Questions? Africans or Arabs

[RaMpAgE]

Actualy, somalis are not arabs as much as Arabs are not somalis.Somalis are from Cushitic people, who are part of the larger hamitic race.

While arabs are semites.

Heres some interestings things about the Ancient Cushitics.:

The first organized states in human history were founded by Hamitic (Southern) peoples: Sumerians, Egyptians and Kushites.

Kushites were originally settled in Mesopotamia and Sumerians were just one of their tribes. Nimrod was the son of Kush, and the land of Shinar was often called "Kush" even many centuries later. His name was present in the city of Kysh and is still remembered in Kuzistan, by the Eastern shore of the Hidekel.

The anarchic style of Kushites, that were unable to keep unity and to found an enduring kingdom was the main cause of emigration of most of them. Sumerians prevailed over the other tribes, that searched other lands to settle going southwards.

They found fertile lands after having crossed the wilderness of the Arabian peninsula, in the country that now is known as Yemen, and in the opposite shore of the sea, in Africa. The tribes settled in Southern Arabia are usually known as Sabeans, yet, they are not the same people as the Semitic Sabeans that came later in the same geographic area. The tribes in Africa are commonly called Ethiopians - that in ancient times included Nubians and all peoples beyond the southern border of Egypt.

The Kushitic have left scarce traces of themselves as they were overwhelmed by the Semitic cultures that followed, but what is certain is that they had a particularity that was transferred to their Semitic successors until the early Arab period: to have queens rather than kings. There was a high number of women among Kushitic and Meroitic sovereigns, as well as in the early Sabean period in Yemen. Such pattern was also common to other peoples of Arabia for centuries.

The pre-Semitic Kushitics have left some hints that allow to identify them as tribes that created a sort of organized states or kingdoms before the Semites' arrival; they were the peoples of Savtah, reported in ancient chronicles as Sabatan, whose capital was the city of Shabwah; Savtekah settled nearby towards northwest; and Ra'amah, by the Gulf of Aden, in the country that will be also called Himayar or Dhu-Raydan. All them however are usually gathered together under a fourth people's name: Sheva. These Hamitic Kushitics might have not been as important as the preceding ones, but their name became common denomination for all of them because of the Semitic Sabeans that conquered all that area in a successive period.

 

So Lets be Proud of our heritage and ancestre.

:cool:

[N.O.R.F]

Damn 9 pages of muran!

 

I cant bring myself to say i'm Arab even tho there is a case for it, i will always be in denial!

[RaMpAgE]

Nothings wrong with been arab, but their is something wrong been a "wannabe".

[Coloow]

Who cares whether we are arabs or africans? We are somalis who happen to share a border with countries in a continent called africa... we have been for one reason or another become part of a political organisation called the arab league.

 

There is no race called "african"-- yes there are afrkaners (but these are dutch).

 

We are not arabs because we don't speak the languages that arabs speak! but we do share alot with arabs including some cultural aspects!

 

So, who are we???? Somalis of course.... a race called somalis -

 

 

Anyway, saaxibiyaal, I got a severe headache from reading the link that one of the contributors of this thread provided!!! It was typical ethnocentric article disguised as research!!!

 

I am so sorry that our teenagers are exposed to that kind of filth....

 

 

Several somalis have boarded the boat called "somali history" that has been constructed by colonial rulers!

 

This boat is navigated by the likes of Lewis, davis , hallender etc...but in modern times, some somalis have become passengers...

 

I wonder when they would change their theory and write papers entitled "the missing link in charles darwin's theory- the case of somalis)?

[Baashi]

Oral history, with its all shortcomings, is all Somalis have. Make no mistake oral history is the oldest type of historical inquiry, predating the written word. One of the essential construct of oral history is the consideration given to the preserved historical information through recorded interviews with locals. No objective analyst/scholar can sidestep that fact.

 

Now you have a sizable part of the Somali population who believes their ancestory have blood ties with Arabs. We are Somalis, they insist, who have blood ties with Arabs. Yes it is weird! But to dismiss them or to prove them wrong, one has to establish a case that shows there was no blood infussion between the Asian merchants/Sheikhs, and African locals. No one has ever done that. Physical features of Somalis, Oromos, Amhara/tigres, Nubian, Berbers, Tutsis and Tauriqs are almost same and markedly different than the Bantu. They also have another thing in common; they all located with close proximity with Asians particularly Arabs. But none of them bestow much honor on their geneology as Somalis do. Even the colonial orientalist such as the likes of Burton and later Lewis incorporate their hypothesis with this Oral history.

 

Are we Arabs? NO! Are we African? YES if you imply geography. Are we black? Absolutely. Do we have Arab blood, let say 25%? Perhaps. Indeed some of us believe in that.

 

Dr. Edward Saids assertion about imposition of alien notions upon colonized societies by the Occident is evidently right on the mark. He often talks about the myths that Orientalism propogates. Burtons' and Lewis' account of Somali history are valued, it appears, more than Arab writers and local oral history accounts. To write about the indigenous people (by colonial master), we were taught as Dr. Said asserts "is to write with the authority of a nation, and not with the affirmation of a stringent ideology but with unquestioning certainty of absolute truth backed by absolute force."

[Gabbal]

As Baashi mentioned we are Somali by enthnicity with Arab blood or not. A lot of folks have said we have Arab blood and a lot of folks mistook that as saying we are Arab. We are not Arab, and there is no race called African, it is a classification by continent. We are Somalis, who live in Africa, and who might have some Arab blood. Walaalayaal intaas aan ku ganacno.

[Warmoog]

This is a complex issue and I don't think anyone will know the complete story (i.e. where we fit into the "History of Africa") until the origin of Somali people is studied extensively. Although a few have already done so, there isn't one mainstream theory upon which everyone can agree. Asking whether Somalis are Arab or African can have anyone trying to explain for hours because the question itself is somewhat ambiguous. Under what context are you using the terms African and Arab? The two are not mutually exclusive because a person can be Arab and African at the same time.

 

In addition, being African does not necessarily mean being 'Negroid', as a large portion of the continent's population is typically not categorized as such. Africa is, after all, an extremely diverse continent inhabited by numerous 'races'. We really should not place people in rigid categories. In doing so, we would, among other things, be oversimplify long, complex histories that often involve a great deal of intermarriage and fusion between differing 'races'. That being said, I personally do not share the 'racial confusion' (if it can even be called that) some folks seem to possess. This particular issue is neither confusing or cause for subjective judgement because one fact remains concrete: Somalis are Africans, and to state otherwise is false. (Or it's wishful thinking?)

 

For those who argue that Somalia is in the Arab League and it must therefore be an Arab country: the Arab league is a POLITICAL ENTITY and a government's association with it does not define the racial identity of its populace. Several countries go back and forth between the Arab League and the African Union (e.g. Somalia, Libya, Egypt), but they do so for purely political reasons. Even so, considering Somalia's seat has been empty for more than a decade, the country's place in the Arab League makes little tangible difference to begin with. If I may go on a slight tangent here, I don't think anyone should take pride in being part of an organization that has disgraced Muslims everywhere time and again.

 

Salaama.

[BEAU_MEC]

Hi all. I'm new here so be nice!

A few facts:

1.Arab africans do exist

2.the word arab defines a culture and a language (not a race). The 'arab race' is confined to very few people from central arabia (now known as Saudi)

3.Religion and whether arab or not are two entirely separate issues. The simple fact that we are Muslim is not what makes somalis part of the Arab world. Our location, culture and history do.

4.Yes we a black

5.Yes we are African

6.No we are not negroes or bantus, henceforth we are of a different race to MOST of subsaharan black africa.

7.Culturally and linguistically we closer to the arab world than any other. Explain to me why over half our language is arabic (including arabic pronounciation).

8.I dont generally consider myself as an Arab. But as a Somali you can if you so wish. At the same time, we are of course african which nobody questions.

9. We are SOMALIS above all..but just for the record, black arabs do exist.

10. Eveyone knows they are somali..but if some people choose to associate thier heritage with our neighbours acrross the red sea,then let them.

11. For all those who are anti arab pro african..notice I have not once said we are not african or that we are not black..that would be self deception.

12..I should stop now...i think i'm beginning to bore myself..lety alone you guys.

 

Peace

[BEAU_MEC]

sorry its moi again! Anyone who does decide they wish to call themselves arab...then be ready to face racism. Not saying all arabs are racist..but we all know what i mean.

 

Hey Baashi..have u read Orientalism by Edward Said ..i'm assuming you have. Very good reading.

 

@ +

[Sniper80]

yo what your guys on about come on plz give me a break, i thaught that people needed to apply an inslamic point of view to the situation at hand, so plz listen bros's & sis's we are all muslims whether black or white or yellow or red i don't really care because bottom line is we are muslims so from this day forward plz stop the divisions among us because we r all one people one love one DEEN

 

PEACE FROM DA SNIPER

 

1 DEEN

[African]

What never stops to amaze me is how every Somali young and old will give an answer to a question they know very little of as if they are experts on that field.

 

Some of you reclassified the initial question by reaching the analysis that neither Arabs are one race (the North African Arabs and Gulf Arabs are of different race) nor Africans are one race.

 

From this thread I found the following quotes mind boggling;

 

Yasmina: “Somalis are Africans – and to state otherwise is false.”

Sis I find it confusing that in one line you say that Africans are not a race yet you give the above quote.

 

Baashi; “Now you have a sizable part of the Somali population who believes their ancestory have blood ties with Arabs. We are Somalis, they insist, who have blood ties with Arabs. Yes it is weird!”

Is it weird to say that some Afghans have blood ties with Arabs? Yet if you take the trouble to research the Afghan Royal family you would find out that they are direct descendents of Abdulqadir Jilani (an Iraqi). So why you categorically rule out the probability of some of the Somali tribes who claim to have descended from Arabs? We know that in Zaylac we have Masjid qiblateen which tells us early Muslims (who were Arabs) arrived in Zaylac before the qibla was changed from Quds to Mekka. Wouldn’t it be possible that some of those early Muslims might have settled there? Many of the Muslims who migrated to Ardul Habasha (Ethiopia) lead by Ja’far bin Abi-Talib, settled there and some of them took their families with them. Isn’t it possible that some of these Arabs married the natives? So why it’s weird that Some Somali tribes claim to have descended from Arabs?

 

Rampage: “By saying we are arab, simple means we are a nation of confused half breed garacs., and i think we better than that.”

I don’t know who’s the confused person here the child who’s a product of a xalaal marriage between two Muslim people (an Arab and a Somali) or the one who thinks he’s better than an Arab. If the child who’s a product of an Arab and a Somali marriage is “garac” then what would the child of a European Muslim and a Somali be? “untouchable”? Subhanallah!!

 

Rampage: “The anarchic style of Kushites,….. found fertile lands after having crossed the wilderness of the Arabian peninsula, in the country that now is known as Yemen, and in the opposite shore of the sea, in Africa.” “So Lets be Proud of our heritage and ancestre.” I’d rather trace my roots back to a Muslim Arab then a Kushite who was created in the history books of a white orientalist.

 

When it comes to the origins of the Somalis, I can say I have read and heard of the different THEORIES and I stress on the word theories, so I will not say I know the “TRUE” answer to were all Somalis come from. I consider myself as someone who’s learning and have benefited from this debate a lot. None of us can verify the true origins of the different clans and Somalis in general, therefore we can only present theories and speculate but not give a sure answer.

 

An Arab is someone who speaks the Arabic language, defined by Prophet Mohammed (saw) so on this basis we are NOT Arabs, but can be descendants of Arabs. We know that Prophet Ismail is the ancestral father of the people of the Arabian Peninsula, yet he was an Israeli. So would a Saudi say today I’m an Israeli? So on the same analogy today we are Somalis, but can trace our ancestral father’s to where ever our fancy and folktale takes us to.

 

Conclusion: I’m a Somali whose country lies in a continent called Africa, hence an African but if tomorrow the name of the continent changes to Lion then I’m a Lion. I'd like that, the most beautiful animal in the world.

 

Peace

 

PS: Shifta I’m not the poster nor am I doing a research on this subject, but I wish I had the time to do it.

[xamar]

the very very sad thing is that just becouse somalis moved to "white" western world ofcourse the whites see us as "black". They see everyone darket then them as black.

 

But do you know the swedes see the sri linkans as "black"?????

 

So there is something wrong here.

 

Somalis are a unique people related to the ancient egyptians. Just go to a somali maakhayahad you will see somalis with with kuinda straight hair and caucsaoisd feuters. Same case with ethiopians (xabash).

 

 

Dont deny your heritage, We have NOTHING common with jareer.

 

An example for you guys is see the child of an jareer man and white woman, The child will be kinda looking like a somali with little lighte slin complexion.

 

Your a Somali, In the horn of Africa, Where prophet muhammad sallahu alayhi wasalam companions fled to. You are an arab your are an african, most important your a somali.

[Major-General Cawad]

Let me illuminate you one the question posted if we're Carab or Afrikaan.

 

Let me tell you at first as people have already qouted that rasuulullaah salallaahu calayi wassallam already stressed that whoever speaks Arabic is an Arab when asked by the saxaaba who should be called Arab.

 

Secondly there are three types of Arab people;

 

a, al carabul baadiyah or the perished arabs who don't exist anymore like the people who are mentioned in the Quraan like Caad, thamuud, Judais, Cimlaaq and Su'waaha.

 

b,al carabul caaribah the decendents of yacrub bin yashjub bin ghaxdhaan who are known as the carabul qaxtaany

 

c, and finally the carabul mustcarib or arabized arabs who are known as carabul cadnaaniyah and who decsendent from nabi ibraahiim calayhi wasallam.

 

The second group originally came from biladul yaman and they got two branches the xamyar and kahlaan this are the real arabs.

 

the third group the carabul cadnaaniyah who weren't arabs at the first place but who were arabised came from a place called Ur or Ar in Ciraaq and their father is nabi Ibrahiim calayhi wassallam note that Ibrahiim is in itself not an arabic name. Ur is situated on the western bank of the euphrates.

 

Nabi Ibrahiim travelled to a place called xaran that is situated in palastine.And then Allah subxaanah sent him to biladul misr ama masar. And the story goes on. Note that Prophet Muhammed salallahu calayhi wassallam was a decendent of nabi ibrahiim as you know it came about that the prophet ibrahiim left his wife and to Haajirah to a place called Xijaaz and subsequetly makkah from where he and the prophet ismaaciil build the kacbah. Eventually they ousted the group that was occupying Makkah. With the never ending source of Zamzam that haajirah found when Ibrahiim left them alone with Allah subxaanah makkah developed to a rich city and with the pilgrims coming from all of arabia. The qureish also did trade to the south and north to shaam and yaman. these are the favours that allah has bestowed on the qureish but they refused to accept Islaam as their deen hence their most powerful and vicious leaders were killed and some were saved with the grace of Allah.

 

My conclusion is that if you're a Somali who speaks and understands the arabic languange than you're an arab as our rasuul already said.

 

If you don't speak or understand arabic then you've to require it. We're Africans because Tunisians, Algerians, libyans, egyptians call themself africans because the countries i've mentioned are all in africa the same is with Somalia. The majority of sub-saharan africans are bantu folks and therefore not related to us as you can see from their featural differences. We've got alot in common with our north-east african neighbours like the axmaara or xabashis, canfaar, eritereaians and the people of the north in the islamic republic of Suudaan.

 

There are traditions of certain somali tribes being from arabia. Like where I come from their are whole parts where somali is not spoken but arabic places like bandarqaasim, qandala, caluula there are whole folks who can't speak a single word of somali.

[xiinfaniin]

Shiekh Muhamed,

If a cultural anthropologist asks this question:

?الصوماليون:أهم عرب تÙارقو أم Ø£Ùارة تعاربو

 

Then, I would settle with the latter.

[juba]

this is probably the dumbest question ever! it is quite obvious we ARE FREAKIN B L A C K A F R I C A N S!! just cause our feautures r a little diff. doesn't mean we have to make our own race! take it or leave it folks!