War Debate

[Hibo]

Full-scale wars are rare and far between, but when they occur, each causes devastation and destruction on a scale never witnessed before (WW1, WW2, Vietnam war, Afghan/Soviet war, Gulf war, Yugoslav war, and the recent 'terrorism' war in Afghanistan).

 

In the last twelve years, battles in which annual deaths amounted to 1,000 or more were raging in Angola, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Burundi, Chechnya, Columbia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Guatmala, India, Iraq, Kashmir, Kuwait, Lebanon, Liberia, Mozambique, Palestine, Peru, Rwanda, Siera Leone, Somalia, S. Africa, Sudan and Tibet.

 

In 1988 alone, there were 111 organised-armed conflicts taking place in 80 different countries, with at least 80 different governments openly sending armed forces into battle.

 

In each of these cases human beings were mindlessly and indiscriminately subjected to personal aggression. The result was not only death and injury to civilians but also the loss of income, homes and family support. And in every one of these cases the majority of victims are women and children.

 

* Sources: (Freedman, 1994, WAR, Oxford University Press), (Vickers, 1993, Women and War, Zed Books), (Shaw, 1984, War, State and Society, Macmillan).

 

KEEPING THE ABOVE INFORMATION IN MIND:

 

Are wars in general and civil wars in particular a solution to political/ social problems or are they the cause of even more complicated problems?

 

Feel free to share ur ideas and opinions.

[Hibo]

Good question.

 

Wars as you have beautifully presented are quite horrible acts but wretchedly inevitable for the capitalist age we live in. If you carefully scrutinize the origins of WW1 and WW2 then you will find out the aetiology of it was indeed money. It was economic motivated. The origins main cause of the first one was Africa and how Germany can get its hands on “its share” of the “commodity”.

 

In the WW2 when Hitler was slaughtering like sheep (or so they say) in Germany, Wall berg, David Rothschild were roaming around in the midst of Nazi rule and surprise surprise!!!!no harm was inflicted upon. You know why? Come on you can interpret the rest.

 

Wars, in general aren’t particularly pleasant but indeed sometimes it is practicable to minimise a great evil by carrying out a lesser one.

 

I am not a pacifist but perhaps you are?

 

Sophist

 

 

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Illumination is man’s release from his self-incurred Ignorance.

[Hibo]

Sorry I meant Hitlet was was slaughtering The JEWs like sheep (or so they say) in Germany, Wall berg, David Rothschild (dare I say both famous Jewish fininciers) were roaming around in the midst of Nazi rule and surprise surprise!!!!no harm was inflicted upon. You know why? Come on you can interpret the rest.

 

 

 

 

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Illumination is man’s release from his self-incurred Ignorance.

[Hibo]

"War is healthy for the State"

Annonymous.

 

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[Hibo]

 

I can understand that some wars do need to be fought. Nevertheless, I can't help but get the feeling that wars are a man's game, fought mainly for political power and greed.

And most of their casualties are innocents.

In the first half of the twentieth Century, civilian casualties amounted to less than 50% of the total death toll, the figure has now increased to over 80%. Thats a lot of dead innocent people!

 

I'm not really a pacifist, but I'm not bloodthirsty either. I think 80% is too high a figure, for us to go gallivanting off to war. I think maybe peace should be pursued more earnestly.

 

Thats jus my op.

 

[Hibo]

How do you think can we solve the war we ourselves are in at the moment?

[Hibo]

Almost Every successful Nation had some sort of a Civil War and fought it at every possible point - To get where they'r Today.

 

In regard to the ongoing Somalia's civil war (utterly disgusting) which has no purpose other then personal greed as you put it and merely a Punishment from God - is indeed more Socially Damaging then it is Politiclly. A War without Aim is just not any different then a Genocide.

 

 

God Bless.

 

 

 

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"He tried to be somebody by trying to be like everybody, which makes him a nobody."

[Hibo]

YOu all approached the matter more maturely, let me just put it in Nomadic way, " ninkii shantaada kaa celin weyso shan sheeq makaa celiyaan".. so I am all passive walaahi when it comes to violence, I rather resolve matters peacefully than use war as means...but in some situations its inevitable... I was watching a film on the HBO last nite "The Gathering Storms".. its about Winston Churchill, and how he ended up becoming the prime minister of Britain. Hitler had been developing airplanes that were more advanced than the most secretly, yet some information was passed down to Winston, who in turn brough this matter to the parliament. Although the prime minister was in negotiations with Hitler, yet in Winston's opinions he asked Britian to declare war on Germany, otherwise Hitler was becoming more n more powerful each day. I am just using this movie to make my point. Sometimes to certain ppl, the answer is just violence. To them passivity is a sign of weakness! And the opponent is left no choice but to gather his arms.

Barwaaqo: Its said, " Maroodi meeshii ku diriraan, coos aa u maqan"...ama " Munaafuq jartii loo wado muumin aas ku dhamaaday" So, innocent ppl will pay for the price of politicians. And that has been seen all around history and as well speak today. So sis, I guess, " Ninboo naftaa nabiyo umadaa"...That was my two cents!

 

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Each one of us is a masterpiece in progress

[Hibo]

Wars probably mean a more tolerant society and more advanced one having seen the ugly side of it all. With alot of bloodshed comes nomarlity and understanding of the repercusions. It shows humans that fighting and killing each other wont solve anything other than reduce them and weaken them to such an extent that they become extinct. All one has to do is look around the world and see that some the nations that are peaceful and their history. However, there are also nations that havent come to the understanding that war doesnt benefit any of them.

 

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There is no Sin Greater Than Ignorance

R.Kipling

 

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(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'

_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'

(il),-`` (li),` ((!.-` S-h-a-q-ss-ii

[AUN]

Since we are in a height of a tenstion, this subject needs to be revived and discussed properly

[RaMpAgE]

Wars tend to leave a big scar which alot of people don't forget but at the same time makes them work hard and better to achieve something.

 

Anyways i heard the Holocaust was a conspircy, and one no about it?

[Gediid]

Somalis say nin aad dagaal aqoon u leheen ayaa ku dagdaga

[Senora]

I believe in diplomacy . I also understand when people say that war can be inevitable, but what Barwaaqo is trying to point out is the fact of how innocent people are affected by this, That is what turns me of from war so much. Considering the whole Iraq thing coming up, it makes me so mad that innocent Iraqi people will suffer for Husseins actions. I dont want to bring up the whole Iraq issue, but i dont belive this is one of those "inevitable issues".

[shyhem]

Wars are good and may i say why?well its natural selection in action.If u can't defend urself u have no business talking the talk.The Iraqis are doing so,trying to play games while in the end they know they don't have the necessary means to win any war.If it wasn't war, Islam will have been defeated by the pagan makkans,so u see war is a necesary evil,that's if u have the guts to win it by any means.

 

Until u fully develop u should keep ur issues to urself like the Malaysians are doing, and we will see if Bush will bother u.

[Blessed]

I agree fully with Barwaqo!

 

There is no justice in any war .. Unless it is self defence. But in general, the only people that war effects are the helpless members of society; women and children. Wars breakdown important structures in society and put pressures not only in the countries involved but all the neighbouring countries that have to deal with the increasing number of refugees. I mean, in all honestly how many more displaced refugees can the host countries hold? Isn't there already a lot of pressure on aid organisations? It takes years and lots of money to rebuild a country... so what is the point?

 

It is really strange, we live in a society where the government is constantly targetting musicians and some groups for inticing 'hatred' advocating and 'violence'. The same government that is calling for the ban of rap music and making legislations forbidding parents for smaking their children ..... seems to enjoy bombing defensless countries. Damn, hyporcits :mad:

 

 

I am a pacifist .. most of the time