Social Debate: Do we have culture ?

[Warmoog]

There are several interesting questions floating about this thread?

What is culture?

Do we have culture?

Why do we need culture?

What is my role?

How can the ideals of the four groups be converged??

Which ideal can best serve the interests of the people?

Nomads, I think the issues of ?what is culture?? and ?do we have it?? have been thoroughly exhausted for the most part, but I'd like to add one thing that's been overlooked thus far. Definitions of "culture" are contested and we should keep that in mind because - like culture itself - the meaning of the word (and its usage) is subject to change... and it has changed, particularly since scholarly critiques of the prevalent definition of "culture" in 1980s.

 

Moving on...

 

To keep the discussion going, I'll share my views on the question posed by NGONGE, namely ?why do we need culture?? I think culture helps people approach knowledge in different ways. In other words, it's not only about coming to different answers, but about asking different questions to begin with. With the use of repetition, I'm trying to stress the importance of the word "different" here because that's essentially what culture is all about... difference and uniqueness. In diverse cultures, we see and hopefully learn to understand the variety of human experience. I honestly can't imagine a world without difference. In order to get an understanding of what a 'cultureless' world would be like, we only have to ask ourselves what is the alternative to "difference"? The answer, in my view, is uniformity and to that I say no thank you. Such a world seems artificial and highly unnatural (I'm reminded of Huxley's "A Brave New World").

 

Positive posed the questioned ?what is my role (in culture)?? and I honestly can't say that I have an adequate answer, but hopefully someone else will be able to shed light on that issue.

 

Moving on to the next question, namely "how can the ideals of the four groups (mentioned by Positive) be converged for the best interests of society?", I must say that I think the task of "converging" them sounds a little ambiguous. If convergence means having the four groups coexist as separate, yet relatively equal bodies in society - without the dominance of one group or another - then I think it (the convergence) may be possible. In fact, since Positive argued that there is presently a lack of dominant culture in Somalia, it could be argued that such coexistence may already be in the works and, consequently, is producing the lack of dominant culture. If the convergence, however, means having the four groups unite into a large, homogeneous body then I think the task of creating such cohesion among these particular groups would be impossible... since their general philosophies often have enormous contradictions (ex: the traditionalist vs. the Western oriented, or the Islam oriented vs. the crime oriented).

 

Positive also asked another intriguing question, namely "which ideal can best serve the interest of the people?" Since the answers will boil down to opinion or personal preference, I'll just say that I believe the Islam oriented carry the best ideals. Moreover, I believe their dominance would best serve the interests of any society.

 

Although I appreciate our traditions, I'm not found of the traditionalist philosophy. It's severely flawed because the traditionalists tend to be in a constant, yet hopeless struggle against time and progress. As many nomads have already pointed out, culture is not fixed in society once and forever. Well, in reality, neither is tradition. Both are complex, layered, shifting issues that are essentially subject to constant change (a necessary feature of every society). As a result, the very attempt to fix or freeze culture or tradition - a feat that appears to be the traditionalists' mission - may be unfavourable or even detrimental to its survival.

 

The Western-oriented and the crime-oriented aren't particularly favourable in my view either. I dislike the materialism and continuously depleting morality of the former, and the self-serving mentality and seemingly inherent immorality of the latter. So with that said, I would choose the Islam-oriented group time and time again. There's simply no comparison. I must add, however, that (to some extent) there can be some integration of the ideals of some of these groups. The challenge lies in finding a happy medium.

 

I've been rambling for far too long, and I still haven't said all I needed to say, but to anyone's who has actually read this post in its entirely - I thank you.

 

Salaama.

[Paragon]

NGONGE ... Good points.

[Positive]

It is time to reflect on this topic: Do we have culture ?

 

It seems to me that the ordinary Somali man and woman, that is you and me, are letting our beloved country, Somalia, to descend into a stinking bottomless rabbit hole but paradoxically still without contingence plans or even vague ideas of how we can salvage ourselves from total social destruction.

 

As I asserted in the beginning in this thread, in my view, we are in cultural crisis. To say it in a better way we are in cultural transition. In my perspective the conflict in our country is in fact our own making and in a way we are perpetrators but still victims of our actions.

 

Three main groups which I call: the traditionalist oriented, the Muslim/Arab oriented and the Western oriented are competing. A fourth group which I call the Criminals and confused is mixed in the bowl. The three main groups are vieing for power and they use the fourth group, and also other sympathetic outside countries and groups, as support so that they can realize their goals. Every group believes that their preferred social structure is the one that best suits the country. Their belief that the end justifies the means has brought disregard for human suffering or ethical and religious gaurdlines.

 

Consequently the weak, women and children have become victims for senseless wars without an end in sight.The misery of our youth which compose the bulge of the fighting forces from all sides is unbearable. The country, its infrastructure and every facet of service to a nation has been systematically under demolishing for no other reason but for competition for status and power between the above mentioned groups.

 

Every Somali regardless of his/her ideological orientation or tribal lineage and religious status is a mouthpiece and loyal warrior for one of these groups or usually more than one group.

 

I’m putting the blame of our continuing conflict squarely upon the Somalis.

 

1) I’m I right?

2) If I’m right what options have we?

 

Your contributions are welcome.

 

The Awakener2

[Ariadne]

what are attributes of culture?

 

food, language, style of dressing, dances, music

dialects, superstitions

 

all of the cultures you have described are not really cultures but sub-cultures under the umbrella of Somali identity the people that take up these sub-cultures at the end of the day wether abroad or back home have a dominant culture.....ready for it?

 

it is called

Somaali or Somaaliniimo or whatever else you want to call it

[Positive]

ariadne,

 

When I say culture I mean way of Life. I mean hence that the traditonal way of Life, the Islamic way of Life and western way of Life are not compatable and thus one of them have to gain a dominant position and others as you rightly said could take sub-culture positions.

 

A competition for dominance for our way of Life is the main, I repeat again - main- , source of the present conflict. The reason we can not see through the haze and find plausible solution to the conflict is because the majority of us are aligned with one group or another and thus envolved.

 

If you already know that you are correct you can not become open to other points of views.The upholders of different said groups, everyone of them and their sympathizers, believe individually that they are right and hence will not compromise.

 

This is my view point.

 

The Awakaner2

[Positive]

Talo uu oday biiqay i siiyey ayuu wuxuu ku yiri:

 

Somalidu waxay ku tiraahdaa: Gacmo is-dhaafa ayey gacalo ku jirtaa.

Waxaa loo baahan yahay in qolooyinka dagaalamayaa ay fahmaan xigmadda oraahdan ku jirta.

 

Waxay kale oo soomaalidu yiraahdaan: Xaglo laaban xoolo kuma yimaadaan.

 

Qolooyinka aan dagaalkan lagu hoobtay raaliga ka ahayn inay fadhiga ka kacaan ayaa khayr roon oo ay u hawl galaan, af iyo addinba, sidii nabad dadka iyo dalka loogu soo dabaali lahaa iyadoo aan loo kala harin.

 

 

Toosiye

[Geelle]

Positive;399860 wrote:

Walaalayaal,

 

In another posting Shaqsii asked us many questions. In my view we are in a cultural CRISIS. A new culture is in the making and OUR culture is dying. I say our culture because the new culture is not still ours.

 

Contrary to our cultural heritage, this new culture, is for example, more materialistic. It is more individual centred then group centered and worst of all our traditional family values are erroded !

 

I will here rather present the groups- not their evolving cultural inputs- which I called "new culture in the making in the above pragraph".

 

In my view there are at least four groups in our society who are unconsciously/consciously contributing to this emerging culture. The collective members of every group is always trying to assert their influence on us so that we may share their ideal way of life. Every group thinks that their ideal way of Life has the solutions for the problems we are facing now or any eventual problems which may arise in the future.

 

The groups are:

 

1) The traditionalist oriented:

 

This group prefers our traditional pastoralist culture and/or the other sub-cultures that are indigenous. In their mental make up they are the nomads and/or agrarians and they resent change specially when it cames to culture. They believe their way of Life, or culture if you prefer that word, has been refined through experience in hundreds of years and ( therefore) it has to be the best.

 

2) The Muslim/arab oriented:

 

This group which has now an emerging power believes that the shortcomings of our indigenous culture has to be replaced by what they think is already enshrined in the Quran and Hadith. This group prefers also to bridge the gape between our (pastoralist) culture and the other arab cultures/subcultures. They look with worrying eyes to anything that is not in essence Islamic- even if that shortcoming is in our pastoralist oriented culture. MANY of them believe that arabisation of our culture is a worth ideal to persue.

 

3)The western oriented:

 

This group which has now also an emerging power believes that the western way of Life is the best. They consciously/subconscious copy and imitated "the civilised way of Life" in the west. For them whatever that is not western is backward. Many in this group may be convinced that westernisation of our culture is worth ideal to persue.

 

4) The confused and criminals:

 

This group mostly live in the cities and towns both in Somalia and outside Somalia. They belong to non of the above groups but are still members in every group.They are the confused and criminals in our society and act upon and cultivate the negative nature of the human being. They do not have social norms that regulate their actions but rather manifest the bad and evil through their human form. They are those who are among us and causing misery in our country and poisoning our mental beingness. In short their ( unsconscious) ideal is a society without the rule of law. Where only the fittest can survive.

 

In my understanding the above mentioned groups, and may be others that I have not mentioned, are in active competion in our society to day. Every group is trying to become the dominant. But there is NOT yet one single group that has gained cultural dominance over the others.

 

That is why we are LOST: the lack of a dominant culture

 

Shall we reflect upon these questions:

 

Do we need/have a culture ?

 

What is my/your role ?

 

How can the above ideals of the (four) groups be converged to the best interest of the poeple ?

 

Which ideal of the four groups can (best) serve the interest of the poeple ?

 

 

Your comments are welcome.

 

Positive

 

[ September 02, 2003, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]

 

 

 

Yes, We have culture. Our culture is Islam? whether you like it or not. It seems to me that you confuse yourself. Please bare in mind that this sort of debate sometimes create confusion and misunderstanding to others, specially those who born and brought up here in a western society. thank you

[Man Of Freedom]

Do we have a culture? is this a legitimate question and does it deserve an answer!

 

Philosophically speaking, I think this is a loaded question, but it is also question that merits serious attention for some of us might be unfamiliar with exactly what culture is. Personally, I think the first task for all of us is to arrive at a consensus conceptualization of what culture is. how do we define culture in somali context. Is there a universal interpretation of culture? and what are the historical force that shape our modern somali culture? what do we attribute to culture? and how do we separate culture from our religious believes?

 

we know for a fact that our so called somali culture consists some cultural practices that are inconsistent and incompatible with our religious mandates? Of course, without an afterthought, we are required to forsake cultural practices that are incompatible with our belief , for our belief is of a paramount importance to all faithful believers. That said, we are permitted to continue exercising the cultural practices that compliment our religious way of life.

 

As a devout Moslem, culture is just another social dimension that evolves and changes with time. It is adopted and abandoned at will. Culture to me has a multidimensional feathers - some grow and some diminish overtime . But above all, My religion, and my unwavering faith and trust in Allah supersedes everything else that governs my way of life. Hence culture is of secondary importance to me.

[Positive]

Gelle,

 

Thanks for your input. It has to be all right to ask questions. That is what I did but yes I made an assertion that we lack dominant culture. Read the inputs in the thread if you will and show me if my assertion is wrong. That would be fair!

 

Furthermore in my opinion our time has to be one for deep introspection and questioning; more than one third of our population are either asylum seekers in foreign countries or internally displaced inside Somalia, the pride of Somalia, Mogadishu is flattened to the ground and the majority of its inhabitants are living just outside it in unbearable living condition, the cream of our educated elite and many others who could impact our situation to positive direction are instead either sided into opposing groups and fighting destroying life and property or enjoying supposedly a life of ease abroad waiting the situation in Somalia to improve; because of the prolongation of the war the second generation of Somalis who are born in the west are adults now and they see no country they could go back to, etc. Can It get worse? No.

 

Everyone without exception is already confused! But this is another subject which we could discuss preferable in another thread.

 

 

Man of freedom: nice input and thank you.

 

The Awaker2