Islamic Existentialism

[Caano Geel]

too flowery, with unessasarily long words

[Sophist]

Caano! you are scientist; Qui vir odiosus!

[Johnny B]

^ Had i my moral police dress on had i busted Sophist for his newly developed manner ,a moral shortcomming of sort, an ounce of dishonesty if u like.

"Then Furqan was revealed "

 

Even two years ago when he said "Without God morality would have no meaning", he seemd to have cincerely a good point ,but he diden't.

 

It's an otherwise well known stance of the people of Faith,a simile of , " Taking my God away you're taking my sanity away".

They'd tell you ,it is a dog eat dog world, and there woulden't be a need to be moral.

 

Ofcourse that is not true.

Our morality has to do with our Social-beeing than it has to do with a Deity whose sake we get Altruistic.

[Caano Geel]

sophist,

Qui potest capere capiat!

[edit]

btw . waryaa, how dare you!

[xiinfaniin]

Good JB, as always you fail to appreciate how Furqan contributes to the human development. Furqan provides moral certainty saaxiib. Case in point: we are living in a world full of moral quandaries but the followers of Furqan do not labor on today’s most pressing social issues arising from morality. That’s not so because of an inherent intellectual lethargy unique to these Furqan followers, rather it’s the result of clear moral teachings that leave no room for ambiguity. Homosexuality is an eternally condemned deed, for instance, and no matter how popular it gets, it will never be an acceptable practice for these followers. For them, bending moral convictions to appease majority pulses is not an option at all. Consider the value of this moral rigidity (strong) yaa JB! Furqan also establishes a sense of purpose for its adherent’s life. Who lives a pointless life anyway you might ask! It’s not a hasty response if I say that many people do exist in a life without assessable purpose. Followers of Furqan, however, live in a linear world with clear begin and end points. It puts life in a context for them; past doesn’t recede meaninglessly ever fast behind and modernity doesn’t deem old values obsolete; accountability for own actions transcends this world, and punishment or reward are the ultimate outcome to expect from the court of God! Succinctly formulated and simplistic in delivery yet consequential and far-reaching in meaning, you might observe. Such is the model of Furqan!

 

Without giving you the detail line so to speak, Furqan has gone live in many places and territories at its weakest time and there must be something that’s particularly remarkable about its wining appeal! I like when people ask me why I don’t drink alcohol or eat pork. It gives me that pleasure to show sense of adherence to a binding legal code whose enforcer is not visible to our naked eye. Perhaps people see some value in this primitive loyalty to a higher being. I don’t count you to be one of those whining beings that tend to unreasonably resent the success of this faith, and I trust your intelligence to rationally explain why intelligent and educated people opt to derive their morals from religion, and not from their social-being, as you put it. Ask Caano-Geel like questions, if you must, but attempt to reason and rationalize things before you summarily dismiss them as you did.

 

 

PS:--without religion morality would be reduced to empty pronouncements. Like Arabs did before, people would fiercely defend the honor of their guest yet bury their daughters alive. Or as evidenced in our contemporary abortion problem, people would go high-tech to end the life of an innocent fetus whose sin is to have been conceived at a wrong time! The irony is that JB like philosopher wanna-be’s would construct an argument for the defense of these barbaric acts(abortion), yet go ballistic when a Sheikh (say in Australia) uses a wrong verb to describe women’s status in Islam !

[Sophist]

Xiinfiniin: Dadka caqli usaaxiibka ah markey waxaan oo kale arkaan waxay oran jiraan "walaale wiilku subaalatu dihnihii ayuu kahadlayaa".

[Sophist]

caano! sorry saaxiib.

[xiinfaniin]

lol@subaalatu dihnihii! Sophistow malahayga JB falsafad baa haysa.

[Johnny B]

Nice to see you back Atheer Xiin-, that i for one have missed your posts is an understatement.

 

Atheer, That my stance always triggers some fireworks in you psyche is something i take happily credit for, though most of the time what i get in turn is just as stimulating, sometimes even more intellectually tickling, this one time, your post had the scent of a flaring Xiin, in the spirit of "évacuer ses soucis", rathen than the usually chocolate-coated nuggets of wisedoms as Castro would have put it.

Atheer , horta ma nabadaa?

 

Better Xiin-ow, 'Support your claims', have became a phrase that is worn out in my exchanges with you,so please this only one time do the substantiating and spare us a thought. a thought that'd be unbecoming of us , that is.

Your post vococously paws at subjects like Homosexuality and Abortion ,subjects of different magnitude and sphere that we can in no way cover here,so let me concentrate on following points.

 

1: The Furqan .

2: Your claims of what Furqan is ,and does for it's adherents.

3: morality for the religious person, morality for the areligious person.

 

Firstly, my witty remark on Sophist's introduction of the Furqan while addressing Socod_badne's question and your absolute certainity of my failure to appreciate it's contrybution are of diffrent intentions ,nevertheless, i'll go ahead and address your apologetic attitude towards Furqan and your pretentious projection of it's moral codes as Supereme.

 

I say Furqan borrows almost all it's moral teachings from the other Abrahamic religions it is not mentionably diffrent , it actually does provide just as little, incomplete and unsofisticated moral codes for its adherents, Only in an ideal Furqanic environment can you mentally and physically abuse and beat up your life-partner (wife) legally and get applauds for it ,that is to mention few, but that is not just Furqan's fault so to speak, there are other factors.

 

Morality has to do with our Social-beeing, every society including the Animal societies have to have a set of moral rules that safeguard the well beeing of that species as a group and individuals in that group as an individ, some sort of "rule of the game " if u like, the more a society or a group puts morally supportable and pragmatic fuctioning rules in place the more that society or group thrives.

 

In constrast , your unsupported projection of the people of Furqan as immune to ambiguous morality, doesen't hold water against my abouve inference , and i woulden't need to mention how thriving the people of Furqan are compared to others of diffrent moral codes.

 

As for the rigidity of a morality that gives 40 lashes to a raped girl for beeing vulnerable in the first place while giving less lashes to a pedophile is not a rigidity that i would like to judge , but i'd like you to explain for us what is an assessable purpose?

Implying anything implyable is an equal opertunity Xiin-ow, and i don't doubt your intellectual capability to cut that Swath.

 

Good Xiin, You've reiterated my to be amusement over the lot of sercularly educated that opt to choose Faith over Reason, implying that their choice per se proofs something, that it is safe to have Faith ,but we both know that it is your little strawman .

 

Furqan morality blossomed between 7th century to the Ottoman Empire, but has been on the decline ever since, all that is left of that Dynasty is a legacy of ruins attempting to evolve and regroup to popup again. an attempt that shows beeing almost impossible.

 

Good Xiin, that you have no clue of what a grilled hotdog tastes like is and can be a source of pride as much as it is and can be out of ignorance and self righteouness,and i don't mind having the previlege to always tell you what it's like having a ham for breakfast.

 

Xiinow, that people of the faith have defficulties beeing moral without a guiding God is a known shortcomming,And that as a faithful person you're of the Furqan morality is normal, but that you even as a Pagan would like to act and immitate an Arab, is beyond me , burying your daughter that is. talk about beeing so indoctrinated.

 

Atheer Xiin, You may so want to punish every girl or women who aborts , but would you like to punish a girl or women who smokes during her pregnancy to just deliver a cancer sick baby?

now, go and punish women on your way to saving born or unborn kids life.

 

Sophist , Atheer , " subaalatu dihnihii " cay maha ? if not please explain .

[Sophist]

Qashin qubka maskaxda! that is what it means!!!!!.

 

Tan kale, inaad gaal tahay hade ma aan ogeyn; marka hada kabacdii sidii nin murtid ah ayaan kuula dhaqmi.

[Socod_badne]

^Pathetic cop-out.

[Johnny B]

So he chickened out?

What could have he meant that diden't hold is of no importance anymore.

 

I'm gonna share Caano Geel's "sorry saaxiib"

[Cara.]

Xiinfaniin,

 

Moral certainty is a curious defense for religiosity, I think. People who fly passenger planes into high-rises are filled with moral certainty and faith in the Qur'an, which is the same Qur'an adhered to by other people who consider them to be barbaric heretics. George W. Bush's religious faith is not in doubt, yet he willfully destroyed a nation and caused the deaths of many, all the while giving lipservice to his unshakeable faith in a Loving God. And yet there are Christians who condemn his actions as un-Christian!

 

I think it's not that religious texts give clear-cut guidance, but that religious people tend to be filled with moral fervor, and which position they take on any question is a function of personality quirks, since anything can be defended using any religious text. So a kind well-meaning person will focus on the parts of his religious text which promote treating others well, whereas a morally bankrupt individual will find equally heinous justification for his actions.

 

I rather surround myself with people who doubt themselves and question whether they are in the right continously. It's a healthier atmosphere, and makes for more congenial conversations to boot

[Khayr]

Originally posted by Cara:

I rather surround myself with people who doubt themselves and question whether they are in the right continously. It's a healthier atmosphere, and makes for more congenial conversations to boot

Are you sure your 'circle of friends' does not largely constitute members of the asylum?

 

What your arguing for is INSANITY (doubting themselves and question whether they are in the right continously)

 

that people of the faith have defficulties beeing moral without a guiding God is a known shortcomming

 

Junior B., tell us please how you can be MORAL without a Guiding GOD.

 

Please explain to us your doctorinal Moral Relativism i.e. Morality without GOD(The Absolute)

[Paragon]

I don't see the big issue here. However uncomfortable, somethings cannot be rationally proved and thus to insist on proving them is somewhat ungainly.