Are Mosques really sister-friendly?

[Salafi_Online]

Surely Allah Praises belongs to Allah....

 

Gidiid,

his message to the people in the form of the Quran and not the other way round.I know as a Muslim our guide in life is the holy Quran first and foremost. It takes precedence over every holy scripture out there

Are these the words of Allah, his messenger or the scholars that our guide in life is Quran first! i mean is there prove for this or its just your saying?

 

 

I’ve never been to Asia, and Ahlul Hadith are the likes of Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim and the other Imams who collected Hadith, they are known as Ahlul Hadith or Ashaab ul Hadith! I ascribe to the manhaj of the Companions, the likes of Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthan, Ali and those who followed them in righteouness till today!

 

Sister his message was by the way of the Quran and the speech/actions of the messenger of Allah(saw), if one reads the quran, it will become evident that the Allah ordered this Ummah to Obey Allah and to Obey the Messenger of Allah,

 

Allow me to illustrate that the Sunnah takes precedence over the Quran, and not from mere opinion but with actual prove from Quran and Sunnah! And tell me if its blasphemy!May Allah guide us Ya Rab!

 

 

Imaam az-Zuhree (the famous taabi'ee, d.124H) said," The people of knowledge who came before us(ie companions) used to say,'Salvation lies in clinging to the Sunnah. '" Reported by ad-Daarimee in his Sunan (no.96).

 

Yahyaa ibn Abee Katheer,(the famous tabi’ee (d.129H) said, “ The Sunnah is decisive over the Qur’an, but the Qur’an is not decisive over the Sunnah.†Reported by ad-Daarimee in as-Sunan (1/153).

 

They are from the students of the companions, they are among those groups of people the messenger of Allah(saw) said they are from the best people of this ummah in understanding this religion!

 

 

Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) is reported to have said that: " Soon a tradition of mine will be related to a person lying on his couch who will say, The book of Allah is enough between you and us, whatever we find in it Haalal we accept as haalal and whatever we find it Haram we take that as haram. But By Allah whatever the messenger of Allah(saw) declares as Haram then Allah has declared it Haram .†(Ibn Maajahdeclared Saheeh by Albani, Sunanibn maajah )

 

According to another report: "What is found in The Book of Allah as 'Haram' we pronounce it 'Haram' (forbidden). Surely, I am given The Qur'ân and its explanations of it’' Yet, according to another report: "What the Messenger of Allah has forbidden, Allah has prohibited it."(tirmidhi)(taken from the article of Imam Albaniâ€the status of the Sunnahâ€

 

Imam Barbaharee student of imam Ahmed, from the Salaf, said

 

“ The Qur’an needs the Sunnah more than the Sunnah needs the Qur’an, and Know that Islam is the Sunnah, and the Sunnah is Islaam[1] and one of them cannot be established without the other .†SharX-Sunnah Imam Barbahaaree

 

The Qur'ân says: ( Whoever obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah. Allah says, No, by your Lord they do not believe until they submit to your adjunction in all disputes between them, then they do not find themselves oppressed with your decisions and they completely submit)( 4:65). Again, Allah says: (When a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger, it does not behave a believer, man or woman, to have choice in their matter. One who disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path) (33:36). Furthermore, Allah says: (What the Messenger teaches you, take it, and what he forbids you, avoid doing it) (59 When a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger, it does not behave a believer, man or woman, to have choice in their matter. One who disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path) :7).

 

And Allah said in surah AlImran,†If you truly love Allah, then follow me(Muhammad) and Allah will love you, and forgive you your sinsâ€

 

In connection with this verse, I am marvelled by what is corroborated by Ibn Masoud(RA) that is, A woman came to him and told him: "You who says: May Allah's curse be on Al-Namisat [a woman who plucks hers or others eye-brows - to be a thin line - to seek beauty. Such an act is forbidden. It is a mean to change the form of Allah's creation] and Al-Motanamisat [a woman who asks others to do it for her] and those who tattoo." He said: "Yes." She said, "I read the Book of Allah (Al-Qur'ân) from its beginning to its end, I did not find what you have said." He told her: "If you have read it, you would have found it. Have you read ayah that says†what the Messenger teaches you, take it, and what he forbids you, avoid doing it." She said: "Certainly". He said: "I have heard the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) says: "May Allah's curse be on Al-Namisat."

(Bukhaaree & Muslim)

 

I can quote a Thousand Ayats that Allah commondments the Believers to Obey Allah in whatever he gives! the key word "Whatever he gives you"

 

"Whosoever obeys the Messenger, has indeed obeyed Allaah" (Surah An-Nisa 4:80),

 

 

Anyone who has memorized the Quran would know that stoning of the fornicators is not in the Quran alKarim! however its is shariyah!

 

 

‘Ubaadah ibn as-Saamit reported that the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) said, “Receive from me, receive from me: Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried man commits fornication with an unmarried woman, then one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. As for a married man committing adultery with a married woman, then they shall be lashed one hundred times and stoned to death.†Reported by Muslim (Eng. trans. 3/911/no.4191).

 

 

OG_Girl with all do respect I don’t ascribe to the Shia school of thought , who believe Abu Bakr Stole the Khalifah from Ali! To describe Abu Bakr as a thief is Fisq! your words have no weight! Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim do not have Weak Hadith or fabricated ones, this is a consensus by the Scholars of Hadith from Ahlul Sunnah WalJamCa not distored Ahlul Bayth!

 

DA

i will leave you with this inshallah,

 

"And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination."(4:115)

[ferocious]

this war will never end

[Tuujiye]

by OG-girl

We all know ONLY Quraan is protected from Allah NOT Hadeeths , there is a lot of fabricated hadeths in sahih Al Bukhari and Muslim and others as well.

 

Sis do you realy go to shari'a islamic school?

And if you are sis what do they teach you?

 

 

wareer badanaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Che -Guevara]

Devil's Ad....If you posted this article to bring attention to the situation in your local mosques, and also inspire other sistas, and brothers to re-examine the situation for women in the mosques elsewhere, then please be proactive, and actually do something. Organize women in your town,and form committees that would present your greivences to the mosque trustee. Iam sure most of mosque leaders are reasonable, and would listen to your complaints. Also listen what the mosque leaders have to say as they too have their own greivances. They might have financial constraints, or fears (real or imagined)about Muslims possibly deviating from Islam. Do yourn best to alleviate their fears,and raise funds if they are shortage of funds. Anyway, only through managed organization, education, and genuine discussion one bring about change.

[Reality Check]

Ahlu-Hadith,

 

There is nothing wrong with following the Prophet's way as he is the messenger of God. However, you must realize that when the hadith was being compiled 70% of it was tossed out due to fabrication. Also, it was put together about 200 years after the Prophet's (pbuh) death. So there is an issue of fallibility in Hadith. Even learned scholars can tell you that. The only unchanged book is in the Koran. I will disclaim this as my views and views of many others. While there is knowledge in the Hadith, I feel that it should compliment the Koran.

 

All I have asked you was that you give me an ayaat that says that women get less ajar when praying in the mosque, and you still haven't done that.

 

Feebaro, Obviously you don't even know your basics.

[Salafi_Online]

DA inshallah may Allah open the door of knowledge to you and I!

 

 

Allah said "it is we who have send the Dikr( reminder(Quran) and it is we who shall protect it"Surah 15:9

 

Allah said " We have not send you except that you Explain to manking what has been send down" 16:44

 

It’s ludicrous to believe Allah protects the Quran and forsakes the Explanations of the Quran the speech/actions of his messenger(saw)! Allah is the all seeying the all Hearing, the ever Living He Proctects the Hadith from all types of corruption!

 

 

Da its not an ayah, sis, its a Sahih(authentic) Hadith that the messenger of Allah(saw) said! There is not muslim in this planet who said this hadith is fabricated or weak!

 

The only unchanged book is in the Koran

are Sahih Bukhari & sahih Muslim Changed?

 

the Isnad DA the Isnad, check up on it! its the weapon of the believers, Read the biography of Imam Bukhari and ABu Hurayrah, you'd think those men and their likes had a better memory then a computer chip!

[Reality Check]

Salafi Online,

 

I don't believe that its ludicrious that Allah protects the Koran.

 

 

And Memory is proven to be corruptible, even in the best of people.

 

 

There is a difference in having faith in people like Abu Huraira and Bukhari than saying they were superhumans. Otherwise, why do all scholars (including Bukhari, hanbali, maliki, etc) would not have disclaimers in their books.

[Salafi_Online]

Surely All Praises Belongs to Allah

 

DA

 

Two simple Questions if u will!

 

Allah the majestic says:

 

"We have sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Qur'ân), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought."16:44

 

Clearly the Quran is not sufficient on its own, it needs an explanation; , Keep this in Mind DA, the Quran is not sufficient on its Own! Since the Quran is Protected, then what about the Explanations?

 

Two simple Questions

 

(1) are the explanations of the Qu’ran protected

(2) If so, are they all protected or just some of it?

 

(1) (Yes or no) response will do for the first question

 

(2)) (Some,all or none) response will do for the second

 

Jazakallahu Khair!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nefertiti]

Nefertiti,

 

Just because there is a war on Islam does not mean we can't talk about the problems in our community.

DA, I am actually not opposed to your argument and I do agree that we should always discuss our Islamic domestic issues. How else can we collectively resolve them if we don't have a healthy debate about it?!. However what I was criticising was the source of your info. (The Murdock Press)and the personal attacks and derogatory remarks expressed by certain nomads.

 

 

My sister did not go to the local mosque this friday because that's how uncomfortable she was with the place. I think that is sad personally.

I think that is terribly tragic too . I am currently experiencing the same difficulty in finding a mosque where I can quitly pray and reflect on life. This forces me to travel miles when I have a day off. (There is a mosque near my back yard but there are no facilities for women)

[Rahima]

Sahiih Bukhari and Muslim do not contain any daciif hadith, all are authentic hence the title sahiih. With the other hadith collections such as tirmidhi, abu da'uud etc there are sahiih as well as daciif hadiths, but no such thing with Bukhari and Muslim. Folks, for a hadith to be classified as sahiih we must remember that there were extremely sringent methods utilised and it was not as simple as some make it seem.

 

Anyone who believes otherwise is not with the mainstream views of ahlus-sunnah wal jamaaca, and as they say each to their own.

 

Sis do you realy go to shari'a islamic school?

And if you are sis what do they teach you?

Feebaro, Og-Girl as she has replied in another thread ascribes to the shia sect which would explain her rejection of the authenticity of Bukhari and Muslim. Shias have their own hadith books different to ours.

 

 

All I have asked you was that you give me an ayaat that says that women get less ajar when praying in the mosque, and you still haven't done that.

DA could you please quote for me an ayah in the quran which explains the way in which we as Muslims pray. As in an ayah which tells us that fajar is two rakac, dhuhr four and so forth. Also, if you can, quote for us all an ayah which states that we must perform the movements of rukuuc and sujuud whilst in prayer.

[Reality Check]

Rahima,

 

Bukhari discarded many Hadiths due to fabrications. That's a fact. I would really love to know the "Extraneous" methods in which the Hadith became as infallible as the Koran, but that's a discussion for another time.

 

As far as me finding you ayaats about praying, that again is not the discussion at hand. A nomad was telling me that women get less ajar in the mosque, and I asked him to prove it using a surat.

 

 

But I guess people are still giving me the run around.

[Salafi_Online]

^^^ what are your responses to my two questions,

 

consider this, how did Bukhari know those Hadith that were fabricated? U stated earlier that he came 200 years after the prophet(saw)? He doesnt receive revelations from Allah does he ?

 

This is your faith DA surely you must know a tad about it! Are the explanations protected by Allah? a yes or no response wont hurt!Its an issue of Infallibility!

 

"We have sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Qur'ân), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought." 16:44

[Rahima]

DA,

 

As far as me finding you ayaats about praying, that again is not the discussion at hand. A nomad was telling me that women get less ajar in the mosque, and I asked him to prove it using a surat.

I understood your point, but in bringing up the prayer point I was trying to make a point as well as to answer your question. You can’t accept hadith when you like it and reject it when you like, it just doesn’t work like that. Sure enough, the point that sisters receive more ajar when they pray at home is not found in the Quran, however it is found in the Sunnah of Rasuallah, the hadiths. Therefore, the question should of have been where in the Quran and authentic Sunnah does it state that sisters…?

 

Bukhari discarded many Hadiths due to fabrications. That's a fact. I would really love to know the "Extraneous" methods in which the Hadith became as infallible as the Koran, but that's a discussion for another time.

The following briefly explains this; however as with anything if you truly wish to know then research it considering it is a topic that the scholars have explained in-depth and not to mention, it is for the benefit of your diin that you understand, comprehend and accept that there are hadiths with us today that have been preserved by the will of Allah.

 

 

Methods for Transmitting the Sunnah:

 

Now that we have some historical background about the Sunnah, we should devote some time to talk about how the Sunnah was transmitted to us today. In fact, the method of transmitting the Sunnah is a truly ingenious and unique method invented and used only by the Islamic Ummah. No other civilization was able to come up with similar methods to accurately transmit their claimed holy texts.

 

Muslims put a huge amount of effort in order to protect and preserve the Sunnah, and to keep it clean from any inaccuracies or fabrications. This effort was made by thousands of Hadith scholars, who spent their lives in the service of the Sunnah. Their efforts in combating fabrications and preserving the Sunnah are discussed later on.

In order to ensure the accuracy of every sentence in the Sunnah, the Hadith scholars devised a system where every hadith contains two parts. A sanad (chain or narrators) and a matn (the actual words said by the Prophet). The sanad is the chain of narrators of the hadith. When the hadith scholars came across a hadith, they required the person saying the hadith to say who he learned this hadith from, and who that person learned it from, and so on, up to the companion who heard it directly from the Prophet.

 

By requiring this sanad with every single hadith, the scholars were able to check this chain of narrators and decide on whether this hadith is authentic or not. They developed books, still available today, that describe all these narrators, their dates of birth, where they lived, their level of memorization, their character and so on. The hadith scholars, before declaring a hadith to be sahih or accurate, intensively check the sanad of the hadith.

This includes historical checks to ensure that each 2 narrators lived at the same time and in the same place. It also includes checking for the character and level of memorization of that person. This science was called ilm al-rijal or aljarh wal ta'deel, which means science of men. The scholars collected information about each narrator from people who know him or people who did some business with him etc. They collected this information in order to allow them to judge the reliability of each narrator.

 

For example, if a narrator is known to have lied once in his life, during a business transaction, marriage, to his friends etc. he is rejected and the hadith narrated by him is considered weak or fabricated. If a narrator is known to occasionally make mistakes, this is taken into account. If he missed some prayers, or was known to have deviant beliefs etc. all this was taken into account.

 

All these books are still available today. We also still have the books where the scholars ranked each narrator depending on their reliability. All this information was then used to rank the hadith as being: sahih, hasan, da'eef or mawdoo'. In order for a hadith to be deemed sahih, the chain of narrators must be continuous with no gaps, every narrator must have excellent character and excellent memorization, and the matn is checked to make sure it doesn't contradict the Qur'an or other known hadith and so on.

 

The sciences of hadith are some of the most complicated in Islam, and it honestly cannot be fully explained here. However, we hope that we were able to give an overview of how the hadith was transmitted in order to give readers strong confidence about the scholars who performed this task. If someone is interested to learn more, there are hundereds of books about aljarh wal ta'deel and mostalah al hadeeth and so on. For others, you should have some confidence and trust in the work done by the scholars and trust their word when they say a hadith is sahih or daee'f etc.

 

Classification of Hadith:

It may be useful here to mention briefly some of the classes of hadith. The hadith can be classified in two ways:

1) Classification based on number of narrators in each generation:

•Motawatir. These are hadith where a large number of people narrated the same hadith in each generation of the chain of narrators.

•Ahaad. These are hadith that are narrated by only a few people in each generation.

We know that the motawatir hadith are indeed the sayings of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). This is because of the large number of people who heard the prophet say the hadith, and then it was transmitted through many different chains of narrators and it ended up to be still exactly the same hadith.

 

The Ahaad hadith must be studied in detail, as mentioned above, in order to prove them and they are classified as follows:

2) Classification based on studying the narrators:

•Sahih and hasan. These are hadith which were judged to be truly the words of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) by the scholars who specialize in Hadith. Sahih are a higher class than hasan.

•Da'eef. These are weak hadith, which are not proven to be from the Prophet.

•Mawdoo'. These are hadith known to be fabricated.

 

Scholars of hadith, such as Bukhari and Muslim, collected sahih hadith only and put them in their books of: Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. However, they did not attempt nor claim to have collected all sahih hadith. There are many other books of hadith such as Musnad Ahmad, Mowatta' Malik and so on which contain many sahih hadith as well.

[Reality Check]

Rahima,

 

I would love to once again get into a theological debate with you, but I feel we will digress from the topic at hand.

 

All you could have said was there are no VERSES. That's it. End of debate. Whether I accept or reject the hadith is not the issue, nor do you know what I truly believe. All I was asking (and I repeat) is, FIND ME AN AYAAT. I do not wish to find out (thru cut and paste, mind you) how, where and what the hadiths are all about, as if I didn't know anything about them. You insult my intelligence when you do that.

[Reality Check]

Originally posted by Salafi_Online:

^^^ what are your responses to my two questions,

 

consider this, how did Bukhari know those Hadith that were fabricated? U stated earlier that he came 200 years after the prophet(saw)? He doesnt receive revelations from Allah does he ?

 

This is your faith DA surely you must know a tad about it! Are the explanations protected by Allah? a yes or no response wont hurt!Its an issue of Infallibility!

 

"We have sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Qur'ân), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought." 16:44

I see, so Bukhari got visions for Allah, is that what you are saying. Because I did not read this in the books. Interesting.