Were Greek Philosophers Muslim?

[Paragon]

Nomads, I have come across this issue many a times, especially when this arguement is aligned to religion and belief. I have heard claims that some of the most influential philosophers - more specifically Socrates, Plato and Aristotle were Muslims. Some even go beyond that and claim Socrates himself was an Islamic prophet. Thus, some argue, can be observed from Socrates' philosophy and how he abstained from homosexual relations and his belief in one GOD. I could carry on talking about his philosophy for ever, but the main concern for me here is; Have you nomads have any more information about this matter?

 

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Were the Greek Philosophers Muslim?

by Macksood Aftab, Managing Editor of The Islamic Herald

 

 

Some of the most influential personalities in human history are those of the Greek philosophers and scholars, such as Plato, Socrates, and Aristotle. The Ancient Greeks worshipped many gods, but now there is evidence that some of the most influential of the Greeks may have been Muslim or very close to it.

Plato, for example, is considered the founder of modern monotheism. Even though he lived in Greece, in western philosophy the origin of monotheism is traced back to Plato. Plato's philosophy later played a large role in the development of Christian as well of Islamic thought. After the fall of Greece, the neo-platonistic tradition was kept alive in the then flourishing Islamic world.

 

Socrates was Plato's teacher. Almost all of his writings were destroyed, but from the records we have left, we find that encouraged the youth of Athens to question their ideas of gods (for which he was sentenced to death) and overall seems to be very Islamic in tone.

 

Plato's principal student was Aristotle. Aristotle's principles dominated the world for a millennium after his death. One example is the creation of logic. Never before in the history of mankind was logic discussed or taken as a science. There is absolutely no evidence of this before the time of Aristotle. This is astonishing to many historians, because they claim that every event in human history is based on an event that occurred before it. For example, Einstein's theory of relativity was based on works of previous scientist of the 19th and previous centuries. But never has anything or any philosophy been created ex nihilo -- out of nothing. Only the messengers of God can introduce entirely new knowledge or science. Therefore, in a way the creation of logic can be considered a kind of divine act. And indeed, Aristotle was in fact regarded as an ancient prophet by certain Medieval Islamic scholars and certainly as an intellectual messenger by the rest. Much of Ibn Sina's philosophy is based on the work of Aristotle.

 

Aristotle, furthermore, was the teacher of Alexander the Great. It has been argued by many Islamic scholars that the mention of the "Two-horned one" or Zul-qarnain in the 18th Chapter of the Holy Quran is actually referring to Alexander the Great. In this chapter he is presented as a righteous servant of God.

 

The Quran says that God has sent messengers to all nations, and it would seem illogical if God did not send prophets to the thriving civilization of the ancient Greeks. Given this and the fact that Alexander's teacher was Aristotle, whose teacher was Plato, and whose teacher was Socrates, linking them all to certain common beliefs, which could, in light of the above evidence, surely be Islam!

[SomeAlien]

1)does it matter?

2)they were before islam

3)there are 3 monotheistic religions, anyone can claim them.

4)now this is the show stopper. i respect all of those greek philosophers but alas, they slept with little boys, which is against all 3 known monotheistic religions.

 

now ive only roughly studied theyre work, (plato, socrates) and what i remember they were trying to gather mans place in the world and concluded that there was only one creator but i think they were deist i.e they didnt believe that God intervened in earthly matters, he simply created them. i may be wrong though, but my 4 points stand.

[Zaylici]

Having studied their works( Socrates, Plato and Aristotle) and continue to do so, I have been constatnly astonished with regard to their level of sophistacation, does this incline me to think that they were divine, surely, Socrates claimed that he was sent to the city of Athens by the gods( there is famous story on this in his long response to the court, or shall I say in the celebrated Apology, I red this work more than I think 1000 times) morever, he publically claimed that he was divinely inspired, I am not sure if he was a Muslim, but I know based on the works assigned to him( and others too) that he was a good man, my admiration to these Athenian philosphers is an admiration that ordinary human languages fail to cupture, may I say that they were among the finest men that history have recorded, honored are those who labour both for their welfare and welfare of others through the employment of their mind.

[LuCkY]

JamaaL-11 that is an interesting question. I have never thought of that but the articLe did bring up some good points. I dont know and cant say whether they were MusLims or not.But i wouLd be happy to find out as im sure there are some nomads with more info to share on this.

[Animal Farm]

THE GREEKS WERE ****** MEN IN SEARCH OF INTELLECTUAL STARDOM

[ this is my opinion, its not a fact, get it right … YuuuuuUUUUuuPPPP ]

 

 

The Greek philosophers were all atheists; they were more in tuned with individualism and governance than religion per se. They cared more about the self than the collective assembly. If you look at Plato’s imaginary city in the republic you’ll find that he stressed more on altering human nature through nurture than religion teachings. These writers were not men of religion they cared more about reason and rationale than the concept of god. However, they were more concerned about reshaping human nature and reasoning with action and reactions. I’d say they were neither Muslim nor Christians. Basically, if you look at atheists today and how they believe in science and reason, they too believed in similar theories. For example if you look at Nietzsche, who sad god was dead. To demonstrate further that intellectual’s tent to overdraft their own horizons, they get caught up in their own truths (created through theories driven by isolation/illusion) that they forget the bigger picture, because they want to disproof the norm of things. I cannot recall which writer or for that matter pre-enlightenment impressionist said god is in the details, ironically.

 

They were more interested in individual rights. Even today, its really hard to see people who believe in things, were in the age of the over-genius dilemma.

 

‘The words we use shape the way we think. "Genius" has become too easy a word for us to say. The parallel here may in fact be addiction rather than religion: as a culture, we have become increasingly addicted to the idea of genius, so we are dependent on it for a certain kind of emulative high, an intoxication with the superlative. Nowadays it takes more and more genius, or more and more geniuses, to satisfy our craving. It may be time to go cold turkey for a while, to swear off the genius model to represent our highest aspirations for intellectual or artistic innovation. If we remind ourselves that what is really at stake is creativity and invention; if we can learn to separate the power of ideas from that of personality; then perhaps we will be less dazzled by the light of celebrity and less distracted by attempts to lionize the genius as a high-culture hero—as essence rather than force. It's not just another word that we need; it's another way of thinking about thinking.’ http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/12/garber.htm

 

The fact of the matter is that, the Greek philosophers were more interested in their celebrity stardom than religion itself. Today, if more than anything they have corrupted the way we think and conduct ourselves. Ever since we’ve surpassed the enlightenment epoch, we have changed the course of man. We have abandoned religion in its entirety. The problem is now, individualism, and the blasé of post-modernism echoing the establishments of man, and discrediting Allah.

 

For Zaylici who said they have contributed to his thinking and thoughts, you must be careful brother; these men were not men of god. Today, no one has influence over anyone, there’s no such thing as the impressionable mind anymore. Were’ in an age of self-destiny, neo-liberalism, individualism and actually the populace makes it clear that a mind is not a terrible thing to waste. AS the new generation calls, it’s only a temporary unconsciousness and temporary moments, which demand million thoughts where everyone is competing to project their two cents, logically and coherently as possible.

 

Basically, like the Greek philosophers, intellectualism makes you question things, and if the answers you get are not satisfactory to your comprehension, then you lose path. Sometimes things are best left unanswered. The Greeks were not religious at all. They condoned to many sins that Islam condemns. I have one advice to philosophy readers, you actually think your expanding your mind when you read such texts, but in fact your narrowing your believe. It’s more psychological than you think. Intellectualism isolates you, you end up looking down on people, because you think they might be ****** or they lack the intellectual capacity to understand your perspective.

 

 

YOUR ****** IF YOU FOLLOW ANOTHER MANS THEORY, YOUR ****** IF YOU FORGET GOD, YOUR ****** IF YOU THINK YOUR SMART, YOUR ****** IF YOU THINK MONEY IS LIFE, AND YOUR ****** IF YOU DISRESPECT OTHERS BECAUSE OF THEIR CIRCUMSTANCES, YOUR ****** IF YOU JUDGE, AND YOUR ****** IF FORGET YOUR CULTURE AND ROOTS

 

 

I apologize for my long response, I am on another level right now, you could say I am not conscious of my surroundings at the moment; I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone.

[Paragon]

Somealien,

 

"1)does it matter?"

 

......It matters to some of us.

 

"2)they were before islam"

 

.......Yes indeed. But even if they were before Islam, don't you realise that most of what Muslims believe in, is as same as what all Ahlul-Kitaab believed in? And that all Islamic prophets include Moses, Isa and others before them? Thus making them part of what we believe in?

 

"3)there are 3 monotheistic religions, anyone can claim them."

 

.........There were and still are three monotheistic religions indeed. But before things got divided along the way in history, the teachings of christianity and Juddaism were not conflict with Islam, were they?

 

 

"4)now this is the show stopper. i respect all of those greek philosophers but alas, they slept with little boys, which is against all 3 known monotheistic religions."

 

.......Yes, homosexuality was prohibited and not permitted by all monotheistic religions. But Socrates cannot be proved to be a homosexual, for he called it immoral/unethical.

 

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Animal Farm,

 

"The Greek philosophers were all atheists;"

 

 

Animal farm, I am affraid I cannot concur with you on this point, since the subject matter or the question in hand is, 'were the Greek philosophers such as Socrates, Plato and Aristotle Monotheists?' And if so, were they possibly Muslims? It would have been quite desirable, if you could've divided all the Greek philosophers into categories, and then specifically begin to tell us which ones were indeed atheists or which ones wern't. Instead you dismissed the question itself all together with your "All Greek philosophers were all atheists".

 

I must say, your first senstence described your personal opinion on this question very well. But the main purpose of asking the question was to try and gather more information about the question in hand. However, I must agree with you that some of the philosophers whom their thoughts were documented and succesfully reached us, had unusual insights into things that seem usual to us today. And that many philosophers were involved in immorality in regards to their sexual relationships while in a state of atheism. But why do you believe focussing on rational thinking and reason, or even wisdom and virtue is against believing in God?

 

I ask this question knowing that Greek philosophy has had a great impact on Islamic philosophy, and some great Islamic philosophers such as Al-Kindi and Al-Razi had hailed Greek philosophy as a form of liberation from the shackles of dogma and blind imitation. Above that, if you believe all Greek philosophers were all atheists, why then, in that case, did Socrates defended himself against the claims that he was an atheist and a corruptor of the young, when he could have simply let it pass? The main reason why some might think Socrates was is a Muslim, is the fact that Socrates contantly talked of devine beings and eternity, saying the soul cannot be killed and that death itself was a blessing which releases the soul from the imprisonment of the body. He also believed in another world, a better world which he said was eternal. I am not sure about this, but in Islam, aren't we told of the Jugdement day and Akheera? Akheera being the eternal world where all of us will end up?

 

Moreover, Why did Socrates believe to be in the guidance of a devine being or sign? The other important point that needs to be made clear is, if Socrates was a homosexual, why then did he reject the handsome "Alcibades" who was one of his students? Who later become one of his oponents. Socrates refused to return Alcibades affections because he said it was immoral.

 

So, by mentioning some of Socrates believes, I therefore suggest that we must not categorize all the Greek philosophers solely into atheism, without knowing exactly what they were. The writtings or the teaching materials they left behind is not enough for us to reach a conclusion on what they were. Sxb, fyi, I am not a big Nietzche reader.

 

" I cannot recall which writer or for that matter pre-enlightenment impressionist said god is in the details, ironically."

 

Me neither.

 

PS: Sxb, If I reply to the rest of your post, I fear I might digress from the topic in discussion.

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[Animal Farm]

You noted that you did not want to answer the rest of my post, however, if we dwell on the specifics of history it shows that with intellectualism leads the populace into chaos. Plainly as I have stated in my pervious post, knowing too much, or reading the writings of these men does not make you a better Muslim. If not it leads to question things that are best left unanswered.

 

I honestly stand by the comment, in which I have made, that they were not religious men. Off course we all have to adopt our behaviour from some influencing force, whether religion or societal, which brings us to the question of nature/nurture.

 

To simply put it, reading philosophy gets you lost instead of providing you with elucidation of things. I was making the point that, it doesn’t really matter what they were, all we know is that they were not Muslim, because if they were, they would have noted it in their academic mambo jumbo.

 

I agree that the rest of my post calls for a discussing on its own (post-modernism and the blasé attitudes / the contemporary threat to Islam) However, I apologize for misdirecting your debate.

 

I did not mean to post such commentary, because I have no passion for such philosophers.

[Nageye]

Originally posted by Animal Farm:

To simply put it, reading philosophy gets you lost instead of providing you with elucidation of things. I was making the point that, it doesn’t really matter what they were, all we know is that they were not Muslim, because if they were, they would have noted it in their academic mambo jumbo.

Like many other ppl in here I spent years, reading the works of philosophers(including the Greeks) to find out that thing brother Animal Farm posted above. Thanks for this posting!

[Baashi]

Were the Greek Philosophers Muslim?

 

On the basis of what we know about them, my answer is NO. We know through their writings that they were thinkers who tried very hard to understand the nature of man, the nature of God, etc. For the most part they dealt with abstractions. Their criterion of self-evident truths were simple: it should be accessible to human understanding. The light of reason and testimony of sense are the basis in which they reach self-evident truths. They deduce it in systematic and elaborate methodology called logic. The revealed truths – Qur’an and other divine books – were not self-evident truth unless they pass deductive reasoning and the standard of logic according Neoplatonist and other rival Greek schools that adhered the teachings of big shots.

 

The point is the supremacy of logic and deductive reasoning over the revealed truth amounts to denying divine books. Al-Farrabi, Avicena, and other Muslim philosophers who find the Greek philosophy impressive got lost into either circular reasoning or infinite regression. Even great philosopher and suffi Al-Gazali failed miserably to reconcile the revealed truth with Aristotelian logic. He started with the ‘Kalam’ in order to defend Qur’an and ended up contradicting himself.

Unlike Al-Farrabi and Avicena, Al-Gazali at least insisted the revealed truth is not subordinate to the deductive reasoning and the Aristotelian logic.

 

Given the Greek philosophy’s criterion of truth which precludes revealed truth and the guidance of God as basis of truth, I don’t see how someone can think of them as Muslims. Wise men? Yes! But prophets? Big NO. Plato and Aristotle were rivals!! They disagreed more than they agreed. They have different take on the question of free will, on existence, on science, on essence, on theology, etc. They questioned what God do, how He does things, and who He is. You don’t expect that kind of behavior from prophets of God. I concur that Socrates affirms the oneness of God but what’s impressive of this is not he is right but how he reached that conclusion – deductive reasoning! He had not received revelation from God – at least he never claimed that.

[Khayr]

Salaamz,

Baashi, I agree with you definitely!

They were Sages-Wise Men!

[Paragon]

Well Nomads, it was good knowing what you all think of this question. Thank you for your contributions, they made sense.

[Conscious Manipulation]

asalaamu alaykum,

 

Interesting article Jamal-1.

 

Some Muslim scholars believe Alexander the great was King Duhl Qarnyan from Surah Al-Kahaf. Appendix4 of the Yusuf Ali translation of the Quran talks about why some Muslim historians/scholars believe this.

 

Interesting topic, makes me wanna pick up a book on greek philosophy

 

salaam

[Muhammad]

Asalaamu Alaykum

 

Interesting topic,

 

I have heard of the argument that Alexander the Great was infact Zul-Qarnayn, but almost all Scholars don't agree. It is known that Alexander was a pagan. It is said that Alexander, did build a gate in central asia to keep the mongols away, thus some argue that is the same gate mentioned in the Qur'an. This leads to the believe then that The Mongols or the Chinese, people of the far east, are infact Ya'Juuj Wa Ma'Juuj.

 

This is where this argument falls apart, because we know that the Ya'Juuj Wa Ma'Juuj, are not the people on the surface of the planet today, because we know they are digging inorder to come on the surface, i.e. where we are, and we can't see them.

 

Allah(swt) Knows Best!

[Sophist]

Salaams,

 

As aloof as it may sound to some of us, this is an enchanting topic which begs a profound scholarship. I have indeed contemplated this issue more than dozens of times but due to my lack of great comprehension in Philosophy I have become beniguifed alas the whole thing seems nothing short of foolhardy!.

 

Jamaal, walahi my fellow it would be great if some of us paid the required attention to this mater. Insha Allah, when I get back to Univ this Oct I shall endeavor to investigate the matter/.

 

Sophist

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[MiSs_SkyLine_GTR]

I doubt that very much :rolleyes: