SOL- I'm disappointed....

[NinBrown]

Salama calaykum

 

This is very good topic, cos a lot of ppl have misconceptions about being TRADITIONAL or WESTERNISED.

 

Fisrt of all we should ALWAYS take our views from the ISLAMIC views regardless of where you live. As some of the brothers already eluded to ISLAMIC CULTURE and WESTERN CULTURE are not compatible. Cos our PROPHET SAW said ‘man shabaha qowman fahuwa minhum….who ever tries to copy other people(non-muslims) he is verily one of them.’

 

MUSLIMS used to educate themselves way before these WESTERNS, and MUSLIM WOMEN were valued and respected way before these westerns claim to be.

 

And on the Somali language, imagine you’re a 19 years old boy/girl and you don’t know your mothers tongue, how to read it or write….that CEEB and JAHILNIMO, AND I never been to SOMALIA is no excuse.

[lol]

Lucky: It is human to assume unusual behaviors as alien by most. Somalis tend to label such changes as untraditional or western. I don't think we ( the product of the western influence) have done anything wrong to be called as Untraditional. When kids are brought to a place, it is only natural for them to adapt some of the ideological thinking of that place. It is not wrong to adapt western thinking as long as it is within the borders of Islam. Many habits of the west tend to be part of our Islamic teachings only Somalis missed out on it..

 

This proposterious allegations that seem to flood our elders' minds have become a prominent barriers in the efforts to perfection.

Take the good stuff from Somali culture and leave the rest... and do the same to the gaal culture... That is my take on the situation..

[Blessed]

What is wrong with being Traditional- Somali?

There is cool English proverb? If you went to China would you stop speaking English? Every English person would instincively say no! So you know what they did... they made the rest of the world adapt to their ways - I think thats cute. But I ask all those ka faaniya being traditional-what's with the self-hate? Why are we so fast in giving up our identity - for that of another?

 

I think the problem with many younger generation Somalis is that they assume Somali tradition is responsible for ills that exist in our society- It is not! Our culture is heavily influced by Islam and Islam does not restrict women in any way - the west may view it like that but it does not- Sister our tradtion allows women like Edna Aaden and Casha Abdulleh serve very high position in politics - not forget that many women who contribute greatly to the development of our country behind the scenes! I really don't understand where ppl got the idea that a Somali can't be educated / work from... it's news to me!

 

Somalis have always valued education whether it's for men and women....however, some of the brothers in this forum seem to suffering from streaks of bigotary that makes them impose their own desires (having a personal khadaamad) by coating it under the guise of dhaqan iyo deen... if you really want to know about Somali dhaqan than i suggest we go back to our fathers, adeeros and our history...Somali women have always been the backbone of society and will remain as such for as long us we hold on to our dhaqan -and not adopt the ways of arabs, indians or the British!

 

 

There is a difference between - Culture / Dhaqan or Hido / Tradition and Behaviours / Caadooyin. Whilst our Culture and Tradition are beautiful - we do have some nasty caadooyin that we should get rid off.

[Baashi]

Sis Opinionated wrote,

Again, that was not necessary and stop being so accusatory! were you not taught the art of arguing a point without character assasinating? But I guess that's the SOL way

I accuse no one in that post nor did I character assassinate you or anyone else. It was an opinion and I could be wrong. Nevertheless, that is how I see things at this point of time. If you took it personnel, I assure u it was not. We are not going at it again, are we? I hope not...my sincere apology if that post offended u or anyone else for that matter. This discussion is good one...for the sake of SOL nomads lets not spoil it plz.

 

Dawaco, that was really good discussion thanks for initiating...

[Medley of extemporanea]

...so what's the point?

[dawoco]

Well Haniif,,,The point, as you so eloquently put it, is that any culture is what it's people make of it.

 

I believe that because human beings are so imperfect, many traditions have some kind of a flaw.

 

It all depends on how the people to whom the tradition belongs adapt it to modern day society. So instead of rejecting a tradition because some costumes raise hackles in many, if it is taken on and improved to fit the new generation, a tradition takes on a new meaning and reflects on those who have made it their own in a positive way.

Or at least, that is my take on the whole phenomena that is tradition....

[Paragon]

"...So instead of rejecting a tradition because some costumes raise hackles in many, if it is taken on and improved to fit the new generation, a tradition takes on a new meaning and reflects on those who have made it their own in a positive way..."

 

Allaa Ya Cizak! Dawaco, I couldn't have put it better. Great topic by the way .

[OG Moti]

Dawaco shall i tell the people about this topic.....? loooooool or tell them what you really feel about Somali women in the west? looool maybe not now! ..... :mad: peace

[Sirrus]

Salamu aleykum

 

What do you expect sis Dawaco, when people transverse from a pre-industrial way of living and thinking, i.e. pastoral economy, familial solidarity and collective functioning straight into post industrial mode of living i.e. capitalistic, individualistic and libertine, over night it is only logical confusion will pursue. People are perpetually amending, a good indication is back home, where you find people in near incomprehensible accents, and traditions, something we acquired just over 2 to3 hundred years, of migration and grazing other cultures. Would it be surprising then to find people in the West assuming the cultures of their host nations? I personally perceive the sisters to be the standard bearers of our traditions, perhaps they are responding to unapparent pressure from us males, perhaps is out of sheer choice, non the less it takes a lot of courage to resist drowning in this Western culture. Contrary to your perception the brother’s choice has not changed, we have always sough traditions for our homes, but interesting partner for ourselves, it is part of respectively being Somali and human simultaneously. We want homes representative of our upbringing, complete with decency, respect, solidarity and religion, while having partners that are endowed with understanding of the contemporary environment so as to insure both the survivorship of our partnership and offspring. Now what part of that do you find contradictive? Lastly I do agree with you, that we are somewhere between start and finish, knowing how metal the hardest matter cracks with rapid change of temperature, hope we do not follow suit and fragment into history. Wasalau

 

Alaykum wa raxhmatulaa

[ijabo]

I think its unfair to coin the gals as ' being more demanding'. I kinda resent that comment.

 

Dawacaw b careful of making such sweeping generalisations about us gals. Not all of us who have been living in the west are like that. For some of us, like ma self the more we live in the west , the more proud and thankful we are of being muslim and somali.

 

I think u should have categorized ur comments on the gals a little better.

 

the connnection between the deterioation of our culture with women is becoming a popluar sterotyope, but its quite unrealistic. and its getting really boring. Does anybody have a new theory that does not involve women?

 

Why? its too simplistic and naive of an explanation which does not present itself as a meaningful observation of the many complexities of our new generation.

 

Why gender the problems and solutions?

 

too few talk about the positive aspects of whats going on today, and too many blame it on the women. Alas, its the curse of the Origional Sin.lol lol

 

Somebody come up with a new theory, cos this one is getting too old.

[dawoco]

It would seem that i can't point it out often enough.

This topic is not one based on gender issues and no retaliation is necessary.

 

Ijabo, sis i am sorry you perceive it as such. It is about our traditions. How we, those who are abroad, are adapting our culture to the new invironment.

 

It is not about religion, because i think that is rather a given fact and needs no mentioning, it is quite obvious that it plays the lead role in this play that is life.

How ever, if you have a topic more worthy of discussing, please do share it with us uninformed nomads, i'm sure it will make an intresting read sister.

 

I think it is strange that some sisters are ready to jump the gun when ever anything remotely gender related is mentioned. It is like many wish to counter attack before they themselves are attacked.

That is all well when faced with bad intentions. But in a general discussion isn't it far better to optain an iota of objectivity?

 

 

Sirrus, how can one have understanding for one culture while dabling in the other? It would seem obvious i suppose, knowing the rules but not playing the game.

But the problem is that it raises many confusion as to what is right and what isn't.

Let us say that religion is still on the top list of priorities. Can one do as the romans do when in Rome while perserving one's self?

 

So assuming that you and your better half have a great understanding for the new culture you have found yourself with. And that both of you still harbor great affection for your own culture, since it is the way you were raised, the way your partner was raised. This understanding of the new culture combined with your own cultural identity ensures that you and your other half raise your own children to succeed in the "new world" as it were.

 

This is were it gets tricky. While you can teach your off springs the religion, which they can practise anywhere. You can't teach them the traditions of the old land, as they lack the means to put those traditions to good use.

 

They go to school in the new invironment, they make friends that are off the new invironment and they interact with others in the new invironment using norms and values that are considered essential in that new invironment.

 

This not only creates a new generation that has no grasp of it's parents' upbringing, it creates a gap between the well meaning parents' that understand one culture and practise another and their offsprings that have only seen one major culture in practise.

 

Of course there are many that actually develop a curiosity for their back ground and learn the old ways through this.

But some are lost because of circumstances that made profiding crusial guidance impossible.

 

I mean, can a parent practise one tradition while bringing up a child in another tradition? Can that child take his parent's tradition on face value while he only sees the other tradition in true form?

[Sophist]

Sirrus, how are you old boy?

 

With elation I welcome you to this forum which I am sure you will contribute your englitening ideas.

 

Ku soo dhowoow, caano iyo gambar.

 

 

Respectively,

 

Sophist

[LANDER]

Originally posted by dawaco:

Unless there is some kind of argument and disagreement going on, we nomads seem to drift around purpose less....It seems as if we have nothing to say, unless we are attacking or counter attacking. If we can't be objective and agreeable SOMETIMES in this forum, how can we achieve that in our country?

Very wise words dawaco, it's unfortunate more somalis don't share you line of thought. This forum is sort of representative of the broader somali populous as well as the complete lack of understanding and detachment shown by most members towards each other, specially when it comes to politics. Objective reasoning is clearly not part of the somali mentality, in most cases I blame this on a complete lack of what I call realistic forethought.

[Sirrus]

Dawaco

 

“Can one do as the Romans do when in Rome while preserving one's self?” Yes indeed. Many societies have persevered, within the literal Rome let alone the proverbial one. Sweet sis, you must have misunderstood me, I am not suggesting the creation of chameleon generation that will further lead their offspring to oblivion. If I recall correctly my words were “…having partners that are endowed with understanding of the contemporary environment so as to insure both the survivorship of our partnership and offspring.” Understanding is far from practicing. For example the contemporary parent generation has no clue as to the working of the nations they live within let alone the culture. In fact the generation gap you so elude in the future is currently present. Evidence has shown majority of those that are born or raised in foreign lands, not only retain their identity and culture, but endeavor to revitalizing their traditions. All that is necessary is for I and my better half as you put it is to provide the culture setting at home essential to instill in them the cardinal idea that they are different and Voila you got yourself a retrograde generation. You are right no one cannot practice two cultures simultaneous, those that try are confused fools.

 

Sophist

 

Your welcome is dully obliged. The impressiveness of this place dragged me in.

[BEAU_MEC]

Not too sure if this topic is still active. My thoughts briefly: as some one said earlier, it is only human nature to adapt and to change. We somalis are known for our ability to do that (not alwasy a good thing but can be) I guess we really are NOMADS by nature...

 

Anyway what I was meaning to say is that the west is not all bad...take the best from both worlds. Feel honoured to be a part of both societies. No point coming to live in the west to remain in your own shell. Most importantly, know who your are and where you came from. This is why Indians are generally very successful peeps. A second generation British may be born and bred Hindi, but generally he/she will have a firm groundinding in his indian culture.

 

this is my humble opinion...

Adios Amigos..