JUSTICE Posted August 22, 2006 You all taking the subject into nowhere. I meant from the begining that most somali men I've heard of are mistreating their wives. Money is part of the issue but not the main one. There is a culture in somali society of treating women as second class citizens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ms DD Posted August 22, 2006 Originally posted by JUSTICE: You all taking the subject into nowhere. I meant from the begining that most somali men I've heard of are mistreating their wives. Money is part of the issue but not the main one. There is a culture in somali society of treating women as second class citizens. Are you kidding me? Speaking as a woman, i find that you saying the 'most somali men mistreat their wives' offensive. What kind of people do you know? Can i suggest that you change the kind of people you socialise with. Every Somali women is queen of her home and the men that mistreat their women are minority. The fact you say "that there is a culture in somali society of treating women as second class citizens" is very much off the mark. I am proud to say that we are the only minority in this western country that dont mistreat our wives and women. Your remark above is what i would read from Rupert Murdoch and his rag of filth right wing papers. Totally untrue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NGONGE Posted August 22, 2006 Don’t go burning your bra just yet, sister. I don’t think you’ve grasped the concept of feminism. Still, the problem you speak about does exist but not in the way you presented it. The irresponsibility is not in the fact that men don’t work. Rarely do unemployed men get married these days anyway. In fact, I doubt that many girls or their families would accept to marry an unemployed man (in the West that is). The real problem is one of responsibility. All those single mothers didn’t just happen to be. Now, without attributing blames to individuals and individual situations, when one looks at this phenomena as a whole one has to wonder at the rationality and maturity of people that marry these days. Could it really be that they’ve all had irreconcilable differences? Or could it have something to do with the way society (and Somali society in particular) views marriage? With such a huge number of single mothers about, it’s not a surprise that other marriages suffer. Here you have women in their prime with the time and means to entertain themselves without being encumbered with a demanding husband. They’re free to do whatever they want to do. Married women look at them wistfully and are jealous by such freedom. Why should I cut down going to weddings just because I’m married, they ask! Why can’t I up and go on holiday (on my own) when I want to? Why share, discuss and agree every little detail with my husband when ‘her’ across the road from me (who is of less intelligence, uglier and down right common) could do whatever she likes? I should be free to make my own choices; this is a free country after all. If he (the husband) does not like it, well tough! The men themselves look at their fellow (but divorced/unattached) men and also long for such freedoms. How could ‘he’ across the road from me (who earns less, knows less and is a total simpleton) have the freedom to do whatever he likes and whenever he likes without having to appease his wife, and I can’t? I should be free to make my own choices; this is a free country after all. If she (the wife) does not like it, well tough! In my observations, Somalis are people of trends and fashions. Whatever is fashionable at the time (good or bad) they’ll follow! In business for example, it wasn’t long ago when in every corner and every street we had a Somali Net Café. One started it and was successful and thousands (all over the world) followed. It also wasn’t long ago that we had the phenomenon of ‘classy’ Somali restaurants. Again, one or two sprang up and now even your old dusty Coffee Shop tries to masquerade as a classy restaurant. Even in matters of faith, the jilbab is all the rage! Still, all these examples are the good instances of Somali trends. Yes, in business they do stifle the market and cut the profit margins of others but they’re still a benefit to the whole community nonetheless. The bad trends are more numerous and cringe worthy but, trends, they remain. It’s all trivial and might not be worth discussing (in normal circumstances) but the sad truth is that ALL that is connected with being Somali these days IS trivial, even our politics (or maybe that’s the root cause of it all?). If you want to sort your end of the world, maybe a little arrogance is called for. Maybe you need to distance yourself from those you deem inferior! Maybe if you set yourself higher standards and adhered to them, you’ll rise above the riffraff and become a model Somali! In no time at all, you’ll notice that all other Somalis will follow your footsteps (being the world famous trend seekers that they are) and our society will become an elite, righteous and virtues society. But, of course, as is the case with humans the world over, we’ll suddenly break into classes and arrogance, aloofness and pride will become our visible characteristic (some would argue that we already have it now). But would that be a bad thing, I wonder! Surely it’s easier to change an ordered and principled society than a chaotic one? Ps Pardon my stream of consciousness there; I got carried away a little. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaliyyah Posted August 22, 2006 Asalaamu alaikum Frankly speaking most married couples that I know are being supported by their men, who are always there for them financially speaking. However, it is a fact that many somali girls are college/uni degree holders, and I wonder why we have to look around for a man to support us, when we can do it on our own . Our parents certainly didn’t school us for years , so we can end up housewives, who are just digging for their husband wallets :rolleyes: or did they :confused: . I have seen actually my share of somali sisters who are gold diggers, tryin to get to the richest man, or should I say the one who will offer them the most since I haven’t seen any rich somali guys lol. I am taken aback of how can some one do that, how can you choose a husband based on how much money is in his wallet? :mad: Somalidu waxay ku maahmaahda nin walba naftaada kasoo qaad. I guess that is my 2 cent. Wa salaam alaikum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BORN_BRANIAC Posted August 22, 2006 [/qb]Hey, That is the worst mistake you did in SOL....I need an apology in writing [/QB] oh please please don't tell me u are a GUY... if u are i apologize.. or if that not the issue what u want me to apologize for? just wondering. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Qandalawi Posted August 23, 2006 What is presented here is miles off the mark, Femenism in its original sense is somewhat different as to what is suggested in here. The real original activitism started with female's who wanted to be more like men, and called themselves feminist, It's just funny why call for the promotion of female gender to the status of other gender and still call yourself a name that reveals otherwise better yet claim to be wanting to liberate themselves from the very same gender they want to be behaving more like them. Amazing how clever pple sometime can so wrong and be so ****** .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RendezVous Posted August 23, 2006 Originally posted by NGONGE: .... Here you have women in their prime with the time and means to entertain themselves without being encumbered with a demanding husband. They’re free to do whatever they want to do. Married women look at them wistfully and are jealous by such freedom. Why should I cut down going to weddings just because I’m married, they ask! Why can’t I up and go on holiday (on my own) when I want to? Why share, discuss and agree every little detail with my husband when ‘her’ across the road from me (who is of less intelligence, uglier and down right common) could do whatever she likes? I should be free to make my own choices; this is a free country after all. If he (the husband) does not like it, well tough! The men themselves: look at their fellow (but divorced/unattached) men and also long for such freedoms. How could ‘he’ across the road from me (who earns less, knows less and is a total simpleton) have the freedom to do whatever he likes and whenever he likes without having to appease his wife, and I can’t? I should be free to make my own choices; this is a free country after all. If she (the wife) does not like it, well tough! So this is what causes arguments in a family, that later becomes a divorce which in turn creates single mothers & fathers, kids to suffer and a host of other problems? Practical feminism If at all Feminism does not give these rights: Wear semi-nude, Talk dirty, To do whatever you want in the world calling it Freedom, even against your religion, your family, The fredom to mess your own family, The freedom to riot, smoke, drink and be free, The freedom to become an atheist... Then they call it something else Read This BBC Documentary, [Mary Walker was Production Coordinator on the BBC2 series Living Islam. Article courtesy of Impact Magazine] When I joined the team of "Living Islam" two years ago, my perception of Islam was dominated by prejudice and ignorance, and I found its treatment of women abhorrent. To me the veil symbolised the oppression of women, making them invisible, anonymous and voiceless, and the cause of this oppression lay in the will to perpetuate the family and maintain a patriarchal framework - the very basis of an Islamic Society. I thought women were entirely submerged by divine justification of their role as wife and mother. . . "Living Islam" was filmed over two years in 19 different countries and on location I was a lone female in an otherwise male team. . . The first Muslim woman I met in Mali was far removed from my preconception about the Muslim female. She was the wife of a Shaikh dedicated to converting pagan villagers to Islam. A sophisticated, well-educated woman, previously married to a diplomat, she had renounced a Western lifestyle for a life in purdah. . . The emancipated woman in the West faces the conflict between confirmation of her femininity and the privileges that she associates with it, and repudiation of the confines of her female role and all the limitations that men want her to assume. From where I stood, this woman had transformed those limitations into priviliges. . . On my next trip to northern Nigeria I met two more women who would alter my views even further. . . And once again they had rejected the Western lifestyle which I considered so superior to Islam in its treatment of women. . . The women talked and in their answers I saw the seeds of my own re-evalutions. They argued that the veil signified their rejection of an unacceptable system of values which debased women while Islam elevated women to a position of honour and respect. "It is not liberation where you say women should go naked. It is just oppression, because men want to see them naked." Just as to us the veil represents Muslim oppression, to them miniskirts and plunging necklines represent oppression. They said that men are cheating women in the West. They let us believe we're liberated but enslave us to the male gaze. However much I insist on the right to choose what I wear, I cannot deny that the choice is often dictated by what will make my body more attractive to men. Women cannot separate their identity from their appearance and so we remain trapped in the traditional feminine world, where the rules are written by men. By choosing to wear the veil, these women were making a conscious decision to define their role in society and their relationship with men. . . So were my notions of oppression in the form of the veil disqualified? If my definition of equality was free will then I could no longer define that oppression as a symptom of Islam. The women had all excercised their right to choose. To some extent, they were freer than me - I had less control over my destiny. I could no longer point at them and say they were oppressed and I was not. My life was influenced by male approval as theirs - but the element of choice had been taken out of mine. Their situations and their arguments had, after all, served to highlight shortcomings in my view of my own liberty. Do I say? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Resistance Posted August 23, 2006 ^^ Do you want BARKIN Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Xalane Posted August 23, 2006 Feminism and its principles do not fit the Somalian Folks and the moslems in General.There are things to argue about and the rights of women is not among those to be argued upon,The koran puts direct and clear principles forth for all relationships and the dealings of women.What else is needed than that?Some wicked and famous theory?The concept is not legible so what else?The nomads are all confused and the west confused them more.Cajiib! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
