Islamic Existentialism

[Johnny B]

Pooja , to enlight you , we need to define God first.

 

It may sound weird or a pusyfooting from my part , but people belive in different Gods.

[N.O.R.F]

JB, come on now dont let us down.

[Khalaf]

Originally posted by J B:

Pooja , to enlight you , we need to define God first.

 

It may sound weird or a pusyfooting from my part , but people belive in different Gods.

why do u need a denfination of God?.....Pooja asked u why u (u means JB) dont believe in God.......to reject God then u most have an idea of what God is.......why do u need others defination......whats your defination was the question.

[Socod_badne]

^For him to give you a meaningful answer, he need know which God you're talking about. There are literally a litany of Gods with different attributes ascribed to them. But it's save to surmise that for this site the God alluded to is that of Islam, Allah.

 

Before he replies, make sure you to have your tinfoil hats on....

 

 

[Johnny B]

Northerner, no risk !!

 

 

" Can you possibly enlighten us as to why you dont think there is GOD? "

Khalaf, that was Pooja's request.

And unlike you , she was (or so i found her) genuinely cincere in her request.

 

You on the other hand are someone who harbours a strong belief that is entirely based on Faith, and not on empirical data or evidence whatsoever, that means you're an irrational person who'd carelessly continue having that belief in the face of every empirical data and evidence i or anybody else provides, hence, your disingenuous request to hear the proof for the nonexistence of an undefined Deity.

 

If you think you know the God Pooja is talking about, which i doubt you do,or the God you claim i reject or deny his/her existence , please do define that God , and given that Pooja acknowledges what you provide, i'd be more than happy to accept or reject that Deity's existence and provide my proofs.

 

A deeply religious person like you woulden't have a problem defining the Deity he so devotes his life to worshiping it, or would he?

 

Maybe, just maybe, that is something to ponder over.

[N.O.R.F]

JB< what was that? Was that your piece? Empirical data etc? Please clarify.

[Socod_badne]

^You're asking him to prove a negative now? Submit empirical data for something that doesn't lend itself to empiricism?

 

Both you the theist and JB the atheist got nothing but your believes to back up your claims. The sooner you accept this reality the better.

 

You two got more in common than you think.

[N.O.R.F]

^^ I'm waiting for JB to back up his so called disbelief. I didnt ask him to submit emperical data but asked if that was his methodology for ascertaining his notion of there being no god.

 

comprehension?

[Johnny B]

Northerner, some seriousity is in order.

Assuming that you're a Muslim , wouldent you agree that the assertion:

 

" There is no God but Allah "

 

is equally Atheistic towards all other possible Gods of other religions and belif systems, including my Casper( the Ghost ) ?

 

A disbeleif in some Gods is something we already share,and we both have ample reason to do so, only this time i need you to define your God so i can evaluate if he /she/it really passes the test, hence exists.

 

Only rationally justified beliefs can be and often are based upon empirical evidence , thusly fall short of absolute certainty.

 

now compare that absolute certainity to the one you claim to have when you're worshiping your God.

 

SB, not all universal negatives are impossible to prove, given that we'r rationally justified to deny anything that is incoherent.

 

If i as an Atheist find a Theist's beleif in the existence of a particular God rationally incoherent, then i'm entitled to say that particular God does not exist, and with certainty, without me being ominscient.

 

My stance is a fuction of his claim , no

[Qandalawi]

^^ My friend you r trying to use your heard to argue what exists and what not? Before we embark into that journey did I hear that u believe in what u call as a god, Casper. Or Not god exists in brain as rumours fly around... LOL

 

So, Do u believe that God exists? however different that may be to my believe, not matters..

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Tukaale:

^^ My friend you r trying to use your heard to argue what exists and what not?

Given that 'heard' means 'head', answer is yes, i do use my head to argue, what do you use?

 

Originally posted by Tukaale:

Before we embark into that journey did I hear that u believe in what u call as a god, Casper. Or Not god exists in brain as rumours fly around... LOL

Guess what kind of beeing Casper is again, you're miles away !

 

Originally posted by Tukaale:

So, Do u believe that God exists? however different that may be to my believe, not matters..

Not only did you get it all wrong, you're beeing quite dishonest right in our eyes, becouse which God exists matters alot, if it's not your God, you're in trouble.

[N.O.R.F]

JB,

 

You know my (and everyone elses in my view as a Muslim - edit) god. So please use your 'rational' and evaluate his existance. Thanks.

 

I look forward to a good read (been waiting over a week now).

[Pujah]

Originally posted by J B:

Pooja , to enlight you , we need to define God first.

Actually, we dont need to define GOD because if I understood you correctly you don't believe in ANY God. so my question was/is why you (JB) do not believe in God..now whether that 'GOD' is allah, Lakshi, or Jesus need not matter.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by J B:

SB, not all universal negatives are impossible to prove, given that we'r rationally justified to deny anything that is incoherent.

 

Granted but note that rationally justified to deny anything that is incoherent only leaves you with justified belief, nothing more. One can't verify the truth of your claim (Allah can not exist as He is incoherent) or falsify it. Absent these two necessary conditions for making truth claims (Allah doesn't exist etc), any statement of the ilk is, prima facie, mere belief.

 

 

If i as an Atheist find a Theist's beleif in the existence of a particular God rationally incoherent, then i'm entitled to say that particular God does not exist, and with certainty, without me being ominscient.

 

Here is where we violently disagree. Certain, unyielding convictions are the stuff of dogma, not reason or empiricism. I think reading Goedel's Theory of Incompleteness well aid you immensely. Goedel, in tour de force of reasoning, shows the utter impracticality of Deductive Reasoning by demonstrating that our knowledge base is always incomplete, in a flux. Deductive Reasoning relying on it's premises guaranteeing the truth of its conclusion (unlike Inductive reasoning employed by Science where the premises makes the conclusion only probable) hits hard rock. Lacking certainty in the information/knowledge we use to build our premises, our conclusions become only likely at best, unreliable at worst. Unless you have perfect knowledge you can never make absolute claims of facts. And in the off-chance you think you got a case for perfect knowledge upon which to proclaim a position of absolute truth, you still have to overcome the hurdle of Verifiability and falsifiability.

 

When all is said and done, no claim be it for or against Allah's existence can be anything beyond mere claim. Thus, the reason for my initial comment that both you the Atheist and the Theists got only contending personal beliefs. I know it's hard pill to swallow but you know, deep down, I got fair point on this one.

[N.O.R.F]

^^Stop spoiling it, i'm waiting for JB's piece.