Islam, Democracy, Tribalism!!! which is the solution to ourproblems?

[Thinkerman]

Hey this is a very interesting topic, with some very interesting views being expressed.

 

Clearly what the whole world needs in this times of a Hyper-power, global pverty and inequalities, lose of morality is an Islamic Revival and somalia/land is the most desparate country in need of this.

 

Hey i found a very interesting article for you noamds to read on a similar topic.

 

Myth Pupetrated on Islam

[The Observer.]

hey

the website is really good, i mean i think you should look up the articles in america and checkout the noam chomsky's article,

later

[The Observer.]

i mean it shows u what the so called democracy is!

haha

enjoy the reading! just three pages

http://iviews.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=IV0305-1958

[Blessed]

Cool article Suju n sososdef

 

 

An interesting question no doubt, though by any reasonable standards it ranks well below a different one: why do we and our allies persist in our own substantial crimes, either directly or through crucial support for murderous clients? That remains unasked, and if raised at the margins, arouses shivers of horror.

Makes you wonder ...

[Thinkerman]

Am glad you found it interesting, i thought that was alot to be taken on board there that is just simply ignored by many muslims.

[zynab]

Like the famoues speech by martin L.King

"i have a dream' that in 15 to 20 years time that somalia will be back to a stable country that has a functional govertment in place. why because since the war thousand of somalies left the country , now you can find a somali whether it's in netherland to russia. Now the next generation is more educated less worried about tribe related issues , when this generation gets back to somalia they will turn the country to one of the peacefull, economicall succesfull african nations and the west better watch out. Don't be spectical about this , it very much possiable . you heard here first.

[Thought_Control]

salam

 

for a starter im new to this so can i get hugs and kisses? thanks my peeps.

 

read what u said and cant help but to notice when u said islam is not compatible with democracy lol which democracy are we talkin about here? islam itself if fallowed the way its supose to be is democratic on its own rights.

 

the democracy under we live in for those who are abroad for instance me in canada and some in usa is an exception for exemple the states democracy is based on consumerism, economics where the slogan is spend...spend..spend human rights comes maybe second if not last. democracy. pluralism. individualism, no sens of communauty, greed, etc.. those are the elements u will find in american democracy. we the united states of america shall dominate the world for our interets and make vassals out of every single country in the world.

 

can tribalism co-exist with democracy? yes ofcourse first and foremost we are one people somalis then u have the components of tribes ****s, gadabursi, ***** ,******e ********* ***********e and so on and so forth. we can have our differences and yet work together quote this please (the future is in the hands of those abroad, seekin knowledge overseas learning doin a little bit of brain storming so one day the building process starts with a new way of thinking for the better of somalis.

 

question is those same people we are talkin about that are supose to represent somalias future are they aware are they doin what they supose to do are they even thinking of goin back home sweet home some day god willing? when i look around somalis i have to say somalis futur is dark.

 

damn wish to continue but cant fridays prayer is near have to go salam all

 

awaiting answers

 

remember americas democracy is about thought control hegemony in other words democracy form of facism

 

please do not pay attention to errors rushin lol

[Matkey]

Originally posted by Thought_Control:

salama

 

the democracy under we live in for those who are abroad for instance me in canada and some in usa is an exception for exemple the states democracy is based on consumerism, economics where the slogan is spend...spend..spend human rights comes maybe second if not last. democracy. pluralism. individualism, no sens of communauty, greed, etc.. those are the elements u will find in american democracy.

asalama alaykum bro/sis

 

democracy, in western context, is what you stressed in your posting. that is what i meant western context more or less. Thus my argument was it isn't compatible with islam.According to my limited knowledge, the term itself can have different meaning and hence it can be practiced the way one sees it fit. on the contrary, Islam fits every aspect of our lives without being distorted. in other wards, ISLAM IS WAY OF LIFE|

 

forgive me if i misunderstood you,

[Waaq]

The title of this thread is both stupid and simplistic.

 

this is not some zero-sum game with discrete outcomes.

 

Islam is not incompatible with democracy. I realized this being the dominant discourse it is impossible for some to separate the nonsense in this arguement. I am sure you are all familiar with IM Lewis's book A Pastoral Democracy, though some will undoubtably critize his work on Somalia (me included). It is impressive to me that a british educated anglo was able to use the term democracy with a social organization the is steeped in both "tribalism" and "Islam".

 

Since the beginning of the European colonial project we start to see this term "tribalism". This term used continually to esstenially argue that Africans are incapable of governing themselves because they incessantly fighting with each other (tribe vs. tribe). Let us recognize this before we move on. Now, no doubt tribalism (if the term actually means anything of value) has caused problems in Somalia. However, in my humble opinion, this is not due to some flaw in Somali genetics as many will have use believe, but the systematic and fundamental use of the social organization of Somalis against themselves. We know that Siyaad used this with success for some 20 years, carefully pitting group against group until those clans that were at once invisible became center piece. Now I for one am not familiar with colonial policies in Somalia, but I do know saw the same nonsense. A program of using the organization of a clan to divide and conquer.

 

How can we possibly get rid of something that has existed since probably the first days of the Somali people. Clans aren't bad, we can all probably think of some wonderful attributes of this system. However, what is bad is when one lets their clan supercede all logic and intelligence they posess. Support butchers and butcher people because of some imagined difference.

 

This is where Islam is central, because Allah has taught us that we are all brothers and sisters under the banner of Islam. Allah has layed out a set of guidelines for us to interact with one another in this brotherhood.

 

My belief is that it will take some time, but eventually Somalia will find a political and social organization that is based in Islam, tribalism, and democracy that is uniquely well suited to allow Somalia peace and prosperity, In Sha Allah!

[Matkey]

Originally posted by Waaq:

The title of this thread is both stupid and simplistic.

 

this is not some zero-sum game with discrete outcomes.

How do you reconcile these three (Islam, Tribalism and Democracy)? that is the unswere i am trying to find. are you implaying Islam, Tribalism and democracy should be parallel.

 

i need explanatory statemen, rather than descriptively stated argument. can anyone give a rational explanation as to how we can integrate these three into state ascendency?

 

thanks

[Waaq]

Matkey,

 

Let me try to explain myself. I was not attempting to argue that Islam, Tribalism, and Democracy should necessarily be coupled or in paralell, merely that I believe this to be possible.

 

Democracy is defined in Webster's dictionary thus,

 

1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.

2. A political or social unit that has such a government.

3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.

4. Majority rule.

5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

 

When IM Lewis called the pastoral system of the Somalis a "pastoral democracy" he meant that it followed the principles described above. For example, a clan elder chosen by the clan to best represent and protect their interests. These elders than met with each other to resolve disputes. However disputes were resolved either by the rules of Sharia or Heer depending on what was involved.

 

I do not mean to insinuate that this system will work in a Modern Somalia, but it is an example of the integration of the three concepts mentioned. My main goal was to question the assumption that these are discrete options, as I do not believe that is true. I hope this helps. I would love to further explain myself, but that would be way too much writing.

[abdikhadar]

eqeqeqq