Female Circumcision Vs Abortion

[Kashafa]

Aerowyn(the authentic Welsh spelling, mind you, yours is anglicised),

 

The homies can handle me. How will they ever learn how to stand up for themselves if Mother Hen is always rushing to shoo away the King Rooster.

 

 

P.S. I didn't see you talking about 'negatively-charged electrons' when an esteemed Nomad called another equally esteemed Nomad a 'flaming racist bigot'( a very eloquent insult !!). but hey, don't sweat the small stuff. Keep it moving. Just ease off the partisanship. Enjoy your Afur(not dinner, but a full-fledged Afur)

[Faarax-Brawn]

and created a life that he will not raise nor take care of. What to do ?

Kill him? :confused:

[Kashafa]

Brown, Brown, Brown... You da one main man I was relying on to back me up. You pulled a fast 180 on me, Akh lol Fo real tho, What other option is there ? B4 we get into that, I hope you do agree that it is a crime ? not necessarily because they're doin' the deed(that's between them and Almighty God) but because of the ramifications and consequences of their choice. Feel me ? Now, again it's upto the girl and family to decide what course of action to pursue, but if they want this dude dead, and have the means and logistics to do so, who are we to say: It's cold-blooded murder.

 

You may argue that's not how we do business in the West( there's law and order and courts and what not), but you gotta accept the proven effectiveness of 'natural justice' in individual cases. Have you read Grisham's "A Time to Kill" ?, the very first novel that got me hooked on him. Pain-stakingly realistic and partially based on real-life events. Premise: 11 year old black girl is raped by two white man. What to do, Brown ? Let the courts handle it ? accept it as 'fate' and bury it inside you. ? the Father does what any human with an inch of decency would at least attempt do, get the monsters who destroyed the innocence of his precious ones. And oh, does he get'em. :cool: This is not a Don Quixote-like fantasy, but a hard cold read.

 

To those who have a hard time accepting my suggestion because of their aversion to violence: I'm NOT advocating a world of freewheeling Mooriyanism , but am acknowledging the fact that extreme circumstances call for extreme measures, All options should be on the table. A quick Istishaarah followed by Salaatul Istikhaarah, and ur ready to roll, with whatever decision you reach.

 

Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft. - Teddy Roosvelt.

[Valenteenah.]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

Aerowyn(the authentic Welsh spelling, mind you, yours is anglicised),

 

The homies can handle me. How will they ever learn how to stand up for themselves if Mother Hen is always rushing to shoo away the King Rooster.

 

 

P.S. I didn't see you talking about 'negatively-charged electrons' when an esteemed Nomad called another equally esteemed Nomad a 'flaming racist bigot'( a very eloquent insult !!). but hey, don't sweat the small stuff. Keep it moving. Just ease off the partisanship. Enjoy your Afur(not dinner, but a full-fledged Afur)

Dear Kash,

 

You're rather likeable, I must say. Even at your most belligerent. If I recall correctly, you gave back as good as you got. But you already know that (not one to suffer fools gladly, are you?)! I also hope I am not as partisan as you seem to think. I like to believe that I would back you up as well, if I supported your position (hasn't happened yet, but still...)

 

My comments were directed more at your 'solution' than any slagging match you had with others. Don't get me wrong, I think your view is more chivalrous than the average faarax's (most would rather just insult and curse the girl before calling for her death for the dishonour to her family without giving a thought to the guy responsible), but why must the punishment be so excessive? Surely, the punishment should suit the crime? I can't help wondering if you were perhaps an LAPD Officer in a former life?

 

I'm also concerned about why the poor example must be a Jamaican? I hardly think that many Somali girls are impregnated by Jamaicans, especially when there are more than enough being impregnated by Somali morons who invariably never fail to slither off and disappear like the cowardly snakes they are!

 

Maybe we should look into cleaning our own sewers before we start killing off other races? Just a thought.

 

 

Have a nice dinner as well. :cool:

[Pucca]

the person who ignores the teachings of Islam regarding the prohibition of approaching Zina, not alone committing it, you should deal him wisely and kindly. Keep a good relation with him. Set a good example for him in morality, tolerance, loyalty, etc. Make Du`aa' on his behalf that Allah may guide him to the light of Islam.

we need not take allah's job into our own hands and judge/punish those that have sinned...kashafa, righting a wrong with an equally wrong act is not 'helping' the situation. And since you (or anyone else for that matter) can't carry out the islamic rulings in a non-islamic state....its best if you leave it to Allah to deal with it and do right by the girl and the unborn child.

 

As for those practically cheering for FGM, may the good Lord be with you and guide your seriously misguided hearts. Abortion is WRONG and so is FGM.

 

The Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him) of Islam made Paradise the recompense of every father who conducts himself well with his daughters, has patience in raising them, provides their moral education, and observes Allah's commands concerning them until they come of age

still think cutting up your little girl is the 'right' thing?

 

 

peace and god bless

[Alle-ubaahne]

Rahima,

So Alle-ubaahane, let me give you the benefit of the doubt here. Please explain that disgusting paragraph above.

 

Are you calling for FGM? And more importantly how is it part of our religion?

 

That said, if you are calling for it (which you seemingly are suggesting thus far), dare I say it you are the one who is in dire need of all that you suggest to the ‘activists’.

 

These days Alle-ubaahane, you dissapoint many of us. Your views seem incredibly backward and inslamic.

Eedo, meesha inaad soo gasho maba aheyn, laakiin hadaad soo gashay, ogow xushmad eedonimo darteed inaan goobta uga baxay, balse ogow cunugaad eedada u tahay inuu hiil iyo hoo kaaga baahan yahay. Shaah cab eedo, oo xaal qaado, qasadkeygu ma aheyn inaan eedo iyo xulafadeeda ka xanaajiyo!

 

Alle-ubaahne has retreated with the heavy casualties he recieved from the battle of Moderates and my Seeflabood group who act when Islam is under attack........

[Viking]

Originally posted by Aeronwen:

Why should either be confined only to foreigners? And where does the West come into it?

Aeronwen,

I'll not adress the other issues sis because we seem to be in agreement. Where has the west come in you ask? Well, firstly, you and I live in the west and we take what we think is good from them and hopefully abstain from what is Islamically deplorable to immitate. Western parents have (or seem to have) a close relationship with their children. There is quite a lot of communication between the parents and the children and we stand to learn a bit from them. In African societies, it actually takes a "village" to raise a child. Alas, we find ourselves in a hamlet not peculiar to us, where a nuclear family is the norm, this leaves us constantly fighting to find ways to get by. As the saying goes...The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt his environmentto himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. The first generation always sticks to what they were are familiar with and seldom takes on new ideas. This is common among people who move from their native lands. It takes a lot of time and effort to bring about a complete paradigm shift, plus, this generally takes a couple of generations.

[sheherazade]

Kashafa, u talk of a lack of an Islamic state in order to justify murder as a solution to this problem. Well, then why not justify abortion too for that self-same reason? Making your own rules and acting upon them is vigilantism and if they conflict with the teachings of Islam(the solution to this problem has been explicity defined and is different to yours) may the Lord save your soul. Where's the dignity and honour in encouraging and promoting something unIslamic while u hint at others' faithlessness?

 

Contradictions galore. Your delivery is good, shame about the material.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Taking proper course of action against a gaal who is found in the act of contaminating our gabdho should be carried by anyone seeking ajar iyo xasanaad. Because, if you see in the actual story that prompted the evacuation of the Yahuud from Medina, the messengers' city, (pbuh), you find that it was gabar muslimad that they embarrassed in the market, when she came to one tumaal for shopping and he ordered ciyaal suuqiin around the area to knot up her (Goono) and (safaleetiga madaxa) out of her awareness, for making her (cawro) display in the market. A very courageous Muslim with (seef) come in to the aid of that victimized muslimah, and swiftly decapitated the one Yahuudi responsible for the (ceebtii gabadha) and then the courageous muslim man was killed in the spot by Yahuudii. The prophet received the story and how things had happen in the market, and he ordered the complete evacuation plan of the yahuud out of Medina.

 

What does that story tell us about the seriousness of bothering gabar muslimad ah? I am asking this question to my fellow nomads who think its Ok to impregnate gabar muslimad ah with filty impurity and then fear no consequences. Look guys, we're who we're when it comes to defending the dignity of our people, and never can anyone save a dignity with mere words. Someone among us should use the bones of that jamaican as toothpicks, and drink his maraq, then, for hargabka or is qarasbixin!

 

Its extra Ajar to do that for increasing xasanaad and protecting the dignity of our gabdheheena. That fatwa is clear now for all the nomads, and my xisbul-mu'miniin.

[Kashafa]

@Someone among us should use the bones of that jamaican as toothpicks, and drink his maraq, then, for hargabka or is qarasbixin

 

^^ Hear, Hear !!

[Alle-ubaahne]

^Yes, Kashafa. I understand your interest in taking part of the jamaican bones for toothpick festival! Waa shaash...., soon we'll see some hot maraq on the table!

 

[Kashafa]

Aeronwen,

 

I went to great lengths to point out that I wasn't incriminating Bob Marley Jr because of his 'Jamaicanhood', but because of his actions. The same fate should await anyone who does what he did. As for your excessive punishment clause, it did make me think, but unfortunately, there is no other mechanism to deal with a situation like this. At all. The courts are ineffective(child support ? this is wayyyyy bigger than $$$), society views it as a normal occurence, and his buddies are congratulating him on gettin' some of dat. The cycle has got to be stopped dead in it's tracks. The message has got to be sent out that no longer will our womenfolk be an easy target; there will be fatal consquences for the wrong move. I'm not saying this 'solution' is a one-fix wonder, there probably still will be some(hopefully few) teenage pregnacies and abortions and domestic violence, but it will greatly help in restoring order and inculcating honour and self-worth in our communities.

 

Pucca,

 

Who said anything about judging/punishing ? This is just a real-life manifestation of Newton's 3rd Law(it's a little skewed, to be accurate !) but as I said earlier, their Zina is between them and Allah(SWT). The Pregnancy, The potential Abortion, the family break-up, the threats, the possiblity of said pregnant teen running away to God-knows-where encountering street life at it's worst= That's when we(society) join the equation. It directly affects us from all angles and we have an collective responsiblity as muslims to do something about it. Btw, we're not dealing with a what-if scenario, but an actual case that triggered this discussion and which my argument is based on. Allah(SWT) will do right by us when we do right by ourselves, i.e, getting pro-active about our social ills and not wishing it away.

 

Sheh,

 

Please point out the explicity defined solution to this problem. We have a specific case on our hands so make sure you have the right frame of reference.

 

I'm not advocating vigilantism in the Wild Wild West sense. vigilantism=lawlessness=fitnah and fasaad= innocents suffer. What I'm advocating is (how do I word this, it still sounds like vigilantism !) umm analysing situations like this on a case-by-case basis, where then, the family(or a neigborhood council) would reach a conclusive decision on what to do. One option that should be on the table is capital punishment, i.e the whole D-E-F thing. It sounds weird, I know. But trust me, it's doable. I don't want to even get started with the number of homicides that go unsolved each year. So logistics isn't an issue( the kinks can be ironed out), it's the morality of the whole venture some of you still have doubts on. But don't worry, those hardest to convince make the strongest believers.

[Alle-ubaahne]

Alot of is-qancis are going on here, but the buttom line will finaly make one group smile!

[sheherazade]

Kashafa, WOL has already pointed out to you what the punishment if proven would be. The rest u have made up; it is vigilantism(rounding up the neighbours for retribution) and murder. If u think u will enter paradise for that, go ahead, enjoy the thrill of the chase and bon appetite. Do let us know what human flesh tastes like. Jamaican in particular.

 

This is distracting from the topic which has probably run its course too.

[NGONGE]

^^^ Did you hear about the riots in Birmingham?

There was a rumour that a Pakistani hairdresser raped a 14-year-old girl. The Jamaican community was up in arms and the rumour spread like forest fire. So far, one man is dead. A policeman was shot, businesses were torched and hundreds of people were injured. Nobody knows where the phantom rape victim is (the accused denies any wrong doing).

 

A sad story all round (especially if the rape were real). Nonetheless, that story brought a smile to my face as I was reading my morning paper on the train this morning. Retribution is a funny word.