Greater Somalia?

[me]

^^Positivity is the way forward when it comes to these matters. Many of Somalia's problems are the results of Somalia's colonization and the subsequent partition or our lands. Maybe critical thinking from you is too much to ask for.

 

Somalia doesn't need pessimists today, or narrow minded individuals, Somalia needs visionaries.

 

Originally posted by ThePoint:

^Somali-weyn??? Have we made much progress on Somali-yer? Is there the trust that is needed to unite the various groups in Somalia proper - let alone other areas? Can't we learn to crawl and stand before looking to fly?

 

This sort of grandiose, self-deluding chatter is, unfortunately, far too common for Somalis.

Its ironic that the person that wrote the text quoted above should accuse the Somali nation of self-deluding chatter. It could be that you lost hope or that you wish that we loose hope.

 

Somaliaweyn and Somalinimo are two concepts that are inseparable. Somaliyar is a non starter. Somaliyar has nor functioned because it never stood a chance, everything was against it from the start.

 

Imagine that Somaliweyn is a human being. Imagine that person being cut into 5 pieces and then after a while putting 2 pieces back together, do you believe that that person will function in a normal way?

 

The only way that Somalia will be functioning in a normal way is when Somaliweyn is realized. I hope that you can understnad that Somaliweyn is not just putting lands together. Its also re-uniting our people. Its about freeing our brothers and sisters under black colonization. That are oppressed, brutalized and marginalized. Somaliweyn and Somalinimo are ideals worth sacrificing for. These ideals are the building blocks of Somali national consciousness. They can not be erased by just 16 years of civil war. As long as there are people called Somalis, they will be fighting for their re-unification and the peaceful coexistence with their neighbours.

[xiinfaniin]

Right on good ME!

 

There are promising shoots of hope from troubled south that show potential to revive Somalia’s religious and nationalistic consciousness. It’s quite probable these winds of change could indeed cause relatively powerful regional entities to collapse and crumble under its own weight and in the process set its captives free. There are well-meaning but cautious people however who might disagree with this proposition as they see the whole scheme as a feeble gamble on the expense of those regions that have enjoyed, comparatively, stability and peace. I am with you on this though. Somalia has nothing to lose in the upcoming conflict---if it ever occurs. Careful political calculations merit a second thinking on this thing. I know. But these are the days when good Xiin surrenders to the command of his heart. Perhaps the great Somalia our forefathers spoke more often about but failed to attain lies in the ashes of the coming fight with Ethiopia. We have been killing each other for the last sixteen years and none of our contesting clans has been able to come out of it as a clear victor to rule us all. Perhaps a war with Ethiopia would ignite our latent patriotic sentiment and unite some of us for a worthy cause! Perhaps the Ethiopia that our TFG ironically sought its help to govern would turn out to be like our proverbial pig’s thorn---ridiculously weak.

Midda kale soo Cali Dhuux ma ahayn ninkii yiri ;

 

War bal dhumuca rida waa intaas ood dhimanba weydaane’e!

 

Haddii cidda naga hortaagan dawladnima ay Ethiopia tahay, as the case appears to be, then it is a Halloween prank I say, and we should begin thinking big. Think big yaa ME! Instead of tediously attempting to put the political pieces of the south together why not embark a bigger project that could ultimately obtain bigger goals. If it succeeds that is. Why not break the bow instead of seeking a safe heaven from its pointed and raining projectiles! While Somalia’s seasoned political observers are busy figuring out how the final political landscape would look like, why not spark a regional political tsunami that alters Africa’s map for good. We got nothing to lose, literally. We lost it all. We lost our coastlines to a deliberate waste dumping. We lost our fertile land to warlords and drug-lords. We lost our educated class to migration. We lost…and lost…and lost. Markan wa markii la fargan jirey adeer. We are furious like a cornered cat, and we kid you not. We are fuming with anger. We are people who are conspired against. We have fallen in someone else’s sphere of influence,and we got played on. Whatever the cost might be, we must get out of that abyss yaa ME. And at the day’s end, Greater Somalia shall be constructed anew.

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by me:

^^Positivity is the way forward when it comes to these matters. Many of Somalia's problems are the results of Somalia's colonization and the subsequent partition or our lands. Maybe critical thinking from you is too much to ask for.

 

Somalia doesn't need pessimists today, or narrow minded individuals, Somalia needs visionaries.

Positivity is the way forward for all matters but the practicality of daily life calls for a step by step process. Again, one must crawl before one can run.

 

As to blaming all or even a majority of the problems on colonialism - that is a non-starter. Colonialism did not produce the mass orgy of rape, murder, loot and destruction never before seen in Somali history that happened in the 1990s. At some point, one must step up to one's responsiblities. The much greater degree and bruality of colonization that occurred in such places as Kenya and Zimbabwe did NOT lead to those societies' complete collapse yet you so easily ascribe our present situation to colonialism. And you have the gall to decry my critical thinking.

 

I don't see where I lacked critical thinking - perhaps you could point it out to me before throwing out an offhand comment. Same with pessimism and narrow mindedness - you ran quite a gamut there didn't you?

 

I disagree entirely with any need for visionaries. What Somalia needs are people who identify the local, everyday problems and focuse on solutions for them. We have no need for prophets and promised lands - that is God's domain. What we need is a straight forward focus on governance. How can we think about a dream world in the midst of filth? Again - it is a step by step process.

 

Its ironic that the person that wrote the text quoted above should accuse the Somali nation of self-deluding chatter. It could be that you lost hope or that you wish that we loose hope.

I didn't accuse the Somali nation of self-deluding chatter - I said that 'grandiose, self-deluding chatter is far too common among Somalis'. This, very clearly, pertains to individual Somalis. Most of the time - I refrain from generalizations for large groups of people.

 

I haven't lost hope of anything - I hope one day all Somalis will live in one country - but I don't believe that is a priority right now. In fact, I know it is not a priority. BTW, my statements don't determine or define hope for others - that is the domain of each individual.

 

Somaliaweyn and Somalinimo are two concepts that are inseparable. Somaliyar is a non starter. Somaliyar has nor functioned because it never stood a chance, everything was against it from the start.

Why are Somalinweyn and Somalinimo inseparable?

 

Why is Somaliyar a non-starter?

 

Again, my premise is simple. Let's focus on cleaning up our backyards and getting some semblance of decent government before we start discussing the possible invasion of Kenya, Ethiopia and Djibouti. Step by step. What is so objectionable or incomprehensible about this approach?

 

Imagine that Somaliweyn is a human being. Imagine that person being cut into 5 pieces and then after a while putting 2 pieces back together, do you believe that that person will function in a normal way?

Your analogy couldn't be further from reality. All over Africa the arbitrary borders set up by the colonialists have separted peoples but that has not hindered whatever small acheivments they have been able to produce. In our current world - nations are coming together in political/ecnomic unions because they realize cross border cooperation at all levels enhances the lives of all involved. Think the EU or ASEAN. And here we are, below ground level in all aspects of civilized life, dreaming about an expansionist war because we can't function until we are one.

 

The only way that Somalia will be functioning in a normal way is when Somaliweyn is realized. I hope that you can understnad that Somaliweyn is not just putting lands together. Its also re-uniting our people. Its about freeing our brothers and sisters under black colonization. That are oppressed, brutalized and marginalized. Somaliweyn and Somalinimo are ideals worth sacrificing for. These ideals are the building blocks of Somali national consciousness. They can not be erased by just 16 years of civil war. As long as there are people called Somalis, they will be fighting for their re-unification and the peaceful coexistence with their neighbours.

God has created people in a remarkable fashion. Wherever you go the adaptability of man to all situations and events is astounding. But, here you claim that until Somaliweyn is acheived nothing will be normal. Normalcy is a relative concept - surely you can understand that.

 

Re-uniting people is great. But I hope you understand that people can be united in purpose, outlook and belief without living within the same borders. Surely, you can see that - as that is a cornerstone of our religion. For me - I feel a kinship with, firstly, Muslims and particularly Somalis no matter where they are. That feeling of unity is not diminshed by borders or passports. But quite frankly, a greater problem with unity awaits Somalis in Somalia proper. Because, you see, unity is not about brotherly feeling only - it's about dealing with the practical problems of daily life in a consensual and cooperative approach. That is what we need to focus on today in Somalia.

[me]

You have raised few interesting points, however as I have stated before Somalia's current problems are linked very much with the colonial era and the subsequent division of our lands. Since you have not been able to see the link for yourself I might as well break it down for you.

 

The Somalis today are a nation of approximately 20 to 23 million. About 12 million Somalis live in The Republic of Somalia. Approximately 7 million Somalis live under the brutal dictatorship of Meles Zenawi's Ethiopia. About 3 million live in the Kenyan occupied Somali territories. There are about half a million Somalis living in Djibouti today.

 

Before the colonization the Somalis lived together as one Nation in their lands on the Horn of Africa with their culture, their self sufficient economy and in harmony with their natural environment. The Somalis and their neighbours balanced each other out without there being a clear victor.

 

When the colonial forces (The British, Italian & French) came to Somalia, they divided the nation into spheres of influence. In their spheres of influence they used mostly indirect rule. They armed and supported certain clans while oppressing and fighting other clans. It was classic divide and rule. These divide and rule tactics worked very well. Even today when we are discussing Somali's colonial past there are those who glorify the colonial rule there are others who sympathise with the Somali resistance fighters. Some of the conflicts today's especially in Northern Somalia are linked directly with events that occurred during the colonial occupation of Somalia.

 

The colonials also shaped Somalia after its Independence. The 'elite' that took over after the colonial troops left our country were mostly hand picked and educated in London and Rome by the colonials. They were advised by the Italians and the British. It was as if nothing had changed, its was the same colonization with a twist. It was colonization by proxy. The new rulers of Somalia also manipulated clan sentiments for their political games.

 

The interference of the colonials didn't stop or end there. The colonials always had their allies in every Somali administrations. Even major rebel groups in Somalia were founded or financially supported by the former colonials.

 

The division of our land and GIVING it away to our neighbours was clearly not in the interests of the Somali people. It was done so that we would always be at war with our neighbours. The 64 war and the 77 war were direct result of the colonial policies in Somalia. The refugee crisis that followed that war, was the direct result of the colonial rule.

 

This war devastated the Somali economy. It had also weakened the Somali armed forces. The limited resources in the country opened the way for nepotism and even greater levels of corruption.

 

So do you still follow me? Can you see the link with colonialism?

 

Originally posted by ThePoint:

 

As to blaming all or even a majority of the problems on colonialism - that is a non-starter. Colonialism did not produce the mass orgy of rape, murder, loot and destruction never before seen in Somali history that happened in the 1990s.

Yes colonialism is responsible for what happened in the 80's and 90's in Somalia. Colonialism created the division and hate that was responsible for the mass orgy of rape, murder, loot and destruction that we saw in Somalia.

 

Where does the mistrust come from? Do you think that people just woke up one day and said hey lets kill fellow Somalis, fellow Muslims, fellow human beings? This was organized, orchestrated and premeditated. This was coming for a long long time.

 

Originally posted by ThePoint:

 

Positivity is the way forward for all matters but the practicality of daily life calls for a step by step process. Again, one must crawl before one can run.[/QB]

One must have somewhere to crawl to or RUN to. Just crawling or running around like a headless chicken won't get you anywhere. Somalinimo and Somaliweyn are complete ideals. They are not just lets fix my village and we will see how it goes . It is narrow minded to just think that every thing will be alright when we have a good government. BTW Whats a good government? Or whats good governance?

 

Wouldn't it be good government or good governance to think about issues that affect Somalia in drastic ways to think strategic, to think about the long term. The Ethiopian menace must be dealt with once and for all. For security reasons Somalia can not have a strong Ethiopia as a neighbour. We need a friendly and pacified Ethiopia. We need an Ethiopia that can be a loyal trading partner, a democratic and peaceful Ethiopia that can be our ally.

 

Somalia is rapidly becoming a desert state and the Ethiopians want to cut of the Shabele and Juba rivers. If they do that it will destroy the agricultural production in Southern Somalia and lead to famines and population displacements. Do you think that that's acceptable? does it matter whether we are Somaliweyn or Somaliyar if they are actively sabotaging us?

 

 

There are million and one reasons why we need to deal with Ethiopia. Its not just because of the land they occupy. The whole existence of a state as big, 'powerful' and irresponsible as Ethiopia is unacceptable for the Somalis.

 

Originally posted by ThePoint:

 

For me - I feel a kinship with, firstly, Muslims and particularly Somalis no matter where they are. That feeling of unity is not diminished by borders or passports.

[/b]

[/QB]

Don't hide behind Islam and religion while you are clearly ignoring the Islamic message of resistance against injustice. I can tell you that its not very Islamic to say, yea you can keep our land, oppress our people and we will turn the other cheek. Brotherly love, unity bla bla bla doesn't work in reality. This is about survival and for our survival we need to deal with our enemies. We do not have the luxury to hide our heads in the sand. Islam is not a mix and march, pick and mix religion.

 

The Ideology of Greater Somalia is not just expansionism. Its uniting a divided and small, weak nation so that it can be transformed into a regional super power that can serve its people interests and guarantee regional stability. Ethiopia is a regional bully. They are at war with Eritrea, they support the rebels in eastern and southern Sudan, they extort Djibouti, they conduct cross border raids in Kenya and kill Kenyan policemen, they support warlords and druglords in Somalia. Ethiopia has also sent its army into Somalia and that's a clear violation against the UN's arms embargo on Somalia. Ethiopia is an irresponsible state and they need to be stopped.

 

 

We are in our right defend our self against Ethiopian agression. Somaliweyn, Somalinimo and dealing with our regional enemies are ideas that reinforce each other.

[Sharif_seylaci]

Somaliland snm song

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A60Hk7TL-J8

 

waligeed wey jiireysa even the mahid wil take over the world with our flag

[MoonLight1]

Good discussion, seems sol used to have grown ups.