Questions? Africans or Arabs

[Haddad]

Originally posted by juba:

this is probably the dumbest question ever! it is quite obvious we ARE FREAKIN B L A C K A F R I C A N S!! just cause our feautures r a little diff. doesn't mean we have to make our own race! take it or leave it folks!

This isn't a dumb question; it's a legitimate question. Obviously, you don't know the difference between "BLACK" and brown. The vast majority of Somalis are brown. Also, you obviously don't know what "AF R I C A N S" means. Being African doesn't necessarily mean being Negroid. There are millions non-Negroid Africans, like Egyptians, Mauritanians, and Caucasians who live across the African continent. Those are also Africans. And Somalis do not have their "own" race. There's no such a thing as their "own" race. There are 3 races: Mongoloid, Negroid and Caucasian. A mixture of races produces a hybrid race. Somalis are hybrid (Negroid+Caucasian).

[CHE]

I consider myself a full blown NEGRO,thus african.

 

We identify with the Arabs and their culture through the Islamic faith,and hence has had tremendous influence on us to the point where some Malis consider themselves Arabs.

 

In my estimation,Somalia joined the Arab league purely for financial gains,and doubt if it had anything to do with being Arabs.

[shyhem]

I don't know about you guys,but i know who i'm and where i come from.

 

If u want to know where your family came from,why don't you do some DNA research.Go and dig u'r great great great great grand father graves and check their DNA.Compare that DNA with yours.If u you think u is from Arabs or Africans repeat the process untill u get a match.Start with u'r family,followed by u'r clan,tribe,arabs,africans etc until u get a consistent answer to u'r question.

 

Asking questions on the net is not gonna help you with anything,if anything u will be more confused than ever before.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by SomericaN:

I don't know about you guys,but i know who i'm and where i come from.

 

If u want to know where your family came from,why don't you do some DNA research.Go and dig u'r great great great great grand father graves and check their DNA.Compare that DNA with yours.If u you think u is from Arabs or Africans repeat the process untill u get a match.Start with u'r family,followed by u'r clan,tribe,arabs,africans etc until u get a consistent answer to u'r question.

 

Asking questions on the net is not gonna help you with anything,if anything u will be more confused than ever before.

You dont need to do any DNA tests to determing who you are as somali. DNA tests are unreliable in determining your ancestors. You can never get conclusive answers about ur ancestors from DNA tests, in particular about distant ancestors. Since all humans descended from common ancestor, there are alot shared and similar genes. For example DNA tests done among black africans from Cameroon, show about 40% of their genes are similar to europeans (whites). Would you have ever guessed that of all the blacks in africa, the closest to whites are central africans from cameroon? Most ppl wud say no. But DNA test are more accurate and useful for determining your more recent ancestors, several generation or so.

 

Somalis are cushitic ppl. Small numbers of somalis have Arab blood in them. Even smaller numbers of somalis have black (bantu) blood in them. But the vast majority of somalis are Cushitic ppl and have history going back to the time ancient egypt. Some traces of that history is evident in present somali culture. So there is no need to do DNA tests to determine your race or wether you have arab blood or black blood in you. If you are a somali with lighter skin then the average somali, then you certainly have arab blood.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

Somalis are cushitic ppl.

I don't know what you mean by that. Cushitic means a branch of the Afro-Asiatic language. If I we go along with what you're saying, then it would mean Somalis are Afro-Asiatic people (Asiatic=Arab).

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Haddad:

quote:Originally posted by Socod_badne:

Somalis are cushitic ppl.

I don't know what you mean by that. Cushitic means a branch of the Afro-Asiatic language. If I we go along with what you're saying, then it would mean Somalis are Afro-Asiatic people (Asiatic=Arab).

Cushitic is just a name given to be ppl who speak afro-asiatic languages. But languages dont always determine ur race, so its not accurate to conclude that somalis are a mix of asians and blacks. For example there are ppl considered asians (Indians, pakistanis...) who speak Indo-European languages which is languages supposedly spoken only white ppl. If you have seen a mix of asians and blacks, you would know they look nothing like somalis. The widely accepted theory about the somali origins is that they are cushiti africans, another branch of the black race. We all know that somalis dont look like most other africans physically, also somalis dont have any cultural or linguistic links with black africans.

 

The problem here is that ppl still believe the racist white man invention of the 'three races of man'. If u believe that the there are only three races-asians, blacks and whites then to explain somalis or other africans becomes difficult. One is likely to think we are mixed ppl since we dont look like other africans. However if u believe that all man have common ancestor but have evolved into present day populations due to environment conditions then it will not be so difficult to explain somali ppl. I dont believe that there is such thing as white, black or asian only. Yes different races mixed with each other but the evidence doesnt add up to explain all the different ppl in the world today. There are ppl who are classified as asians but dont look anything like ur typical asians, ie Native Americans. The best explanation/theory is that each group of unique ppl with their own culture and language have separated from original stock of ppl and as result of local environment and other factors evolved to present ppl. Hopefully this theory will one day replace the three race theory of human kind.

 

This is just my opinion. I accept somalis to be cushitic ppl and to me that means a unique race among other black races. I definitely dont believe we are mixed, just evolved into what we are today by nature. Maybe its Allahs design. We should just accept it and live with it becuz nothing we say or do is gonna change who we are.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

This is just my opinion.

Of course. I don't know about your qualifications, but there are professionals (like anthropologists) who have concluded Somalis have "Asiatic" blood/features in them. What's more, a simple obervation of a Somali's physique would lead one to conclude some resemblance to "Asiatic" or "Caucasian" features.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Haddad:

quote:Originally posted by Socod_badne:

This is just my opinion.

Of course. I don't know about your qualifications, but there are professionals (like anthropologists) who have concluded Somalis have "Asiatic" blood/features in them. What's more, a simple obervation of a Somali's physique would lead one to conclude some resemblance to "Asiatic" or "Caucasian" features.

I forgot to include in my last post that the theory I proposed is not entirely of my own. I read somewhere on the web a while ago and it is called 'tree and branch theory' or something close to that. Basically it states that the tree represents origin of humans and all its branchs represent the different races of ppl. If I find the link, I post it.

 

The so called professional anthropologists are jokes, there the biggest jokes among any profesiionals. These are the same ppl who said once that somalis were black europeans, others said we are pure blacks. No two anthropologist agree on one thing. To me anthropologist, although they may have formal education with university degree, are doing nothing more than guessing.

 

I know anthropologist say we have caucasian (whatever that means) which means we are blacks mixed with asians or caucasians. Terms like caucasians and asians and negreo are invented by white men. There arent absolute truth. Of couse it doesnt mean there is no truth in them as well. But if go back to history when classification of human race was instituted, it was around the time when westerners were trying to understand all the ppl in the world. So they came up with these terms to refer to different ppl. The rational behind was to see whites position among different races. To them it made perfect sense to say there is asian, negro and white races only. But lets say that it was somalis in whites position, wud they have said there are only three races. I doubt it. More so since there is no evidence to support white, asian and negro only theory.

 

Of course I have no qualification, just university student studying science and that is what I think.

[Haddad]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

The so called professional anthropologists are jokes, there the biggest jokes among any profesiionals.

I gather this is your personal opinion. Or, did professionals conclude that?

[sudanes]

Originally posted by Conquest:

very interesting debate. too bad I came late, some of you might have given a similar answer to what I'm going to say, so I opologise.

 

Are we Somalis: Africans or Arabs?

 

First before ask this question you should ask:

 

what does it mean to Somali?

what does it mean to be African?

what does it mean to be Arab?

 

 

we know that not all Somalis share the same anscester. so this question can not possibly have one answer, i.e. African or Arab.

 

you can't deny the fact that some Somalis are desendents of Africans, Arabs, Persians, and even Indians.

 

another question is Are you who your father was or who your mother was, or the color you have?

 

There are some whose their mother was an African but their father was not, who have a dark skin, are they Arab or African?. There are others who have a black father, who married the daughter of a Arab man, and they have a light skin, are they Arab or African?

 

If you also say that we are from Africa because our country is in Africa. Do you know that the word Africa(n) comes from Ifriqos bin Qais bin Saifi, one of the Kings of Yemen.

 

 

now if we agree to this, then the answer to your question can be: one Somali can be African, Another can be Arab, and Another Somali can be Neither. Now everyone can choose who he is. If someone claims to be Arab, why should you care? but if he tells you that you are Arab and you believe otherwise, then you can argue with him and prove your case, that you are not Arab. You don't need to prove that he is not Arab.

 

what is important is that We have a great culture, history, and due to our location in the world (center of the world) we have very rich and diverse culture and ancestors.

 

Humans evolved in our area of the world, this also means that when people began to spread around, many of them passed through East Africa, for example the Berbers of North Africa is said to have came from Somalia, the Tuaregs of Mali also came from africa, And Many others.

 

What is important is that we are all the children of Adam and we can all agree on that. At least I hope so, there are some who claim to be from monkeys, I hope their aren't any Somalis who believe we are the children of a Daaxuur.

I THINK U MADE VERY GOOD POINT MAN .

SINE SOMALIS I HOME TO PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT DESCENT,ARABS,IMDIANS AND AFRICANS AS YOU SAID BEFORE WHY CANT THEY ACCEPT BEING ARAB NATION SINCE MOST ARABD NATIONS HAVE DARK SKIN ARABS HENCE HAVE AFRICAN ANCESTORS AND STILL CALL THEMSELVIES ARAB NATION LIKE OMAN,YEMEN AN,SUDAN,EGYPT AND SAUDI.

 

I MEAN I COPULD GO TO SAUDI ARABIA AND SAY I AM SAUDI BECAUSE THEY HAVE DARK SKIN SAUDIS..I AM SURE THEY WILL ASK ME MY PASSPORT 4 PROOF RATHER THAN WERE MY ANCESTORS COME FORM.

 

AND ALSO WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TO REMEBER IS SOMALIS IN MIDDLE EAST ESPECIALLY WHEN I VISITED EMMIRATES THEY WERE ALL CLASSIFIED AS ARABS AND THE ONES I MET THEY TALK LIKE THEY ARABS AND NATIVE EMMIRATES DONT CONSIDER THEM AS AFRICAN NO MATTER HOW MUCH SOMALIS THINK THEY ARE BALCK.

 

EVEN WHEN I HAVE BEEN TO EGYPT THEY ALWAYS VIEW AS NUBIANS RATHER THAN BLACK,THE FUNNY THING WAS I HAD THIS EGYPTIANS FRIENS WHO HATED THE NIGERIANS AND HE USED TO COME TO ME AND TELL ME HOW HE HATES BLACKS I AM NOT SAYING IT IS RIGHT WHAT HE SAID ..BUT IF YOU LOOK AT FROM HIS POSITION YOU WONDER WHY WOULD AN EGYPTIAN TALK BLACK PEOPLE LIKE INFRONT OF SOMALIS..THE TRUTH IS THE ARABS DONT SEE SOMALIS AS BALCK OR ELSE THEY WOULD HAVE LABELLED THEIR DARK SKIN ARABS AS AFRICANS BUT SURPRISE SURPRISE THEY DIDNT AND WE ALL KNOW HOW RACIST THE ARABS ARE AND STILL WOULD NEVER DARE TO EVEN CALL BALCK THEIR DARK SKIN ARABS.

 

YOU GO AND TELL THE MAN WHO EXATCUED THE SIX SOMALIS IN SAUDI ARABIS THAT HE IS BALCK..YOU WILL THE LAUGHING STOCK IN SAUDI!!!

[sudanes]

Originally posted by Yasmine:

This is a complex issue and I don't think anyone will know the complete story (i.e. where we fit into the "History of Africa") until the origin of Somali people is studied extensively. Although a few have already done so, there isn't one mainstream theory upon which everyone can agree. Asking whether Somalis are Arab or African can have anyone trying to explain for hours because the question itself is somewhat ambiguous. Under what context are you using the terms

African

and

Arab

? The two are not mutually exclusive because a person can be Arab and African at the same time.

 

In addition, being African does not necessarily mean being Negroid because a large number of Africans (particularly Easterners and Northerners) are not. Africa is a very diverse continent inhabited by numerous races (some native to the continent and some originating elsewhere) and we should place people in rigid categories because, in doing so, we would be oversimplify long, complex histories that often involve a great deal of intermarriage and fusion between differing races. Yet in the midst of all this racial confusion, I think one fact remains concrete: Somalis are Africans, and to state otherwise is false. Or is it wishful thinking?

 

For those who argue that Somalia is in the Arab League and it must therefore be an Arab country, here's a little reminder: the Arab league is a POLITICAL ENTITY and a government's association with it does not define the racial identity of its populace. Moreover, several countries go back and forth between the Arab League and the African League (e.g. Somalia, Libya, Egypt), but it's obvious their motives are purely political. But, considering the fact that Somalia's seat has been empty for more than a decade, what difference does having a place in the Arab League make anyway? And since we're on that topic, I don't think anyone should take pride in being part of an organization that has disgraced Muslims everywhere time and time again.

 

That's my measly 2 cents.

 

Salaama.

FIRST LET SAY THIS "YOU SAID SOME HAD TO DO RESERCH ON SOMALI HISTORY" ONE THING I WOULD MOT ACCEPT IS THE RESERCH TO BE DONE BY WHITE PEOPLE.

 

I HATE TO FIND OUT SOMALIS WHERE SLAVES OF EGYPTIANS BEFORE ISLAM LIKE THEY DONE TO THE NUBIANS.AND BELIEVE ME IT WONT BE THAT FAR AWAY FROM THOSE THINKIMG ESPECIALLY WHEN WHITE MAN IS DOING RESERCH .

IF ANTHROPOPLGIST WANT TO FIND OUT THE HISTORY OF SOMALIS BEFORE ISLAM WELL IT HAS TO BE SOMALI PERSON WOULD DO THAT FOR US NOT WHITE PEOPLE.

 

TO BE QUIET HONNEST IF ALL SOMALIS REALLY THINK LOGICALLY YOU WILL NOW MOST AFRICANS WERE SLAVES OF EGYPTIANS/ARABS.

 

THESE WESTERNS ARE TRYING TO DIG OURANCESTORS FROM THE GROUND SO THEY CAN BRING THE WORD SLAVERY INTO OUR HISTORY, AND SINCE OUR ANCESTORS BEFORE ISLAM WERE NOT MUSLIMS I COULDNT CARE LESS WHAT HAPPEN TO THEM AND REALLY DONT WANT TO KNOW IT CAUSE IT ONLY BRINGS NEGATIVE IMAGES TO OUR PROUD NATION.

[Kashafa]

Originally posted by Missy:

I have a little test for all of u who are still confused as to who or what u are:

 

1)stand next to the nearest white person u can find and compare skin colour. Are u darker than he/she is?.....if answer is yes then u are black!

 

2)next find an atlas and locate Somalia. Is it in the African continent?......if answer yes then u are African!

 

3)finally try to speak in ur mother tongue (if u have forgotten then locate the nearest elderly somali person and try to engage in conversation). Are you/they speaking arabic.....if answer is no then u are not an arab!

 

In conclusion you are: Somali-black-African.

 

This is not very hard to work out people! Now stop talking about this nonsense and post more useful topics such as 'how can i help my people back home'

Well, to tell you the truth, the reason why things in the english language are refered to as negative are black are because europeans would go to great lengths to take away from anything African. Europeans have no great civilization, so they can only glorify by taking away from others.

[Kashafa]

Black is a color not a nationality. Technically, Somalis have different shades. Africa is the Origin of humanity. So therefore Africans (meaning your orgins come from Africa) were here before Arabs. So if you were here first you can't say that you are part of Arab, they are decendents of Somali or Africans. Yes East Africans have different Physical characteristics than West Africans but still part of the continent of Africa. Go to Saudi Arabia and find out how the Arabs treat the Somalis and other foreingers. The show respect to Americans why? So if you are Arab, why is your Arab brother showing more respect to the Kaffas than you brother?

[NASSIR]

We have to be aware of what sets us different than the rest of ethnic Africans. We can't simply regard ourselves racially Africans because majority of the racial stocks that settle in the African(colonial term) continent are of Bantu origin. Are Arabs in Morocco and Algeria ethnically Africans though their countries situate inside the continent? Living also in the west where people are racially categorized shouldn’t change our minds in questioning of who we are. (Remember, the race boxes in which you have to mark while signing an application have only one box for dark-complexioned folks—“African American†at least in U.S.A)

 

The European anthropologist, who went to Somalia in the pre-colonial era, discovered the unique nature of Somalis. He described Somalis as people who are haughty, culturally conservative, and purely nomadic. He took couple of occasions he was involved as an example and which extremely affected his thinking of Somalis in comparison with the rest of Africans he had contacted them.

 

 

He said that one day, he and his translator got so thirsty and hungry. They both came to a nomadic woman. They asked her something to drink and eat. They promised her plenty of money in exchange of her help. Defiant, she replied that it was below her dignity to give food and water in exchange of money. She was so surprised of the white man's insist on giving her money for food and water. She told them that it is our cultural imperative to invite guests for certain period of time. She then grabbed a wooden jar and poured with camel milk. She first gave it to his Somali translator and demanded him to drink before him. She thought of the anthropologist as discomfited and dirty infidel. After drinking, she replenished the jar and asked him to drink until he is completely satisfied. She then gave the jar full of milk to the anthropologist at his turn and asked him if he wanted to be replenished. After the anthropologist finished drinking, she washed the wooden jar with soap and sand and threw it on high top of an acacia tree.

 

 

The anthropologist labeled the Somalis as the most haughtiest people on earth. He writes of how the Africans, by contrast, would bend and bow for reverence upon seeing his sight.

 

 

I personally believe that Somalis in the past were very tenacious in their culture and race. What surprises me is why so many of us in today’s' world have become so vulnerable to Western influence, including the race relations?

 

 

Allow Somalidii hore sidoodii oo kale naga dhig.

 

walee waa lunney.

[Sniper]

we're neither...i mean we are not Arabs ofcourse, and we're not Africans by blood, nor Arabs by any means...we're probably uniqiue people. But we're in Africa by map.

Thank You

The Expert.