Greater Somalia?

[Lixle]

To Haystak;

I think you should re-read Suburban-Nomad's post...

 

 

HornAfrique;

What was the motive behind posting that map of yours?? Do you think it hold of any value in our part of the world. ...

 

FYI: In Somaliland, we had the SNL not SYL!!!

SNL was led by prominent Somaliland politicians like Marxuum Mohamed Ibrahim Egal, Ahmed Duale, Marxuum Mahamoud Ahmed Ali, Micheal Mariano, Faarah Omaar etc etc...

[Gabbal]

You cannot go from anarchy to claiming so called "recognized and sovereign territories" of other nations.

Many Somalis like Hornafrique and my self don't see territories like the Ogaden as part of Ethiopia. yet they are so called "Recognized" borders of Ethiopia. If you tell an Ethiopian that the Ogaden regions don't belong to his country, he'll ask you to go look at the map "recognized by the UN of course". Even though he very well knows that the majority of ppl in that region are somali, and they are against Ethiopian occupation.

Lander sxb it's good to know we're on the same page. While the U.N is what is legitimizing the Ethiopian boundary, it is what will delegitimize it through peaceful means via the International Court in the Hague.

 

Have you heard of the Bakassi dispute? Nigeria and Cameroon have disputed over the Bakassi peninsula since both country's independence, and at one time almost went to war over it. Late last year the International court in the Hague awarded it to Cameroon and Nigeria contested defeat.

 

That is what will happen in the Horn. I'm not saying that we should take the Ogaden into court at this troubled time, but inshallah when there is a reunited Somalia with a broad based federal government it will be done. I've always thought that if the late Barre regime did one stupid thing, it was the Ogaden War. From there on everything started to go downhill.

 

So if the court gives it to Somalia, alhamdulilah, if not...waxba ma saadinaayi hadeer but the important thing is we have to settle it through peaceful means.

 

Pro "Somalilanders" in this forum have always accused me of saying the "Somaliland" should immediately unite back with Somalia, when I have never said such a thing! I have always said that if "Somaliland" were like "Puntland" I would have no problems with it. If were an autonomous region inside of Somalia, no problemo. I relize that, that's not exactly vanilla icing on chocolate cake for pro "Somalilanders", but that's were I stand.

 

Mujaahid Lixle walaal I don't prefer the SYL over the SNL, or vice versa. They are both equal in my eyes, because they were both fighting for Somali dignity and independence. The only reason I didn't post a picture about the SNL is because I couldn't find one with all of them in it, but if you would like to give me link to a picture about the SNL, I would very much appreciate it. :cool:

[BN]

Originally posted by Mujaahid Lixle:

FYI: In Somaliland, we had the SNL not SYL!!!

SNL was led by prominent Somaliland politicians like Marxuum Mohamed Ibrahim Egal, Ahmed Duale, Marxuum Mahamoud Ahmed Ali,

Michael Mariano

, Faarah Omaar etc etc...

Who was Michael Mariano :confused:

[Baashi]

Bari_nomad,

Michael Mariano was a Christian Somali. He was a prominent veteran of the SYL’s formative years. Dismayed to the ceding of Haud to Ethiopia, he founded National United Front (NUF). As a civil servant and Somali Christian, he led the nationalist struggle for the return of the Haud (part of western Somalia). The fact that a Christian led a militantly Muslim Somalis speak volumes of how determined and united we used to be. His efforts were derailed when SNL and USP had made his Christian affiliations a prominent campaign issue. In 1960 first elections contested along party lines SNL and USP won almost all the seats contested at expense of NUF. Out of 33 seats, NUF won just one. That seat was won by Michael Mariano. He will be remembered as a true Somali nationalist and political hero when history is rewritten by unbiased, impartial authors.

[Gediid]

HornAfrique said

 

That is what will happen in the Horn. I'm not saying that we should take the Ogaden into court at this troubled time, but inshallah when there is a reunited Somalia with a broad based federal government it will be done. I've always thought that if the late Barre regime did one stupid thing, it was the Ogaden War. From there on everything started to go downhill.

Well Barre went a step further when he signed this away in 1988.In his quest to destroy the SNM he and Mengistu signed an agreement whereby Somalia would no longer lay claim to any territory under Ethiopian rule and in return Mengistu would expell the SNM out of their camps in Ethiopia.

[Gabbal]

SNM he and Mengistu signed an agreement whereby Somalia would no longer lay claim to any territory under Ethiopian rule and in return Mengistu would expell the SNM out of their camps in Ethiopia

Geedid brother the only thing I know about that "cease-fire" was that if Siad Barre stopped the incursions into Ethiopia, then Mengistu would dismantle the SNM's military activities in Ethiopia, but not expel them. It was a voluntary decision by the SNM to leave Ethiopia and attack within Somalia.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to be so argumentative, but you have exactly my point Geediid. The Ogaden War was a stupid error on Barre's part, and we are still seeing the reprecussions of that 2 1/2 decade old war.

[Gabbal]

The fact that a Christian led a militantly Muslim Somalis speak volumes of how determined and

united

we used to be.

[xiis]

Gedid excellent point saxiib, they dare cry about somali unity when it was their "aabo siyaad" who signed away somali galbeed because he wanted to finish us off. This is the kind of nationalism (clanism) they really want. Same with Djibouti. If they are really serious about Somali reconciliation and unity to accept the will of the majority in Somaliland like they have accepted Djibouti. But heey they will never do it because genetically programmed to hate Somaliland. So all landers keep your powder dry and get ready for round 2.

[Lixle]

xiis,

sxb, it was a voluntery union in the first place, no body forced us to unite with them... and now it is the same thing, it is a voluntry withdrawal. The unity desolved when the state that existed in between the years 1960-1991 became what deplomats term as "a failed state".

 

Somaliland meanwhile is functioning and has every organ a normal state should possess. It has a a clear internationally recognized borders (this takes the border issue out of the question). It has a distinc national flag, it has a constitution that works, it has a democratically elected president, it has its own currency, it has its own police and military forces, its own miniteries that do function, supreme courts etc etc. All that without any help from the outside community.

 

Somaliland as many would love to label it as a seccessionist region, is not!! it is a state regaining its lost glory. It is the first independent Somali inhabited region, it gained its independence from the colonial powers before all the other Somali regions gained theirs.

[Paragon]

revive it

[me]

Somaliweyn or Greater Somalia hasn't failed because it hasn't been tried yet. For Somaliweyn to fail we need to unite the Somali Lands first.

[Paragon]

^^ I think it is the best time to commence a discussion in matters partaining to the concept of Greater Somalia. Till few months ago, the South was in total chaos, however, after the emergence of the UIC (Union of Islamic Courts), concepts such as that of Greater Somalia were no longer impossible to aim for. The UIC has already started the rhetoric associated with the implimentation of Greater Somalia ideology. The UIC have made clear their desire to regain Soomaali Galbeed, if the opportunity presents itlself. The entities that are Somaliland and Puntland, were in the last few months made to rethink their previously held idea of territorial divisions between what was South-Somalia, Somaliland and Puntland. With such shift in thinking, it is the right time to discuss Greater Somalia

[me]

^^ I think you right with this. The situation in Somalia has changed dramatically in past few months. We have seen law and order return to the South of Somalia. This could be the time for discussing issues surrounding Greater Somalia. But we must not forget that 'clannists' or 'regionalists in today’s Somalia have had 16 years to discredit the ideals of Somaliweyn. They have used every tactic in their books including making the people they control believe that the whole ideology of Somaliwayn was a clannish project and that it would not benefit their clan’s interests.

 

Somaliwayn is one of the issues that clearly marks the faultiness between Clannism and Somali Nationalism.

 

For realising the ideal of Somaliweyn first we need to get back to the position that we the Somali people were in July 1960. We need to unite the old republic and rebuild it so that there are incentives to the occupied territories for rejoining the old republic.

 

We should also support greater autonomy for the Somali regions in Ethiopia & Kenya. We should improve the living standards of our people in those countries so that they can fully participate in the political processes in both those nations. We should encourage political participation of the Somalis living in those countries.

 

We should form an economic, cultural and brotherly union with Djibouti without it loosing its independence. To keep it simple, we need to rethink our methods if we want to realize the Somaliweyn ideal.

 

We should never drop our claims to our lands that are occupied today. We should always be prepared to wage a war if we see the Somali population in those regions is under treat.

[Safi Abdi]

LadyMo wrote:

 

In 1960 Egal brought Somaliland to unite with their fellow Somalis unconditionally. Maybe the only hope of bringin Somalia as a whole back together is to repeat history but with a different twist. Wat if the Southerners handed their Transition government ova to Hargeysa and said its your turn to save Somalia! Let de North take de lead for once wat do ya'll think?>

 

Agree with you 100% this is a brilliant idea, and one that would heal the wounds. I am so excited...Now all we need is to propagate the idea, it can be done, LadyMo. Why not? What have we got to lose if we make Hargeisa the capital city of a healthier Somalia?

 

Baashi, thanks for bringing up this topic.

 

Safi

[ElPunto]

^Somali-weyn??? Have we made much progress on Somali-yer? Is there the trust that is needed to unite the various groups in Somalia proper - let alone other areas? Can't we learn to crawl and stand before looking to fly?

 

This sort of grandiose, self-deluding chatter is, unfortunately, far too common for Somalis.