Ancient and medivial Somali and horn of Afrrican history

[Zaylici]

Me Moa

I do not incline towards any thoery that asserts multiple origins with regard to the Somalis, the reason among other things is lack of compelling reason to think that there is racial distintion among the Somal. Precisley for this reason I mantain open mindedness with regard to the Somali origin, However, I have been paying close attention with regard to the history of the Somalis as it was evolving to cupture the very forcess that were contribiting to the very formation of modern Somali soceity as it is to day, the secret is that by understanding the fundemental forces at work, you are in better position to prescripe course of action that will better life,

 

My good freind I am assentially revolutionery, that is I am driven by unending revolutionery impulses whose ultimate aim is to better the totality of Somali life, for this end, history teaches without punishment, however, if you were to experiment courses of action to better life, you should be ready to pay the consequences, something that that I wish to refrain in so far as it permissible by circumstances, that is the reason why I am interested in history, history in my humble opinion reveals the nature of human societies and the forces that shape them,

It is long answer, but the above material seems to be good base for futture discussion.

[Zaylici]

I fluently read Arabic, thus I read Arabic medivial sources and some transilated ancientGreeco-Roman sources, I have not yet come across an evidnece to incline me to think that Somalis are Arabian Immigrants, that is not to say I have not come across people both medivial and modern who are arguing that Somalis are composition of people who are Caucasiod, Negriod, like Colombia Incyclobedia (they have version on the internet, they say that the people Somalia and Ethiopia are Causiod peoples that is they are related to the continental Europerian stock), as well as ancients who argue that the Arabs or Semites intermixed woth aborginal peope such as Bantu and Hamites, thus produced modern Somali race, all these lack relaible evidence, thay are speuclations to the best, the main goal is I think to claim that Somalis are immigrants so that they could use against us when we say Somali west or "Zone 5"is ours or NFD is ours, they want -I suppose- to say you were an immigrants so this is not your homeland, live and be silent. God knows the best.

This helps I think Moa, your name stands for a man that I admire with my atmost Zeal, because of his leberation of Chine from worlords and ragional worlords, the modern history of the Somal is quite similar to that of former sickman of Asia, as they used to say.

SO much for discussion

[Mr. Moe]

Dear brother Zaylici: I'm a little confused...are you saying that you went to the said attached site recommended by RAMPAGE? If you did, did you aggree with the material on the site. I personally was impressed by the amount of information that was on it. The most intresting chapters however, were chapter 1: The physical characteristics of Somalia, 2: Origins of the Somali(s). Brother; the site says that Somali(s) are essentially aboriginal. Now what this really means, is that you're either literally from the land ie: sprung up from the ground like a flower from dirt or it can mean one(we) were the first and only ones from a particular area.

Richard Burton (English explorer in Northern Somalia in the late 19 century says:) "thus the Somalis' can feel proud in knowing that they have been living in the region called Somalia for well over 40,000 to 50,000 years. This means that Somalis' or their ancestors have been living in Somalia form the start of "human history." I say this only to refute what I hear on a daily basis and that is we came over from Arabia or Yemen (apparently as recently as 800AD. This is complete horses_ _t. I refuse to belive that an ancient people such us ourselves are only a bunch of immigrants with no God given rights to the very land we are actually from. If anyone refutes this, then why don't we speak a "semetic" language like the Amhara of Ethopia and instead speak a "cushtic(sp)" language? The answer next>>>

[Mr. Moe]

To continue the answer, it's because it's the Amhara who are the immigrants and not us. I think also that we are not decendants, but an original peoples that have been around since well before the ancient Egyptians. Remember we have been around for 40,000 to 50,000 years of history. If there is a Somalian (an un patriotic one...) out there that does not believe this, or does not what to even consider this, then this discussion is not for you.

There is one thing that disturbed me, and that is the story of the "GALLA" people or as they like to call themselves "OROMO." My father always used to tell me that we are decendants from the Oromo...I nver belived that. Not that I didn't believe my dad, is just that I knew (in my heart) that that kind of ingnomous history was definetly not for I. So imagine my surprise when I went to the site (the one recommmended by RAMPAGE); and discovered that we are according to the websites authors related...probably that we are both (the Somali and the Galla/Oromo) from the same Afro-Asiatic ancestor. First forward to modern times and what you have is two related groups that look alike, are in the same language group (Eastern Caushetic Language Group) but are definetly not progeniators/fathers to one another. The Somali is actually suspected of driving the Oromo/Galla out of all of Somalia because of the advent of Islam. Somalians have always been radical and extreme when it comes to Islam, so maybe we should move on to this topic after we have throughly exhausted this topic. Did you know that most Somalians had accepted Islam during the Holy Prophets' own lifetime. This is amazing...I didn't know this.

One last thing, I found out yesterday that the person(S) who wrote this paper for the website are Mohammed Farah Aidid and some Indian intellectual/academic in New Delhi. At first I though no! that's not the same warlord guy. It is. He had this paper commisioned when he was Ambassador to India, and that he paid this Indian lady to do all the research and to write it. I actually like this paper and commend the person who had it commisioned. What do you guys think, was it a good idea or a bad one?

[OBVIOUS]

THERE GOES THE NIGHBORHOOD AGAIN.

[BN]

Interesting discussion. I read something online and thought i'd post it.

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Ending the conflict in the Somali inhabited territories of Horn of Africa

 

Samtalis Hussein Haille - hail0029@umn.edu

 

 

History

 

There is historical evidence from reliable sources to suggest that the Somali inhibited territory of horn of Africa was land of civilization, which was populated since pre historic times. Starting from the Puntite kingdom which flourished before the Common Era to Muslim sultanates that dominated the Somali peninsula and adjacent Muslim states for the last millennia. These city-states had produced tremendous wealth due to their commercial ties with the outside world particularly Arabian Peninsula, India and other Eastern societies.

 

We were informed by both writings left by the ancient Egyptians particularly those in the temple of Dayr-el-Bahari on the west bank of the Nile, and the Perpilus of the Erythrean sea that Puntites during ancient times and Berbers (a name applied o the people and the land inhibited by modern Somalis) during the Time of Christ have used their own bouts to transport commercial goods to Arabia, Egypt and possibly to the far East,to suggest that no coastal cities flourished Pre-Islamic Horn of Africa is essentially ethnocentric and biased reconstruction of history to the least.

 

Eastern coast of Africa was center of commerce that has connection with eastern societies since time immemorial. The oldest known material with regard to the commerce was Palermo stone (the oldest written book in the Egyptian history) which informs us that there was commercial relationship between ancient Egypt and Eastern coast of Africa known at that time as Punt or land of the gods. Some time around the Christ (May Lord grant him peace) we are informed the existence of large Somali Cities by the Peripilus of the Erthraean sea, this book is considered a major reference book with regard to the ancient commerce of the eastern nations. The name of the author is not known; probably he was Egyptian of Greek origin.

 

The Somali cities mentioned in this book are the following Zaila( Avalites), Berbera(Malao), Mosullon (Bandar Kasim, known also by the Somali as Bosaso, it is 260 miles east of Berbra)Bandar Hais (Mundus) Ras Hafun(Opene, it is worth while to notice that this is a corruption of Punt, as many historians believe, and this place is about 90 miles below the famous Cape Guardafui( known to the Somalis as Ras Asayr) Mogadishu(Serapion) Brava(Nicon).

 

It is interesting to note that the author calls this area stretching from Zaila to the entire Gulf of Berbera(Aden, it was only recently when people started calling this Bay Gulf of Aden, in the last two Millennia people have been calling this Bay gulf of Berbera, or gulf of Zayla and therefore I chose to do so) as other Barber country, it is not coincidence that we learn from the famous Muslim expoler Ibnu Batuta who visited both Mogadishu and Zayla at 1300s mentions in his famous book Rehala or travel , that the residents of the Mogadisho were Beber origin and spoke Beber language. He farther informs us that the city housed large student population and the Sultan had writer who recorded all secret information, there are important implications to this simple assertion and they are the following.

 

Somali coastal cities were not founded By Arabs or the Persians

 

Mogadisho and other coastal cities in the Somali peninsula were there since time immemorial as we were informed by the Peripilus, even if we were to grant that that the foreigners once dominated the city, this was not the case certainly at 1300 AD. The claim by some locals that the city of Mogadisho was a walled city and that the local natives were not allowed to sleep at night is fabricated fantasy that has no historical evidence. But one might say that why some authors say that Somali coastal cities were founded by middle Easterners, I would answer that some authors have also propagated that the Somalis were not African indigenous but immigrants from southern Arabia, to this day Some encyclopedia (among them Colombia encyclopedia, search the word Hamites, they have version on the web) claim that that the Somalis are Caucasian decent that is they are the same racial stock that dominates continental Europe. So it is fair to say that there is underlining tendency in many authors to credit others than the native people when it comes to the history and civilization, although, they may have their own reasons which is different than ours, however, we must grant to them the benefit of doubt, thus affording to them, to present historical evidences not biased historical speculations.

 

Article: http://www.somaliawatch.org/archivejun02/020824201.htm

 

UNESCO, General History of Africa, vol. II.

 

The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea

 

Talks about Somali ports starting from point #7 onward.

 

Names:

 

Zaila(Avalites)

Berbera(Malao)

Bosaso/Bender Qasim(Mosullon)

Bandar Hais(Mundus)

Ras Hafun(Opene-Punt?)

Cape Guardafui/Ras Asayr(Cape Elephant)

Mogadishu(Serapion)

Brava(Nicon)

[BN]

The Wonderful Land of Punt

 

Carving of Expedition to Punt by Egyptians

 

 

To the ancient Egyptians, the land of Punt, with its reed, beehive shaped houses raised on stilts above water, was the most exotic and mysterious of places to visit, and from which to receive visitors, for more than once the Royalty of Punt came to the court of the Pharaoh in Egypt. It seems to have been considered by them a most unique haven; an emporium of goods for both king and gods, and gradually acquired an air of fantasy, like that of an Eldorado or Atlantis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zaylici]

Bari Nomad, what is interesting is that the auther of the article, Samatalis Hussein Haille and Zaylici happen to be one and the same person. Thus your contribution by transfering that article to this website was some how an expression of persceived similarity, which was actually right, I authored the article long time ago, perhabs years ago.

As to the Moa, I do not think that there is reason to believe that Somalis were here for 40, 000 or 50,000 years ago. Such claim requires more evidence than supplied by 19th century orientalist Rechard Burton. So, you should be little bit carefull of what you endorse, becuase, it is always a good idea to think harder and remain sceptical. On the other hand, there is no reason either to refute the Orientalist claim, that is you could transfer if you wish the burden of the proof. neverthless, you could not argue either way with convincing reasons. if you beleive you have reasons and evidences with regard to the Somali orgin, please supply them, I have visited all the websites indicated and some more, as said before, the best they can offer is just speculations which are far from from convincing to an inquisitve mind accostomed to plousible rational reasoning and emperical evidences.

[Zaylici]

Thank you Nomad Bari, for correctly mentioning the source of the article and the author. That is good behaviour and lawfull way to act.

Thank you again

[Libaax-Sankataabte]

Zaylici, I knew that was your article as soon as I saw "Haille" and the University of Minnesota email.

 

Good to see another great article of yours. Well done bro.

[Mr. Moe]

Good Luck to you Zaylici...I hope you publish something new soon. I'm dying to use you as a reference instead of the famous "orientalists." If I had my choice buddy, I'd use you as a reference all the time...unfortuantly for me...I'm not as smart as you or the guy that used you.

 

p.s. Moe not mao.