Somali Husbands - Past vs. Present

[Warmoog]

I've heard it said on numerous occasions that, with regards to the relationship between husband and wife, Somali men in the old days were different from men today. Most of them were basically what I'd call domestic bullies. In other words - even when they were good to their friends, neighbours and others around them - they were generally very harsh with their wives (ex: they beat their women over the slightest provocation or were verbally abusive and demeaning).

 

These days Somali men generally seem much kinder to their wives, but that's simply my opinion. I'm not saying they're all innocent angels without flaws/sins, only that wife-beating isn't usually one of them. Just compare those from your great-grandfather and grandfather's generations to those of your father's. If you've learned anything of their lives from your relatives, you'll usually notice a big difference. Women sometimes like to point out what they think are faults inherent to all Somali men like defective genes, but if you ask me they've come a long way in a short period of time (1-2 generations or so).

 

This may not be the case with all Somalis; I'm basing my judgements on the lives of my own relatives. Though I must say, I received my info from female family members. Partly because there are more women in my family, but mainly because I couldn't walk up to my grandfather and say something like, Awooyo, aweeyo waliga ul maad kala dashey? Subxanallah.

 

Anyway, my question to you all is what do you think prompted this change? Was it education, our society's loosening grip on conservatism, modernization (several decades back, when they nation was young)...?

 

Salaamz.

[Sophist]

Salamas,

 

The above question is a suggestive one. It is one that pre-determines that the our father’s generations were less favourable as husbands than our generation. This of course is based nothing short of hearsay. There is no methodological reseach which had been carried out to support the above bold statement; thus I shan’t get into the merits of the general issue involved but indeed speak of my family and particularly the relationship between my darling mother and loving father.

 

Without no hesitation, I can assuredly tell you that my father is and will continue to be better husband that I can never dream of being. This of course is based upon not only his gracious behaviour towards my mother, but also the embacable personality of my mom. The maritial relationship is based upon two indivituals giving their inner most value to each other. Naturally, they are different human beings but they share certain things which connects them together.

 

In the case of say my family, my mother although more educated (certificates wise) than my father, she knew what her role was. This made easier my father to fulfill his role as a husband. Due to her love, humility, undersatnding and the respect for her religion my mother created an environment which my father can blossom both as husband and father to all of his children who love him deeply.

 

Now in our present Somalis in the diaspora, the vital role has seemed to change. Most of the females whom I meet are nothing like my mother and of course I am not like my father either. This of course have a potential of being rather disasterous adventure if I were to partake such a voyage which isn’t on the outset one that will go smoothly.

 

In order to be “good” husband in out era where women have no clear understanding of what their role as wives are and where men are not the real men like our fathers were; the future of the Somali family seems to be bleak. And a marriage to survive it requires servile husband to be adoptable to the WANTS of his wife--- and this seems not to happen.

 

 

To be a good Somali husband, one requires a culturedly clever wife.

 

 

Thus Spake I

[Baashi]

Yasmine,

 

I’m not sure about this. To begin with, were Somali men wife-beaters in the past? Do you, by any chance, know the statistics (percentages) of this demographical data? The info you have received from your female relatives is an indicator of sort but that alone cannot be used to extrapolate an over-generalization statement like the one you have just made. That doesn’t mean there were not any wife-beaters in Somalia back then. And BTW how do you know they have changed their ways now?

 

There are Somali men who are wife-beaters in the States (mind u!). If there are any translators (for the court and for the Social services dept.) here in SOL they will agree with my assertion. Despite the 911 services, the rule of law (BTW it empowers women), etc many women get the black eye quite often. If I have to take a guess drugs are one factor to blame on the behavior of these social deviates like “wife-beaters”.

 

It should be noted that domestic problems and dysfunctional families are not a problem limited to only Somalis. To answer your question assuming you are referring the men who believe that they have right (derived from religion) to beat their wives but don’t exercise their “distorted believe” today. I would say that perhaps they understand the consequence of doing that (a felony) in the States.

 

In general, last 20 years or so Somalis have been enlightened by Islamic lectures or Muxadaraat. Many wring practices that have been attributed to Islam has been clarified by “Culimada”. These clarifications have been disseminated through analog tapes and through the internet.

 

Just an opinion.

[Warmoog]

Baashi,

You’re saying I shouldn’t make broad or ‘bold’ statements without proof in the form of statistics. But what’s the point in using stats to determine the validity of something most of us know to be true, regardless of whether we want to admit it or not. Perhaps you also have an issue with my use of the term ‘wife-beaters’. Call it domestic violence if you wish, but I prefer not to sugar-coat. When I wrote “this may not be the case with all Somalis”, I meant just that. In other words, maybe none of person A’s ancestors can be described in those terms, while some/most of person B’s can. It’s my belief that most Somalis fit into the latter category.

 

So do I think many Somali men of past generations were wife-beaters? Yes. Were they all? No. Statistics are irrelevant here, as I've already mentioned that my judgements are based on heresay and the lives of my relatives - both past and present. I don’t need figures to prove what happened to them. I believe family stories of their experiences to be accurate because they’re recent more than anything else (i.e. they don’t go back more than 2 generations). It's heresay, it's history and - when it comes to Somalia - there's no distinction because our history is based on word of mouth.

 

As independent thinkers, we have every right to question history. One can also refute it if they choose to do so. But why do we refute it? Because we believe it to be false? Or because we can't bear to face a few harsh truths and would rather see them swept under the rug? If the latter is true, it’s also wrong. We can’t simply dismiss what we view as imperfections in the telling of our 'glorious past'. If everyone did so, they’d all have fairytales as history books.

 

Mind you, I’m not calling domestically violent Somali men of past generations ‘wife-beaters’ out of spite or bitterness… I’m saying it because it’s truth. And for the sake of my great-grandmothers and grandmothers, knowing what they experienced (both good and bad), I’m not willing to dismiss that part of history. I’m not saying we should dwell on the bad, rather I think we ought to embrace it along with the good. Let’s be honest with ourselves and learn to accept our past in all its hues.

 

By the way, I think you’re absolutely right in stating that dysfunctional families and domestic problems are not limited to Somalis. But I wouldn’t compare the problems faced by Somali families living in the U.S. to the problems of those living in Somalia (whom this topic was referring to). Obviously, when we’re discussing the lives of those living abroad, numerous factors - which often tend to upset the balance of tradition home life - have to be taken into account. And based on contradictions between the social values of the external environments alone, assimilating the domestic problems of one group with those of their counterparts in far-off lands is an unfair assessment.

 

Salaamz.

[Paragon]

"Awooyo, aweeyo waliga ul maad kala dashey"

 

Lol Yasmine....ask him. I am sure you won't get more than a whack from Bakooradda.

 

Back to the topic. You could be right to claim that 'some' of older generations of Somali husbands, were indeed to some extent of violent nature towards their wives. Wife-beating was a reality and part of life experiances in some Somali sub-cultures. I remember folk-tales of a clan that has wife-beating as part of the wedding ceremony. Marka aroosadda la soo galbinaayo, men will align themselves along the entrance of her would-be home, lash her till she cries. However, education and modernity [global cultural influences] have changed all that.

[Sophist]

Mythical stories Jamal11 don't count as evidence. I don't believe the premise that the current husbands are better husbands than our fathers.

 

It cheap to claim that our fathers use to beat our mothers as a general rule. This is disgustingly idiotic to suggest. There might have been incidents that some men had done so, but so as now. the maltreatment of some men continues.

 

I remember the first maah maah I learnt in piribaatiyadii xamar was; look before you leap; now examine the evidence before you write about a subject that can invoke profound sentiments.

 

Cheerio.

[Paragon]

"Mythical stories Jamal11 don't count as evidence." Lol..Sophist, and what do you define as 'mythical'? If you believe what I mentioned was mythical,and you think its 'mythical' then why place evidence in the same sentence?

 

Next, when does one rule and differentiate myths from reality? Doesn't this process of varification take more exermination? Or to you, is easly assumption permissable?

 

"I don't believe the premise that the current husbands are better husbands than our fathers."

 

Who do you exactly mean with 'our fathers'? Please do clarify!

 

"...It cheap to claim that our fathers use to beat our mothers as a general rule.."

 

Again here, you are making the same mistake of assuming that all Somalis have mothers and fathers of the same clan tradition.

 

"...This is disgustingly idiotic to suggest. There might have been incidents that some men had done so, but so as now. the maltreatment of some men continues..."

 

No no sxb, it is not idiotic at all. To jump to a quick assumption and conclusion may, however, merit some status of the sort you mentioned .

 

"...I remember the first maah maah I learnt in piribaatiyadii xamar was; look before you leap;..."

 

Lol I think I have heard that too Hmmm yes I did indeed.

 

"...now examine the evidence before you write about a subject that can invoke profound sentiments..."

 

Absolutely. I agree sxb. But can you do the same for me please? Atleast, will you ask me where I got my evidence from. I will be glad to provide references.

 

Thank you

[Warmoog]

Sophist,

Firstly, mythical stories may not count as evidence but in the case of Somalia folktales would. The latter is what brother Jamaal was talking about so please don't confuse the two. Secondly, all good discussions and debates are supposed to "provoke profound sentiments" and this one isn't meant to be any different. No one's claiming that "our fathers used to beat our mothers", as you put it. We're talking about of men of past generations and their harsh treatment of their wives as compared to men of today, whom I also clearly pointed out where not innocent of their own flaws/sins. Does wife-beating still occur? Yes. Is it as common as it was a few generations ago? Of course not. Let's face it, back then it was part of our culture. And, unfortunately, some men even tried to use religion to legitimize what they were doing. If you'd prefer to dismiss those parts of our history, that's your issue.

 

PS - If you want to discuss the 'maltreat of men', please save it for another topic... we've got our hands full here.

 

Salaamz.

[Baashi]

^^ @Yasmine, Bro Sophist and Jamaal-11 are the sages of SOL and they do understand each other so let them sort that one out!

 

Yasmine,

 

FYI I’m not dismissing the existence of “wife-beaters” in Somalia. The statement: “Some Somali husbands were (have been) wife-beaters in the past” is a true and valid statement.

 

I don’t have a problem with such statement whether it is bold or not. Even then the question of ‘how many’ puts the author in a tight spot unless he/she has something to back that statement up. You seem to be saying that your observation is the harsh “truth”. In the same breath you are admitting the fact that the info is a hearsay.

 

How do you reconcile with the sum experiences of the likes of me who have been around for awhile, lived in Somalia, had neighbors, schoolmates, friends AND the some of your experiences?

 

Can I construe my experience as the “harsh truth”? Why not? Alternatively, are this info and my sources just one “significant” piece of the puzzle or they are the “answer” and hence suffice to make an statement along the line: most Somali husbands were kind to their wives.

 

The point? Yes I agree the fact that there have been “some” Somali husbands who were abusive to their wives. How many and how frequent? we don’t know. And we can't rely on the conclusions derived from small sample as the one you have presented.

 

PS. Have you noticed already the four Somalis who have posted their thought on the topic have disagreed on the premise (generalization) not the existence of it.

[Sophist]

Jamaal! how dare you? I shall summon you to my court and command you elucidate why in a such audacity you have to pretend to be vulgar infront of I

 

Yasmin iyo Jamal, i am off to bed, i am so tired I shall reply to you guys beri insha Allah.

[rudy-Diiriye]

r we talking about planet earth or some where else!

 

yasmina! sista a gotta a major surprising heading your way!!

 

ko laha abo yaashi hore were wife beaters!! babe gal they were rag sharaf leh! u cant compare those ole good boyz to the todays tug wannabee! he will sucker punch u like no tomorrow!! word to your...TUG!!

 

INCLUDING ME TW-GENERATION CANT HOLD A CANDLE TO OUR DADDY/G-FATHER! i wish, i could be in their league, they were smooth operators!! for real!! they took care of their family and treated everone equally and in return, everyone repected them!!! yo them days, were golden days!! i missed 'em a whole lot!!

[Warmoog]

Baashi,

You have a very good point. What’s considered ‘truth’ is often relative to individual experiences and one’s version of truth can sometimes be contested from another perspective... especially when there's little or no hard proof. I’ve also noticed that I tend to generalize in my posts. You’re usually among the first to call me on it and I appreciate your constructive criticisms. I’ll try to avoid doing so in the future.

 

rudy,

Lol! Forget the tuugs… naftada uu cabso walaal, cause if I were you I’d watch out for those short-tempered dacas-wielding ladies... but that’s another topic.

 

So much for the discussion…

 

Salaamz.

[ijabo]

Yasmine.....if i have this right (and plz do correct if i dont)....your suggesting that Somali men are better today than they were in the past in terms of their treatment towards their women......or u talking about generally cos that would be a different case alltogether im sure.

 

 

I don't really accept that claim fully. you said that you will in the future try to not generalise....i think thats a wise move. The issue is so wide, without any sociological/demographic research on the matter its really hard to say.

 

But you do make an interesting claim.....i wonder if Somali WOMEN were better 50 or 60 years ago than they are now?

 

Sophist....just cos women these days are more educated doesn't necessarily make them less motherly/gentle and subservient to their husbands as they should always be. Amusing to hear it from you though!

 

Great topic Yasmine!!!

[BEAU_MEC]

Nice topic. As many of you have rightly stated domestic violence is harsh reality of both the past and the present. The act it self crosses cultural, economic and religous barriers and the victims although usually female can be male (probably a diff topic)...Back to the original point, I think its a difficult topic to discuss mainly due the fact that our society ( back home) has disintergrated as a result of war. Which ever distinct roles a husband and wife had are no longer at play, in some cases roles have been reversed. So any comparison made btw husbands of today and those of yesterday should ideally take this into consideration. Husbands of yesterday did not face the the same social/poltical/economical strifes present in todays Som. Nevertheless, times have always been difficult for our nomadic society...

 

PS: anyone else temping? don't you love the fact that you're being paid to surf the net and read fourms.....

[QUANTUM LEAP]

Looking at todays Domestic violence across the world, you would think Somali husbands are probably the best compared to their counterparts in many other cultures including the Western one where most victims dont even survive the assaults on them. Somali husbands could have been harsh with their wives and all but then again Im sure the wives too gave as much as they got in some way or other. Infact the old men mostly didnt kick the daylights out of our fore mothers but could have abused them emotionally. If one compares that era with whats happening today around us, you would think our fore fathers where saints to say the least compared to the many murders taking place in the west on adaily basis.

 

 

 

Oh by the way the above chart can work both ways. Both Male and female commit violence and abuse of some sort or other.