

 

Jumututu,

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you know the Religion inside and out, IN that case everything you execute must be reinforced by the Quran! One needs to wonder Why Muslims pay 2.5% of you income for Zakat, when its not support by the Ayat, Why pray 4 Ra’ah in Duhr or 3 in maghrib when its not supported by Quran, In Ramadan you would even know what break your fast, cause its not support by a Quran! Or Wait aaaaaaa minute, i know we should take some hadith and leave the rest! yeeeeeeeees that what we should do, take that which agrees with our desire and leave the rest!This not the religion Muhammad(saw) Came with Jumutata!

 

The stange things about these assertions on the subject of Hadith needs to be supported by the Quran, is that there is no dalil for such discourse! Where do you guys get this from! If you have proves please share, same me from my ingorance!

 

 

The position of Ahlul Sunnah wa Jamaca is as followed!

 

Allah protects the Quran, and the Hadith is the Explanation of the Quran, so Allah protects the sunnah so that the Quran does not Go unexplained, and The sunnah is the speech/and actions of the messenger of Allah, therefore whatever the messenger of Allah(saw) gives you take it, and whatever he forbids you stay away, However if someone rejects the sunnah because it does comply with their wishes, then he has rejected the messenger(saw) and when you reject the Messenger, you have negated the second part of the Sahahada, which is “Muhammad(saw) is the messenger of allah†and when that is gone, your islam is Gone!

[LuCkY]

AssaLaamu ALaikum ALL,

 

I neva in my LIfe... :eek: ! Scratch that Thought!

 

Keep in mind that I aint read ALL 111 postings BUT I did read some and skimmed the others.

 

I go to several Masjids and aLthough Im not as active as I used to be, I say YES and NO to your question DeviL's Advocate.

 

There are THREE BIG Masjids in my area and severaL SmaLL ones,so I SOMETIMES pick whicheva is cLose to me at that time and other times I go to my favorite which IS sister friendLY-you aLSo have to keep in mind that the ATTENDANCE is a big factor in determining that on some occassions.

 

:eek: :rolleyes: :mad: @ SOME of YALL...very disturbing the way you are behavin'...SHAME SHAME SHAME!

[sheherazade]

There are some very serious accusations flying about, both outright and underhand.

 

Will everyone concerned reflect, please? There is so much unpleasantness, ego and demonising running through these posts. Can we de-personalise the discussion for starters? And drop the witty judgemental put-downs. It's not funny. And it's not getting any of us closer to the straight path.

 

I'll return to the topic as I find it is a necessary discussion and quite frankly will not be dissuaded by those that patronise, play the feminist card or dismiss the topic altogether.

 

Something that I would like to address is this: women distracting men at the mosque...

This is a silly notion perpetuated by men. It seeks to put the responsibilty of a man's roving eye on the woman. When I'm in the mosque, I really couldn't care less about the bloke in the corner. I'd like to know, if men are claiming to be incapable of self-control? Is the sight of a sister even at the mosque such an impedement to their spirituality? And if it is, it must be something in the 21st century water they drink for the men of the Prophet's(saw) time never came to him complaining of this.

 

Time and again, modernisation is brought up as a way to explain away a woman's calls for better social conditions. If the men are ill-informed as to the difficulties facing their sisters world-wide, I say wake up. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. U're dealing with MUSLIM women here. No one's demanding to burn bras. We're simply asking why we're turned away from mosques.

 

This place is what it is : a discussion forum. To those suggesting the women here do something, I say, we are. We're highlighting a problem and there is a great deal of good in that in itself.

 

Thank you DA for bringing this up.

[NGONGE]

^^^Sister nobody is turning you away from Mosques. It might seem like it, but as I explained and as many others already did, there might be 101 reasons why there aren’t enough spaces for women in Mosques, one of them might be to do with men being chauvinistic and sexist. But, how many of those men running all those mosques all over the world would fit into that description?

 

From reading the exchanges on this thread and seeing how emotional people get when discussing anything to do with Islam, I sadly have to admit that whenever I read the word “Islam†in any of the threads in this site I start feeling anxious and have no desire in reading them at all. I’m not sure how many others share this nauseous feeling with me. Should I be feeling this way?

 

This had the potential of being a good topic, whether we spoke about Women in Mosques or we spoke about Islamophobia in the NY Times. However, from the onset of this thread the language was one of confrontation, of men versus women. That wasn’t too bad in itself, we’re used to it. Besides, most of those exchanges were the playful tongue in cheek type. Things got worse however, the stubbornness increased and now we’re questioning the authenticity of the Ahadeeth and the Quran. We’re accusing each other of all sorts of things. WE’RE SUPPOSED TO BE ADULTS!

 

One piece of advice to all of you (on this thread and other threads) take heed of it please:

 

If you know that you’re the temperamental type, if you know that you will not be able to control yourself once provoked, please refrain from participating in religious discussions (what you know and how much you know is pointless here). Save yourself and others from potential sins.

[sheherazade]

This is how it begins: first there's the 'there isn't enough room' reason- we don't have enough space to create a separate room for the women.

 

when there shouldn't in fact be a need for a separate prayer room

 

So the women know not to go there because if they do they're told there's no room for them. 'No room' ends up meaning 'Don't come here'.

 

At some mosques, the men flat out say women are not allowed in. Honest at least but a direct violation of our Prophet's (saw)teachings. End result's the same: women are kept away from the mosques.

[NGONGE]

Lets assume you’re right. Lets say that 90% of mosques follow this policy, where do we go from here?

 

Do we inform, educate and challenge those behind this injustice? Do we force our way into a mosque and let these guys know that we’re here to stay?

 

PS

When I say “WE†I’m putting myself in your shoes and trying (but failing miserably) to see it from a woman’s point of view.

[Mutakalim]

Are Mosques sister freindly? Ah! such a intellectually ephermal thread is this. And herein, in the debate forum, I thought I would read a treatise on metaphysics or the islamic dialectics. Alas! some such subjects serve not as sustenance to the lay audience. :rolleyes:

[sheherazade]

Mutakalim, you must have some opinion on the matter. Climb down from Meta-horse and confound us. I await your contribution.

[Reality Check]

Originally posted by Mutakalim:

Are Mosques sister freindly? Ah! such a intellectually ephermal thread is this. And herein, in the debate forum, I thought I would read a treatise on metaphysics or the islamic dialectics. Alas! some such subjects serve not as sustenance to the lay audience. :rolleyes:

This wasn't meant to be a philosophical discussion. Sorry to dissapoint. But, if you look at 99% of other topics under the Camel Milk Debate, you might find what you're looking for