Female Circumcision Vs Abortion

[sheherazade]

AU, my feelings are not in question here. Keep to the topic. Take yr own advice and deal with the problem at hand. I have. U have not. How about u tell us why u think this is the option we should take? Or what else could be done?

 

What does Waris have to do with this exactly? U keep dragging in well-known Somalis into posts! Do YOU have an opinion that u can support or do u prefer not debating in case u fail at yr attempt?

[Alle-ubaahne]

^A deligent look at your name enabled me to see the Moderator sign, and for that alone is a wise reason to back off before you throw my shoes up! I am out now, sister.

 

 

Ramadan Kariim

[sheherazade]

I have never nor will ever delete people's opinions just because I disagree with them.

 

I think u threw yr own shoes off in yr attempt to flee. That was such an uncool move, makes u look yellow. Albaabka qab ka sii sii. Ramadan Mubarak.

[NGONGE]

^^^ Couldn’t you make an exception? You can pretend that you were trying to familiarise yourself with the various commands.

 

PS

Hoyo gave me Sarreen for soxoor. I told her it plays havoc with my system but she would not listen

[Nur]

Sheherezad sis

 

For illustration purpose only, consider yourself once as the Somali Community activist for Social affairs in UK, You get an alarming report that in a UK City, Somali teens have the highest teen pregnancy of all immigrant groups. You analyze the reason, here you come up with the following:

 

1. Parents are not raising the kids well

2. Public School system a negative influence

3. Streets and neighborhood are very bad influence

4. Poverty, kids would do anything to buy what they like.

 

and so on

 

Now, stats show that every year the number of these teen Pregnancies is on the increase, more girls are having abortions and scars for life.

 

The Problems;

 

Somali Teens Pregnancies

 

The Risk:

 

Health, Emotional Scars For ever, Social instability

 

The Impact: Drop out of School, Loss of self respect, prostitution, drugs and death

 

Positive part: they have their unsatiable sexual desires in tact,

 

 

The options:

 

Sex Education: Not effective, been taught, but no results

Abstinance: Impossible in light of temptations

Send e-Nuri and Wadaads to tghe task, Not enough time

Lock them up: Not allowed.

Beat them: Not allowed

 

So, you stumble on a weird idea, Gudid , you weigh against impact above,

 

Cricumsicion Risk

 

Loss of part or whole of an organ

 

Possible Impact: Loss of all or some sexual sentiment.

 

Good side: kids grow up and complete education, get married and become mothers.

 

 

Now, as an activist armed with these facts, if you have to choose one of the two options, which of these bad options would you choose and why?

 

Note: Shahre Zaad

 

This is the month of Ramadan, the month of fuel for faith and soul, so your name takes on a new meaning Shar and Zaad, the month of Fuel, by the way sis, I never thought you have nothing but a noble intentions.

 

 

Nur

[Kruella]

Isn’t it interesting how people are always trying to control women’s private parts? So The root of all evil is the woman's private parts? Cut it, dice it, and slice it and all will be well. Yet men run amok, free to stick their 007 anywhere they wish. Why is it so hard to have a holistic approach on such social issues? If a girl gets pregnant, there are multidimensional reasons to explain her situation. Unruly teens, unstable parental environment, non existent role models, low self esteem etc… HOW DARE YOU REDUCE IT TO A CLITORIS? I have never been more appalled in my life. Subxanallah May Allah protect us.

 

salamz

[Baluug]

Originally posted by Nur:

1. Parents are not raising the kids well

 

That's the parents' fault,they should know better,seeing as they are the ones charged with raising them up to be good Muslims

 

2. Public School system a negative influence

 

Enroll them in private Islamic schools,they're not that expensive that Somali parents can't afford it,and in the case if they really can't afford it,the parents need to let the children know they are not like the rest of the kufaars in school,so they should not copy them.

 

3. Streets and neighborhood are very bad influence

 

The streets and neighbourhood are a bad influence in Somalia as well,but everyone is trying to leave Somalia,so why aren't they trying to find a place where the environment is not a bad influence?I mean if the streets are raising your children in the first place,then why not stay in Somalia?At least they're in a somewhat Islamic environment.Children are in just as much danger of falling into gangs and other types of xumaan if they live in a different country,if parents aren't taking the necessary precautions with their children.

 

4. Poverty, kids would do anything to buy what they like.

 

Once again,the parents are responsible.They need to teach their children that money is not everything.Allah SWT will insha Allah provide for us,and that's what these kids need to learn.

[/QB]

 

Brother Nur,I can understand that you mean we need to take drastic measures to ensure the safety of our children,but circumcision is not the answer.There are millions of non-circumcised Muslim and kufaar girls that manage to maintain their virginity and dignity,and why is that?Because their parents are taking the responsibilities that Allah SWT has held them accountable for.The answer with wayward children does not lie with the children themselves,but the parents who have neglected their duties as protectors and guardians of heir children.There are many reasons for why they have done so,which I will not get into,but my main point is that your intentions may be noble,but I feel they are misdirected.

[Rahima]

I dont know walaalo, I need ideas from readers, and then we will open an e-Nuri no hussle quick stop Gudid clinic for troubled teens, will use latest technology? ( By the way, I have e gynocologist friend of mine , very devout, he has seen unspeakable cases of teens mutilating themselves with jewelery, how come no one is up in arms to stop that?.

You want to know my take on this, it is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting Nur. I’m actually surprised and extremely taken aback by such a suggestion.

 

No I mean as in you don’t think that FGM will stop promiscuity do you?

 

 

No, walaalo, I dont think,

Ok so how is it then do you think it will make this problem disappear or cease it to be so widespread? I mean if it’s not achieving the alleviation of the problem then what is the point of chopping up people (females really, since we all know chopping a penis is not something you or any other man would actually call for but it’s added just to avoid labels of sexism).

 

If a young teenage girl happens to fall into zina and falls pregnant, then ultimately it is sin (a major one) no doubt, but there is hope for her to repent for Allah is ‘qafuur ar-raxiim’ right? As for perpetual sinners then the problem lies with their parents, and lets not blame just society. Many of us grew up in the west exposed to all the sins and we have not brought home children out of wedlock now have we? And not all of have been mutilated like you are calling for.

 

Walaahi I’m sickened by this, absolutely sickened.

 

I’m very confident that you are misunderstanding the concept of the lesser evil. I was under the impression that lesser evil choice comes into play when there is no other choice, but here you have a whole array of choices, so how do you then explain this? Inshallah Sh Umal will be here with as just after Ciid, this is definitely something I plan to ask. I can’t imagine that Allah’s religion would allow for this- if it is not religiously based Nur and just your opinion then please don’t make it sound like it is diin (the lesser evil concept is Islamic no?).

 

And I have not smiled once Nur, I’m absolutely disgusted. I realize I keep saying that, but really I have no other way to describe what I am feeling about this-words fails me.

 

^^ Shiiq nuuroow, chopping the penis for avoiding the teenage girls to concieve pregnancy makes me laugh, but I understand your intent which is to appease Ms. Sheherazade. I agree brother its better to send these girls to Kuntuwaareey instead of living with the indignity of ceeb iyo fadeexad, oo ay kuu dheer tahay carro ilaaheey.

 

the sisters should be angry at the young ladies who bring about the demise of our social reputations by illicitly using their reproductive organs.

Yes, evil eve ay :rolleyes: .

 

Who brings shame to our social reputations Alle-ubahaane, the girls or the boys?

 

Honestly that is disgustingly sexist.

 

The whole world knows that promiscuity is more rampant amongst wiilasha then it is amongst gabdhaha, so save the BS walaal. This frustrates me more then anything for both you and Nur are meant to be educated God-conscious Muslim men, but in this thread to say you have both fallen short of the mark would be an understatement.

 

 

And Nur, see how your chopping of the penis comment is perceived. We all know it is appeasement.

[Baashi]

This is a not-so-helpful e-Nuri post.

 

I totally disagree with Nur's gudid suggestion. Gudniin is a cruel and backward phraonic practice. It's hardly a solution to any problem.

[sheherazade]

Nur, in all seriousness, with yr imagination and knowledge are u claiming there is no other choice but circumcision?

 

I can not entertain the idea of mutilation in order to curb sexual indiscretion or potential abortion. I wholeheartedly reject it. There is no choice here, I repeat. Two wrongs is what I see. That is not Islam.

 

There are many other social ills, shall we come up with so-called lesser evil solutions for all of them? What will become of justice and fairness? That is not Islam.

 

Perhaps there are others that agree with your line of thinking, let's hear what they have to say. One has already withdrawn.

 

There is nothing anyone, anywhere can say to convince me this is a viable, fair, humanistic way of dealing with a potential problem(abortion) or that it is Islamic. Nothing.

 

Xaawaa ba'day.

[Foxy]

Walee waa Yaab,

 

Such above topic wax madaxa laga qabsadow buu istaahilaa, to see for at this time what sort of crowd it attracts,

Its utterly discusting and one sided view for one to even discuss such topic in complete openness as it replies are relentess.....whether one is religious or not we all know that....FGM is a social custom, not a religious prof choice, it is the usual practice, shame on them..........damn on them for those who endorse such activities or even condone such actions.....

 

 

cheers

 

PS they should be hanged

[- Femme -]

Neither option works.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Rahima,

This frustrates me more then anything for both you and Nur are meant to be educated God-conscious Muslim men, but in this thread to say you have both fallen short of the mark would be an understatement.

I didn't mean to advocate, sister, for the continuetion of FGM in our society, but all I agreed with brother Nur is sending devient kids back to our country. And if you thought I wrongly sided with the brother, I guess to reclaim my rank at you, I now uncalled for my remarks.

[Pacifist]

I will not say it because all my other sisters above have already said it . Brother Nur I just wish some how some way you could just for once experience being a woman and then you would know but ofcouse its only a wish. Like my sister Sher already said we are not in Jahiliyah period when they used practice castration. Ofcourse there is a reason they called it Jahiliyah.

 

For all the people who are saying that when one goes bad they should send her back to Kuntunwareey. I suppose they will have a guard guarding them all day or just locking them up? Look here no matter what you can not change someone until they change for their selves. You can not guard a girl. And the girl is not the only one who got pregnant by herself. :confused:

 

You may not but I sure as heck can. I can feel my suxur up in my throat. La illaha illalah. With that kind of nonchalent attitude towards something as horrific and disgusting as Gudniin, I will pray extra hard that people with that kind of mentality will never be in a position to decide a woman's fate or have any sort of control over her. Ya Allah. I shudder to think how many people have those kind of xaasidnimo backward thinking.

I agree 1000%

 

:mad:

[J.Lee]

" Nur, my friends 14 year old daughter is pregnant, this Jamaican teen is worthless, a drop out, now what should I do Nur? does Islam permit abortion"?

 

Somali parents can reduce, if not stop, the sudden increase of abortion- a trend I’ve noticed lately in my own city- involving Somali girls if they come to understand- and recognize widely - that not all first-time brides go to their husbands a virgin. They also need to understand that there are more effective teachers out there in the “big bad world†if they don’t fill that that role of an informer.

 

Apparently, a role they believe need not be filled, for sex education is still an element which is sadly lacking in our culture. When, if ever, have you seen a parent discussing with their children the importance of abstinence, if not protection?

 

Personally, I have never, for most parents would like to hold the belief, place confidence that is, that their children are chaste, innocent, and pure beings. A confidence, in my opinion, that is misplaced since the said children are usually living in highly sexually driven cultures.

 

After all, it was during adolescence when we were thought by our unholy teachers, television, and its twin sister society, how to reap the benefits, such as material wealth/favors by using our sexuality as a bargaining chip, or how to imitate, and produce the contradictory Madonna- Whore image/complex; innocent, yet experienced, Sexual yet naïve, Passionate yet unaware.

 

An image, regardless of what terms you use, that is very solid, and implanted in minds of young girls with the core message that women are a sexual contradiction. Furthermore, this is the image being implemented, despicable as it is, that a little girls sees daily outside the house while by her family, she is thought that her sexual being is and should be nonexistent. Surprisingly, it will be, if fortunate, awhile until she meets a male who brings it into existence.

 

However, it’s up to the parent to educate their daughters (and though I’ve not mentioned before, their sons as well) so that the person who does awaken it is his/her spouse.

 

But if the off-spring has taken upon them selves to educate their selves with a willing partner, all manners of carnal pleasures; then the parents should be able to deal with it. Don’t condone it, but don’t condemn them either.

 

As for the choice between abortion, and mutilation, neither should ever be an option.