Islam in Women

[sheherazade]

Just when I post a serious topic I manage to unshackle myself from the PC. Thanks for the replies, keep them coming.

 

Firstly(because it screamed out at me) lets deal with oppression. Animal Farm said:

 

But, I doubt Somali women are oppressed, although domestic abuse is common in our community, not to mention mental abuse,

 

How, Animal Farm is that not a contradictory statement?

 

X said: You also need not to exaggerate and inflate the problems that you are facing. In the society we come from, women are not oppressed.

 

I don't remember exaggerating anything, no mention of figures or stats even. I can lend you my trusty magic carpet. She doesn't say much but she helps me get around and into people's countries. Here, take her and embark on a journey from say TZ through Somalia, Sudan, Egypt. Look out for one thing: FGM, use your analytical skills and reasoning abilities to estimate how many women undergo it in each country. Google if u must some stats on the female populations of each country. Whatever number you come up with, halve it. Then and this is the best part, ask Ayesha(magic carpet) to take u back in time generation by generation. She might put up a fight but say I insisted.

 

What are the numbers like? Do they look exaggerated? Or is the word u are looking for unbelievable?

 

Admittance is the first stage of recovery. One cannot be contradictory and play with words or plead ignorance. A little thought and honesty helps healing begin. Are you claiming ignorance on the subject matter of women's oppression? Or is that more palatable than admitting to it? The problem isn't isolated. Ask Ayesha. She's seen things u've never seen.

 

I don't not know how the choice between profession and home is relevant here. Is a woman that works or one that doesn't less or more responsible for the welfare of other Muslim women? Help me make the connection. Or are you returning to the comfort zone? This post is about leaving that zone behind.

 

7, I've touched on a few different things, u're free to explore the uncomfortable zone. I want to hear what people think and see.

 

Ngonge, doesn't the 'it can't be changed' conclusion just lead to further idleness in us? Isn't faith hope?

[Rahima]

This issue of women not receiving the rights that are said to be given is not only within the Muslim community but the whole of the world (analyse every society and the same will be evident). However for the reason that the rights given to women in Islam are sanctioned by the almighty they should be upheld far more and seen in a different light.

 

With that said Sheh, allow me to just bring up this one question, who are the main obstacles of women receiving the rights ordained for them? Men, women, society in general, our leaders etc?

 

Would it be safe to argue that women are the main proponents of these obstacles? That in essence we stand in the way of receiving our rights?

[Nephissa]

We'r horrendously oppressed by society, and man-made rules. In this phallocentric society, It's a compliment to say that a woman drives like a man or that a little girl is athletic because she runs like a boy. But tell a man his little boy throws a ball like a girl, and see what happens.

 

Back home when girls run from abusive husbands, mothers were the first to disapprove; CEEB, CEEB, don't bring me CEEB. Humiliated and surrendered they go back (bearing cheaters and beaters.) There you've voiceless women who suffer in silence!

 

Growing up, I was always being told that there was only one true way of being a good person as a woman. Over the years I set out on my own path. I became what I saw as a good woman. It has taken a long time and a lot of work to see myself as I am, and not what others say I should be. I don't mean to sound like a pessimist, but somethings will never change. This is a man's world! (to borrow it from James Brown.)

 

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

you may probably know that the four largest Muslim countries in the world (Indonesia, Turkey, Pakistan, and Bangladesh) has voted and elected woman. A political experience that is lacking in America, mind you.

Xiinoow, what you didn't explain is that all of these women(like Sri Lanka's Chandrika Kumaratunga, Pakistan's Benazir Bhutto and Indonesia's Megawati Sukarnoputri) were elected as stand ins for a significant male relative who had died. Upon their deaths, their appointed female heirs were elected as figure heads of the party. They weren't any regular "Halimo" running for office.

[sheherazade]

Rahima, good question. I can not imagine a scenario where an individual who is aware of his/her rights will willingly give them away and say here, 'What need I for it?'. Homosapiens suffer from self-love. I can see a scenario where awareness of a right and a conflicting social pressure/habit co-exist. Homosapiens also love being part of a group. It is difficult being an outsider- when u're born into a culture that denies you some rights whatever they may be and worse these denials are made in the name of Islam, your role is not just defined for you, questioning it can bring on confusion(am I rejecting the faith?), frustration and ultimately submission. It can be overwhelming to go against the social grain. U know, if u can't beat them it is easier to join them.

 

We have to take some collective blame but I would put a heavy emphasis on the leaders and the systems that they create and preside over. Most of these are run by men. Why can't we blame them? Do they not represent us? Take the responsibility of our welfares into their hands? A leader can not bask in the glory of his leadership without accepting reponsibilty for his screw-ups.

[xiinfaniin]

7 Of Nine , Inshaa-Allaah it will be a good and productive discussion. I like your style of debate too. It is mutual, Falxado.

 

Aeronwen , I didn’t mean to piss on your hope. I may be unequal to the task at hand, but I didn’t intend to disappoint you sister. The statements you quoted from my piece sound a bit general (not every secularly educated sister does those things and not every religiously oriented sister does those things either), I concur. But your short comments make me wonder if you are ready to accept partial blame for this. Do you see where we failed or culture is the only villain here? Commo’n, sister do more and don’t leave us in the darkness as what your take on this (that you are partially responsible for this deficit) is.

 

As to the issue of oppression, I reserve my breath for my answer to Sheh.

 

Bishaaro , you’re right they were not at disadvantage, but still elected they were.

[sheherazade]

I reserve my breath for my answer to Sheh

 

^what ever do u mean X? Is this reservation going to be temporary?

[xiinfaniin]

^^It simply means I will address that issue in my answer to you, sister! Take it easy sister. You started good topic and raised interesting questions. I am trying to contribute here in a good way. My opinions are, just that, my opinions. that’s all.

[- Femme -]

Is the alternative any better than the situation they are in now? Most of the times, its a no. So why should they take a risk for an uncertain future? People usually stick to what they know out of habit or because it offers them a sense of security.

[-Serenity-]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^It simply means I will address that issue in my answer to you, sister! Take it easy sister. You started good topic and raised interesting questions. I am trying to contribute here in a good way. My opinions are, just that, my opinions. that’s all.

Xiin, I've never seen you write that many 'sister' in one post. Do you feel cornered? Maxaa ku keeney the women's section ayaad is leedahay miya?

 

I await your input.

[Valenteenah.]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

 

Aeronwen

, I didn’t mean to piss on your hope. I may be unequal to the task at hand, but I didn’t intend to disappoint you sister. The statements you quoted from my piece sound a bit general (not every secularly educated sister does those things and not every religiously oriented sister does those things either), I concur.

But your short comments make me wonder if you are ready to accept partial blame for this. Do you see where we failed or culture is the only villain here? Commo’n, sister do more and don’t leave us in the darkness as what your take on this (that you are partially responsible for this deficit) is.

To be honest, I had no intention of contributing. This topic si wacan baan uga daalay. But your promise of an analysis drew me in, and after you responded, I felt I had to post my disappointment. I already kinda knew what everyone's response would be (I guess I have been here a long time)...but you're new here and I havent seen you posting anything on female issues before.

[Baluug]

Sheherazade ,man,what can I say,you've got a lot on your mind.Too many questions for me.But I'll tell you this much,personally,I believe that women are more important than men in a Muslim society because while men are mostly just outside doing their work,bringing home the bacon,and then coming home to eat dinner and watch TV or go out for coffee(or qaad) with friends,the women,whether they work or not,are the ones that are entrusted with teaching their children the basics of life and watching over them as they mature into adults themselves,and basically moulding them into what they will become.We men are primarily there to provide them with the necessities of life,like food and shelter.I will always thank my mother for the things she did while I could not take care of myself,and I will always insha Allah make sure my wife feels that the work she does is greatly appreciated,because I don't know how I could raise my children without her.

 

As for the status of women in Islam,I feel that women have it quite well,seeing as they don't have to work outside the home(How many men do you know that jump out of bed at 6:00 am,singing and dancing because they just loooooove to work?)While women have the burdens of childbirth,deep sleeps shattered by the sounds of a hungry newborn,and other child-related hardships,they can essentially relax after the children have left the home and started their own lives,really they just have to cook,clean up a little bit,look half-decently good for their man,and that might take 2 hrs or so.Meanwhile,the man is still plugging away at his job for the usual 8(or more) hours,and he's getting older at that time.Not to mention the fact that women have a free week off every month from their salaat and fasting,a little thing called menstruation.

 

So basically,that's my opinion about women in Islam.I know I didn't answer any of your questions,but I don't think anyone except Allah can give you the answer you really need.

[sheherazade]

^ A lot of men think like that. She's doing a good job but it's an easy one. Her role is also limited to the rearing of the children. She can't have any problems while she's at home all day can she? I'm a good man.

 

I'm not saying you're not or that there aren't many good men out there; it just seems we're all myopic in our thinking and therefore in what we feel capable of moulding and changing. BTW, Allah has already given us the answers(can't use that as an excuse), I'm interested in hearing why we're not putting them into practise especially where the social welfare of women is concerned. Can u tell me why you think so?

 

X, I didn't understand your comment entirely. I sincerely await your response. I started this for a reason, brother.

[Haaraahur.]

BTW, Allah has already given us the answers (can't use that as an excuse),

I'm interested in hearing why we're not putting them into practise especially where the social welfare of women is concerned. Can u tell me why you think so?

Yaab! You seem very selective of what you want to hear. Suppose what I think coincides with the answers you labelled as excuses will you still hear me out?

 

It is not in the nature of things that rights are atomically given fairly to everybody being without any demands being made. You said you know the theory and the theory knows you well that is not the case for many Muslim women.

 

I have seen many Muslim who didn’t know what their rights were however knew their obligations. Not many knew that: they couldn’t be divorced whilst pregnant or menstruating or they could demand sexual gratification instead suffering from frustration ( due to his incompetence in this field ) without being shy about hurting his feelings. The rights are many. My point is one has to be claiming their rights in order to receive them.

 

Suppose you know all your rights you can demand them from those who will give you your due. What about those who are indifferent to your rights? Here is where Muslim women have failed they have abandoned the struggle and settled for a less demanding life. They will say maxaan sameeyaa hee, Waan jeclahaye, kama maarmee, sidiisa kale wuu iska fiicanyahay, when asked why they live in a home of injustice! You will find a woman marrying an unemployed man with 2 wives! If she knew that one of the man’s major role is financial maintenance how can she marry him and then complain?

 

In poor countries poverty is one of the reasons why women will tolerate many things. But even in richer countries such as in the west women are still fighting for equal pay for doing the same job as the men! Her worthy has been ridiculed and only her body has been seen useful for her body sells a lot of money.

 

Ignorance and men are the cause of the poor situation of the woman today!

[Rahima]

I can not imagine a scenario where an individual who is aware of his/her rights will willingly give them away and say here, 'What need I for it?'.

Not so much in that sense, but a more subtle approach of betraying their rights and thereby giving them away. I am in agreement that the blame for the subjugation of women in Muslim countries can be laid on many groups, but most of all in my opinion it lies at the feet of the womenfolk themselves. The foremost blame of the state of African Americans lies at their feet, likewise for Africans, Muslims and most others. This is based on the thought that you should never wait for your oppressor to give you a handout of justice, seek it yourself and in the case of Somali (and arguably Muslim) women the oppressors in my opinion are women themselves.

 

Lets take FGM for example, who advocates for it? Who executes it? And who continue to fight for it? Women, Women, Women. Just the other day a friend of mine was involved in a discussion with some other young women (all under the age of 25 mind you). FGM came up and surprisingly of all the girls present, the pro-camp constituted of those who were most educated and supposedly meant to have the best understanding of Islam. Naturally when questioned why they would support such backward and not to mention xaraam acts of injustice, the reply was the same regurgitated by every women over the age of 40, yaa guursanayo gabar ….leh (quoting word for word). This is just one issue. Similarly in the cases of domestic violence have you noticed how most of those advising the battered wife to return to her abusive husband are women? Ceeb weeye they say. But it goes on with the usage of degrading Somali maah maahyo, wixii xunba xawaa leh comes to mind. Women instead of fighting against it use it themselves-I’ve seen it countless times. Gabar ayaa tahay-another lovely term, it would be fine if it wasn’t accompanied by half of the nonsense it usually is. Basically the list goes on and on.

 

Men whilst on the top of most of the institutions of power are the least of the problems. We need to clean up our act first and eliminate that culture amongst us women which is destroying our God-given rights. No need to worry about outside forces when the enemy is within. Especially within the Somali community, women are their own worst enemies and really they degrade their collective worth.

[xiinfaniin]

Sheh,

 

Sorry for this much-delayed response. Other commitments have taken my time.

 

Your protest is without merit. Although I acknowledged and affirmed the validity of most of your questions, I am not in any way buying your sleep-walk on this issue. You are not raising the bar for this discussion when you dwell in trivialities. Oppression smells subjugation, walaashiis. As I said before I don’t believe women are oppressed in the society I came from. Neither do I think Muslim woman is oppressed at all. There are extreme cases every where (abusive relationships, monetary inequities, and other indifferences). As we all recognize the realities of Muslim people in general and Muslim women in particular do not reflect the values they claim. Why was the question you asked? But to suggest that there is a widespread oppression requires substantiation, and not a mere claim. To ask me to prove otherwise is a weak armor.

 

You see, Sheh you may be painting with a bad brush. I grew up in Xamar; a relatively large urban center. In those days when I was coming up, women participated in every field. Though I came from a conservative family with a strong religious tilt, the majority of those in my family who managed to become college graduate are/were women. Even my aunt managed to become judge. My modest traditional family produced medical doctors, engineers, and a judge (most of them women). Though I don’t believe that the success of women lies in secular education only, this shows opportunity was there. And it still is. It is not secret that most merchants now in Somalia are women. It may be the case that you had a totally different experience than mine. But that is your own experience and does not necessarily mean it is true with most cases. So spare us when crowding your canvas, good Sheh.

 

I think Rahima is on to something here: the great battle waiting for Muslim women should not be bridging the gender gap rather their clausal fight should be dismantling misperceptions and deepening correct teachings of this faith.

 

 

War Falxadooy waxay Raqlahu?

I did not have the time. But yours is worthy the research it requires and I will deliver (IA).