Dhaqan Celis?

[- Femme -]

^^^

You can not possibly put Islam and Somali culture hand in hand. One is sent from Allah and the other was created by a few old men who sat under a tree.

You nailed it perfectly.

 

The rules of religion dont change...but culture does and continously so on a whim.

[JustCause]

Alle, what is culture, give us a definition of it? Is it static or does it change with time? From your ranting, all I see are self-contradictory statements and nowhere do I see my culture is this and that. While you are at it, tell me/us, what you mean by, “true pre-modern somali cultureâ€.

 

“how come you say Somali culture and Islam are not the same?â€

 

Why don’t you tell us why they should be the same? If you argue they are the same, then surely the following statement you made is wrong!

 

“Look at the Arabs, Asians, Non-Muslim Africans, they all have one thing in common, and that is an easy assimilation and integration to the dominant culture. Why? because prior to their arrivals in the west, they had this culturaly compatible believes and values that were very much flexible,â€

 

If Somali culture and Islam are the same, then the Arab culture is more Islamic since Islam came to that culture first and we received Islam through them. Thus, they are more likely to have Islamic culture (which is the best culture if the two are the same) provided if what you are saying is true! But I don’t think is true.

 

I will give you a couple of examples, of why culture and religion don’t have one to one relationship-- some form of a relation does exist though. Religion may be part of culture but culture is not always part of religion, since there are various cultures within one religion.

 

Another point to bear in mind for example is, within one culture there are various religions, Egyptian Christians, and Muslims they are not much different culturally but very different religion wise. Another example, Indians and Pakistanis, more or less have the same culture but very different religion. Therefore, culture is a tradition, which could be either good or bad, but religion is a belief system, which can only be for good (one hopes!).

 

Another good example to think about is Imam Shafii who changed some of his fatwas when he moved from Iraq to Cairo. This is because when he got to Cairo he saw a different culture and circumstances and thus changed some of his religious views.

 

Isn't that enough to at least for one to think religion and culture are different and yet (some how) shape each other?

 

 

“But always consider these three signs that I believe are the very first symptoms of cultural deviations, (1) The loss of langauge, (2) Spiritual emptiness, and (3) Knowing nothing about ones' History.â€

 

If number two is true, then we Somalis lost culture (whatever that means) a long time ago before we came to the West. Cause as far as I am concerned there is nothing spiritually about taking the life of another human being or dying for a tribe!

[Alle-ubaahne]

JustCause,

 

First of all, my nick is Alle-ubaahne, not Alle. Alle is Allah in somali language. So, please don't associate me with Allah, that may sound Shirk. Secondly, I don't know your cultural backgrounds, but I know exactly that my somali culture is not different than my religion of Islam. May be in English language the term culture implies something else. But luuqadeyda Hooyo, Dhaqanka Suuban iyo Diinta Islaamka isma diidaan.

 

The prophet (scw) used to change the negative aspects of the culture. The rest were always left because they had no elements opposing to the essentials of Islam. Therefore, you don't paint my Somali culture with the current stupidities taken place many parts in Somalia. Your examples are definately off the mark, especialy when you compared the Indians and Pakistanis. Pakistanis and Indians have nothing in common, they differ ethnicaly, religiously, linguisticaly as well as culturaly. May be you were mistaken by their physical appearances! Also, Egyptians are not only different in terms of religion, they differ ethnically as well as culturaly.

 

Each of those countries' you've mentioned are composed in various social fabrics, and you don't embarress yourself by speaking about things that you have no idea what they are in reality, ok. I can see your dissatisfaction for being a Somali, it probably goes in line with the stances of the integrationist professor, Ngonge. No problem, but I am here to enlight you with historical facts pertaining to where Somali Culture has blended with our Islamic belief.

 

Tribalism is not part of the Somali culture, if you believe otherwise, well.. am sorry for your UnSomalian perspectives. Read the history of Somali people; in particular, read Prof. Liiqliiqato's astonishing book about the history of Somalia. There are many books I can offer you, but the fact still revolves that our culture is purely Islamic and those Reer Magaal people you see today are not culturaly Somalian in any sense.

 

You right for some extent that people change their culture, but does that mean the essence of the culture was entirely changed as well? No, come on, be just here. Islamicaly speaking, people change their religion by adding some Bidco rituals, (Innovations). Does that mean the whole religion was changed? I don't understand realy how you want to discredit our culture by belittling its significance as being a pure culture of Islam.

 

My definition of Dhaqan/Culture is that, Dhaqan contains some deep seated and an uncompromising set of believes. The pure cultural fitrah that I believe in doesn't go with anything except Islam. It was derived from Islam. And everything that was derived from Islam is part of Islam. Therefore, the well-meaning Somali Culture (Fitrah) is no different than Islam. For instances, a good follower of Somali Culture does the following, he does good for the parents, he connects the family members, he helps the poor, he sides with the victims, he opposes and despices the gaalo, he loves peace and respects the neighbors, and the list goes on and on.

 

You also mentioned about the proximity of the Arabian culture to Islam, but you forget that Somalians were Muslims before most Arabs had became Muslims by the sword. I don't think you can dispute about the validity of that statment. Read the Siirah of the companions of the prophet, (scw). The first migration was to the land of Habash, Somalia. And that with the subsequent migration has led many of the inhabitants of Habash lands, (now known to us as the disintegrated five Somalia), to become voluntary Muslims.

 

To me, dhaqan is what you live with, and Islam is my everyday Dhaqan. By the way, am still Somalian, and that Somalinimo has more ingrediants of Islam than any culture. Is that hard enough to digest? I think the reason that we can't understand each other is because some of you guys are western educated and were already instilled in some western doctrines that are completely at war with my representation of Somali Fitrah/Dhaqan which is in action with Islam.

 

Finaly, let me say an important point here. If one were a Somalian but doesn't practice in Islam, that person is automaticaly not Somalian. According to the Dhaqan we adhere, we call him Gaal. For us, (True Somalians), Gaal doesn't have any distinctions of color, ethnicity or certain geographical locations. Gaal is Gaal, period. If you practice in my Dhaqan (The True Somali Culture), then you must be a 100% Muslim and belief in Islam. Other than that, you never qualify Somali. This is not a one-man's culture, its the culture/dhaqan for millions of Somalians who lived before me and practiced Islam in the strictest version of it.

 

Wixii danbi ah, ilaah hanaga cafiyo. Aamiin.

 

Ibros (Alle-ubaahne).

[OG_Girl]

^^^ So if I follow your thinking that I am not a moslim!!! cause I don't speak Somali nor know any thing Somali so I am not qualified being somali hence a muslim! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

صدق الذي قال الجهل مرض

 

Arab or other Muslims were exist before Islam and had their own culture. Islam came to them and shaped those cultures, not the other way around.

 

So Islam (religion) which is the foundation , other things that can fit in(your culture), do it.

 

 

Salam

[NGONGE]

Alle-ubaahne, your total hatred for anything western seems to have weakened your ability to read, comprehend, convey or understand any pieces written in English (mostly those written by your good self might I add). Adeer, waxan aad qorayso wax macqool maaha! Fikrada ama mabda’a aad sheeganayso ano kolay waxba Kaman fahmin. Hadalkaga o dhan nac nac eyo mouran ayaan o arka. Marka, bal yaanan danbi kugo galan o khalad kuu fahmin; fadlan, manta laga bilbo af Somali kaleya wax ku qor! En kasto afko ego adagahay wan es khasbi eyo dadaali doona si aan o fahmo calacalkagan badan waxad ola jiidid.

 

 

Silence,

 

Dhaqan Celis as you explain it and understand it, is a good idea that I have no objection to, saaxib. As Somalis, kids (and adults) need to reacquaint themselves with their country, language and culture. This might have been the original message of Dhaqan Celis, but nowadays the whole idea seems to have mutated into more than simply going home and finding out about your culture, at times, there is even an “us†and “them†tilt.

[Alle-ubaahne]

OG_Girl,

 

Eedo, I don't think you understood what I wrote in the above. Please reread again. If you can't speak Somali, that doesn't mean you are not a Somali or Muslim. Arabs are non-somalians and they are Muslims. But here we're talking about the inseparable identities between Islam and Somali Dhaqan. Ok. I admit my ignorance, but do you admit your unquestionable high level intellegence and knowledge? Eedo, dhaqankeyga wuxuu leeyahay gabdhaha yaan waxba laga sheegin, hala amaano. Diinteydana sidoo kale.

 

 

NGONGE,

 

Haye professor. Masha allah, your Somali writings is very impressive! Why couldn't you display that good impression long ago, cause that would earn you some credibilities from us. Anyway, Do you love Gaalo? Aniga ma jecli gaalo sidaan horay kuugu sheegay, kaligeyna maaha, wixii Soomaali ah, isla markaasna Soomalinimada ka dhab tahay, waa neceb yihiin gaalada. I understand your unconditional love for Gaalo, cause they taught you something, and you suddenly programmed yourself with their mindsets, behaviours, culture and so forth. Plus you push the idea of integrationism just to destroy our Dhaqan and Diin. Your plots were uncovered! You speak Arabic as you told me before, now I would suggest you to go to the Arab community and persuade them your hidden Agenda: the integrationism.

[- Femme -]

I understand your

unconditional love for Gaalo

, cause they taught you something, and you suddenly programmed yourself with their mindsets, behaviours, culture and so forth

Your

plots

were uncovered!

Plus

you

push

the idea of integrationism just to

destroy

our

Dhaqan and

Diin

.

:eek: :eek:

 

You have gone too far now! How can you accuse and attack a fellow muslim like that? And by saying YOU are destroying OUR diin ---you are implying that hes not MUSLIM! :mad:

 

Istaqfuruallah.

[OG_Girl]

Alle, nothing to read what you wrote. As you said is bunch of nonesense and in Arabic we have saying :

 

وشهد شاهد من اهلهor الاعترا٠Ùضيله

 

You already decleared you ignorent sit back and learn from NGONGE will you :rolleyes:

 

Salam

[Alle-ubaahne]

FF,

 

Eedo bal u kaadi waxna ma ogide, meeshaan dhaqankii iyo diintii baa lagu xadgudbay marka bal fariiso oo ganbar soo qaado, weydii dadka sideey wax u dhaceen, kadibna waxaad jeceshay sheeg iyo sidaad wax u fahamto. Ma xunyahay hadalkaas?

 

OK, Mr. integrationist has said many times that our Dhaqan is not anywhat legitimate and far from Islam. Also, he said something very offensive about those Mujaahidiin who fight nothing but to upheld the word of Allah by defeating the enemy of Islam. He blatently stated that killing the criminal infidel who made the blasphemious documentary on our religion with ayan xirsi was never the right thing to do Islamicaly! So, you have here a fulltime integrationist who is working for the slow destruction of our values and believes.

 

I don't think Miss. FF that you can understand how far this guy has gone beyond the boundaries. We urge the SOL adminstration to step in here and do some monetaring on the writings of the failed professor, NGONGE. I don't bloc him to repent from those critical misdeeds, but am afraid he's unwilling to do so for Allah's sake. Please, I ask you professor to cease your perpetual attacks on our Dhaqan and Diin. Let's talk gentlemenly and respect each other. Also, stop the too much insults you habitualy throw at me. Do you agree with these two conditions? Yes/No.

 

Ok, nabadeey.

[- Femme -]

Im not interested enough to follow the dispute going on between you and NGONGE. What Im saying is---dont accuse a fellow muslim of destrying your DIIN (<---as if he didnt belong to it) when hes just stating his opinons about DHAQAN <----Which can be seperate from religon.

 

Stop being so stubborn and open your eyes.

 

He blatently stated that killing the criminal infidel who made the blasphemious documentary on our religion with ayan xirsi was never the right thing to do Islamicaly!

As for Ayaan Hirsi <---I agree with him. Does that mean Im against Islam too?

 

What gave that man the right to take matters into his own hands? As I undertand it...it should be a court decision not a random individual's emotional outburst.

 

Assalamu Aaikum

Peace

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by OG_Girl:

Alle, nothing to read what you wrote. As you said is bunch of nonesense and in Arabic we have saying :

 

وشهد شاهد من اهلهor الاعترا٠Ùضيله

 

You already decleared you ignorent sit back and learn from NGONGE will you :rolleyes:

 

Salam

Eedo, I told you, I come from a good family. My mother used to say, "Waligaa iyo alahaa gabar hala tirsan, mana kugu ogi inaad gabar wax ka sheegto". I respect you, but am sorry, I can't understand the Arabic you wrote in there. I know the Quranic Arabic and some few Ahaadeeth. I told you as well that am a major ignorant, but that ignorance will never place me under the authority of that another All-Time-Ignorant professor, NGONGE.

 

Alxamdulilah, I happen to be a Muslim, and then Somali, Masha Allah. Many are realy so unfortunate today for not being Muslims and Somalians. Walaahi I've seen Africans, Arabs and even white Americans wishing for becoming Somalians. Its Allah's bounty for being a Muslim Somali. People are different in many things, for instance, the prophets' tribe, (scw), are different than the other tribes. We invoke for them to Allah in every prayer we pray, especialy at the (ataxiyaat) sitting in our prayers. I myself even wish to be a member of the tribe of the prophet, (scw), (I know that is an impossible thing) but you can see its because I love the prophet.

 

Anyway, O.G. Girl, I give you a green light to go ahead and do whatever you want, since my mothers advices are the assurences that will always restrain me from committing any wrongs agaist any woman. Your Arabic language could be anything, but do some interpretations for your ignorant brother. Ok

[Alle-ubaahne]

Femme Fatale wrote,

As for Ayaan Hirsi <---I agree with him. Does that mean Im against Islam too?

I think he (the integrationist professor) had already influenced you, or may be you are afraid to defend your religion. But its clear you agreed with him one of two reasons, inaa jaahil ka tahay diinta iyo inuu kibir kaa batay.

 

Ilaah baa og wixii kale. I always pray to Allah to bring our people and non-muslims back to Islam. What many of you are saying here are signs to the nearment of the Aaqiro. Ilaahoow na baxso. Aamiin

[OG_Girl]

Listen Mr Alle, we say patient have limit! why you so narrow-minded and biased that you feel obligate to degrade others? So much for every one having the right to opinion. I pointed out my opinion as NGONGE yet you feel it's not good enough.....do you want insults brother instead?

 

Thanks God, If I wasn't Muslim -which Alhamdullilah I am - I would think this is Islam!

 

You and likes you are bad example of Islam and that freaking Daqan Somali you talking about!!!

 

Salam

[- Femme -]

Please, I ask you professor to cease your perpetual attacks on our Dhaqan and Diin. Let's talk gentlemenly and respect each other. Also, stop the too much insults you habitualy throw at me. Do you agree with these two conditions? Yes/No.

Didnt you say this just 2 seconds ago? :eek: I think your suffering from a short term memory.

 

I think he (the integrationist professor) had already influenced you,

As for NGONGE..he is very charming...but I form my own opinions. You really shouldnt give him too much credit...you are getting a tad bit PARANOID I believe.

 

or may be you are afraid to defend your religion

Kix Kix Kix @A-U. Walahi your so funny Have you thought about being a stand up comic? Really...halarious...Scared of what? A bunch of strangers behind a screen? HEhehehehe

 

*still laughing, rolling on floor, tears running down cheeks, beating fists on thigh*

 

 

inaa jaahil ka tahay diinta iyo inuu kibir kaa batay.

This is where its gonna end brother. I dont argue with fools or little boys.

 

This has been fun...but Im getting a headache now :rolleyes:

[Alle-ubaahne]

OG_Girl,

 

Abaayo, horta don't call me Alle, my nick is Alle-ubaahne. and by the way, Alle in Somali is Allah. You repeatedly wrote that word, please stop it.

 

Now, you two ladies are trying to argue with me, but ok go ahead, I know you can definately overcome my positions in this regard. The problem is that I don't how to argue with ladies. I know how to respect our ladies. Please, let me have the opportunity to defend my Diin iyo Dhaqan from those guys that I think were funded by the foreign infiltrates among us.

 

I gave up for good, insha allah.