dawoco Posted January 11, 2004 It is said....if you want to learn something about a person's character, look at the friends of that person....Let's adapt that a bit and say, "If you want to see why Somalia is in ruins, look at the behaviour of a group of Somali people in peaceful interactions" or in this case, use the nomads in SOL's behaviour towards each other to understand the Somali nation better".... I think this is most prominant in the women's section which is the playground for many good natured and sometimes outright aggresive discussions between the nomads. It's this section that show's the outline of the decay of Somali traditions and views. Many things have been adapted to fit the "western civilized" formula and as a result many things are Somali orientated but very western. Most sisters and brothers are proud of being Somali, but what does that actually involve? How does one become a member of the nomad tribe? Is having Somali parents enough? Or does one have to be born in Somalia? Does the fact that some nomads haven't tasted camel milk alter their status as nomads? This must come across very confused rampeling on my part, but most nomads can now duscuss things that were once taboo openly.......wax ceeb la dhoho ma leh meeshaan... And yet when it comes to personal traditions like arranged marriages and something as trivial as baraanbur some views have become radically right winged while others are very liberated. The men seem to be set in maintaining the traditional roles of females, but never complain about the fact that women tend to discuss things that are considered bad in Somalia. And as for the women, we nomad sisters have become demanding. We don't want to settle for basic goodness, but rather want it all just like any western woman. The brothers are no more better. They want a good muslim nomad, i mean who doesn't? But they want a good educated, motherly, modern, house wively, good looking, out going women... The contradictions in that can be easily picked out and no one posseses it. So what's the point of this topic? Well, it's quite simple....Dhulkii waan ka tagnay, cirka neh ma gaarin. Unless there is some kind of argument and disagreement going on, we nomads seem to drift around purpose less....It seems as if we have nothing to say, unless we are attacking or counter attacking. If we can't be objective and agreeable SOMETIMES in this forum, how can we achieve that in our country? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OG Moti Posted January 11, 2004 oooh boy ohh boy .. this is the topic i wanted to post, it seems someone was thinking the way i was thinking and this someone is none than the smart and brave dawaco, see i was a bit afread nomads will attack me and forget the point of the topic, she is so right ... i like the phrase Dhulkii waan ka tagnay, cirka neh ma gaarin. thou i didnt quite understood the meaning but i am guessing she means the girls left their tradition and couldnt coupe up with the western life, so they are hunging in the middle, good point dawaco.... i can see our nomads specially the girls trying to tell the brothers we are the mistake when all we are doing is protect them and turn them to real somalis.. when i say girls i mean most not all.. this topic is what we need, lets discuss and lets come to common ground and see our point of views.. remember open minded person like me always welcome others point of view peace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OG Moti Posted January 11, 2004 lUCKY THE GIRLS INSULTS U AND CALLS U UNTRADITIONAL, AND ALL U SAY IS INTERESTING BUT IT IS OK ANYWAY I AGREE WITH dAWACO ON EVERY THING... PEACE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuCkY Posted January 11, 2004 She DIDnt InsuLt ME...Besides aint nothing InsuLting about being caLLed UntraditionaL.LoL. But I see that u are nothing but a troubLe maker...Look at U Now...it aight though. I gotta run so i wiLL comment Later. Dont Start Nothin' There Wont Be Nothin'! U Wanna Start Somethin' There's Gonna Be Somethin'! LoooL^^^ LoooL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nomad-by-Nature Posted January 11, 2004 ..well like OG_Moti said ..i have to agree with dawaco too..ladies are stuck in between the westernized traits and traditional behaviors..but one thing is ..they usually take the benefits of both..atleast the smart ones do..cuz as long as they young ..and can strive making money ..and getting educated ..they don't mind labeled as westernized..but as soon as they get tired of it..they allways have the easy way out of settling into the good old tradition house wife role..but us..nah we don't have the luxury..lol.however on serious note..most of the ladies in the western world isn't like they chose to be "westernized" either.. but it is because the enviroment and the situation they are in force them..to be more independent..more outspoken .etc..and yeh before i go..Lucky is that little jon am hearing..lol.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evolving_sista Posted January 12, 2004 Asalamu Alaykum very complex issue indeed you have brought up sista. Look..I don't think this is soley to do with females. Brothas be losing their 'somalianism'too, if you are a person who isn't influenced,molded and changed in any way what so ever by your environment then..hurah for you.But I feel I can speak for a majority of the sistas who were brought up in the west..being fully somali (whatever that is?)and not adopting anything from your new home(so to speak) to your character is almost near impossible. p.s Dawaco r u a traditionalist or not? The key to it as Nomad by Nature said is taking the best of both worlds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bilan Posted January 12, 2004 salaam it is very sad that some people consider being independent and educated as a sign of being westernized,i really a dream a day when outspoken, independent, educated somali girl will not be labeled as weternized.and OG-motti do not be so happy uncle the girl was talking about somalis as general not only girls when she said"dhulkiina waan ka tagnay cirkiina ma gaarin".in my personal opinion there are many things wrong in our culture so nothing wrong if some people choose to be untraditional. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
x_quizit Posted January 12, 2004 Dawaco, if u want a cohesive society, then u need to stop pointing the finger that some ppl have become "westernized" and accept ur fellow ppl for what they are today.Many didnt chose to come here, and now that we are, I for one i am glad that I am here, able to take advantage of things that i wouldnt have the chance to back home. And since when was being educated like another astute person pointed out, wanting personal independence, ambitious, looking out for the future become a western phenomenon? Aren't all human beings searching for the same regardless where they are from? Instead of all this meaningless talk about how to become or who is more somali than the rest, we need to think about how to become better muslims, cause in the end, ur not gonna go b4 God and have ur somali(nism) as a shield, what will save u will be ur deen. p.s.-being educated, forward thinking, etc...can all benefit ur ppl in the end, when u raise young ones and send the message back home, that u need to accept urselves and not worry about qabil, which is the real cause of the downfall of somalia and until that is rectified, it will remain a rubble. Peace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king_450 Posted January 12, 2004 The issue is not complex as some of you might have suggested. But adopting or taking some of western traditions might not be a bad idea , after all if what you inheriting is all the good part and using for your own enhancement then it is good. We are in their society but that does not forbid to practice your culture and relegion,at the same time mingle with them and succeed. Perhaps some of us ,this so called freedom becomes too much to handle and fumble it badly,and realize it very late, if you are in that group then there is always time to repent and start over again to correct your shortfalls. As for the educated ones,i see no evil in it,just make sure you enlighten those who are left behind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Macalin Posted January 12, 2004 What do you suggest? Missy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Som@li Posted January 12, 2004 asalaamu Alaykum. It has been easy for many many somalis to change, or leave some if not all of their beautiful culture. for example if u go to middle east , u will see somalis with arab dresses, if u go to Pakistan,u will see somalis with Patani dresses. i bekieve it is impossible for one's tradition to be untouched while living here , the environment around will always have a great impact on u ,and soon or later u will lose ur some identity. Even u try hard not to be touched, there is the unconscious mind" always gathering information" which slowly will take over ur control,,and something which is totally unacceptable in our Diin & culture will one day seem normal to u. it is good to leave some of the bad stuff in our culture,,like Qabiilism. Somalidu armay ku dhaqmaan maah maah da ah"meeeshaad tagto hadii laga il la yahay, Il baa la iska ridaa.". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawoco Posted January 12, 2004 There seems to be a common concensus amongs the sisters that have replied.... Brothas be losing their 'somalianism'too, it is very sad that some people consider being independent and educated as a sign of being westernized Many didnt chose to come here, and now that we are, I for one i am glad that I am here p.s.-being educated, forward thinking, etc...can all benefit ur ppl in the end, when u raise young ones and send the message back home, that u need to accept urselves and not worry about qabil, which is the real cause of the downfall of somalia and until that is rectified, it will remain a rubble. I hope the sisters' who i have taken the liberty to quouth won't mind.... It seems as if our culture is stiffling the girls who want to move forward. Most of the guys seem to have the freedom to integrate, just as they had the freedom to go out back home. Now that they are here they can mingle and "date" and sample all kinds of lifestyles, if they choose to. Though they have evolved to fit into the current mainstream society, it looks like some want to keep the master status they had at home. Are our men discouraging hard working females in order to maintain the patriarchal set up of the family with them as providers? As lucky said, "aint nothing InsuLting about being caLLed UntraditionaL." My question would be what do my fellow sisters consider traditional? and is it because of the men that our girls seem to have such revultion for the tradition? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OG Moti Posted January 12, 2004 War ileen tanookale, sidey ufiicneed Dawacadan bey ba kadartay... sidaan isulahaa tan baa aduunka fahamsan, bey ba keentay waxaan loojoogin oo la arag, Are our men discouraging hard working females in order to maintain the patriarchal set up of the family with them as providers? war bal waxaa ila eega!! ma anigii baan yaabin, mise cadan baa laga heesi waa kii odeygii waaya araga ahaa yiri... waa iga bas .. fara haan kala baxay arintan, sidan si ma aha, markii lasheego dhaqan iyo xeer bey isku yaacaan oo na hor ordaan.. Dawaco i think u changed ur mind after u we all thought u were the wise one and u were telling the sisters to STOP and think a bit and back to our beautiful tradition... peace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bilan Posted January 12, 2004 salaam i will be extra honest here, yes because our tradition is unjust, and favors men, and considers women as a second class citizen,many people including me have lost their trust in that tradition.i will be back with what i consider tradition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
