Female Circumcision Vs Abortion

[Nur]

Wetstern Somali Geel Jirto

 

When a system is balanced, all pieces fall in place, when that system goes awry, a single part casues an avalanche of mishaps that trigger a non ending road to misery.

 

Islam, ( surrender to Allah willingly) has brought a complete system for humanity, each time humans tampered with that system, a mishap took place.

 

One of the most error prone subsystems in human experience in life is the sexuality, a proper guidance of this system leads to fewer problems, a joy ride leads to disasters, and as Somalis, for centuries we solved our problems in light of our Cag bakayle culture, in which islam was not an intergral part of our life, just a marginal player.

 

As a complete system, Islam first demarcated roles for the sexes, laid down the mission of being on earth as the sole purpose of worship of Allah, women being the complementary counterparts for men ( Saaxibatuhu, Companion, not sex slave), faith as the intsrument of controlling carnal desires not surgery, once morality is in place, no intrusion to the private life of any sex is required, after all, Allah is the best protector ( Wa Allahu kheiru haafidan)

 

But what happens when the system brakes down?

 

The devine system is no longer in effect almost anywhere on the globe as designed by the maker as it was designed to protect human weakness, and presto, anatomy kicks in full gear.

 

" Nur, my friends 14 year old daughter is pregnant, this Jamaican teen is worthless, a drop out, now what should I do Nur? does Islam permit abortion"? an actual phone call.

 

Are you going to kill the unborn for the crime of your daughter? what a justice,(In Christiany we have a God who kills his only son so he can forgive sinners, here we have somoene who wants to kill an innocent unborn for the crime of her deviant teen girl), and if you are not capable instilling Islamic values in your daughter, wouldnt it be better to send heroff to kurtunwaarrey (ood ku soo gudid) to reduce her appetite? after all, both choices are bad and unIslamic, but, the lesser evil is (in la gudo)? OK, I am not suggesting this as a practice, but a its a better choice than coat hangers, or loss of faith and a teen running to the streets after an abortion to become " Cheap n Clean" street worker. How many other kids have we lost to haggling over how to best face this issue, while kids are fighting hormones ( I think they get it from Kentucky Fried Chicken growth hormones) in an omnipresense of sexual advertisments all over the place?

 

From ancients such as the Pharoahs of Egypt, female circumsition was seen as a way of controlling female sexual drives, the europeans used to have chastity belts, the assumption was by taking away part of her sensuality, she would easily fend off advances of men, men were not seen as the culprits, just women. However, when it comes the trade offs, one must seriously consider the unthinkable ( at least for foreign raised geel Jirto) that (Gudidda), at times may be preferable to serious aftermaths such as a runaway kid and abortion, just see your own mom, she is likely (waa la guday) and she brought you up the way you are, thats is the worse case and i do not condone the practice when we have a working system, unfortunately, we dont, thus the need to prioritize options, to select the best of the worst of two choices.

 

 

Nur

[Rahima]

You cannot be serious Nur.

[Nur]

Rahima sis

 

Unless it hits close to home, you will not think about the unthinkable, its all about choices, and they are not always pleasant.

 

Nur

[Rahima]

No I mean as in you don’t think that FGM will stop promiscuity do you?

 

And um, assuming that we play fiddle to your claim here, how can you determine what a girl will become?

 

So you are basically calling for the mutilating of a poor innocent child in the event that she sins in the future?

 

Please and with all due respect, explain to me how that works.

 

Confusion is an understatement.

[Nur]

Rahima sis

 

You write:

 

No I mean as in you don’t think that FGM will stop promiscuity do you?

 

 

No, walaalo, I dont think, I hope you are connecting all the assumptions into your question, the only solution is an islamic system in place, but when that system is absent, and parents are facing a potentially self destructing teen in an environment that is encourageing promiscuity 24/7, when parents are not footing responsibility, then and only then does it come to choices, just like how we cut limbs so desease does not eat away on healthy tissues, again, its not a solution, just salvaging what is left, picking up the pieces if you will.

 

You write:

 

And um, assuming that we play fiddle to your claim here, how can you determine what a girl will become?

 

It is easy, you can tell it when her actions show that no moral barrier exists between her and potential satanic steps, I am sure you would recognize trouble signals, I bet you were right 10/10 times

 

You write:

 

So you are basically calling for the mutilating of a poor innocent child in the event that she sins in the future?

 

 

No, walaal, not the innocent girls, i mean the deviant teen only, you have to fix them like cats if they use their private organs for thinking instead of their heads, instead of draging a costlier problems home.

 

You write:

 

 

Please and with all due respect, explain to me how that works.

 

Confusion is an understatement.

 

 

Rahima you made me Smile big wallahi

 

 

I dont know walaalo, I need ideas from readers, and then we will open an e-Nuri no hussle quick stop Gudid clinic for troubled teens, will use latest technology? ( By the way, I have e gynocologist friend of mine , very devout, he has seen unspeakable cases of teens mutilating themselves with jewelery, how come no one is up in arms to stop that?.

 

 

Nur

[sheherazade]

Originally posted by Nur:

 

No, walaal, not the innocent girls, the deviant teen only, you have to fix them like cats if they use their private organs for thinking instead of their heads, to drag far costlier problems home.

 

Nur

Frankly, truly and honestly with no mincing of words, I am utterly disgusted by your post.

 

men were not seen as the culprits, just women.

They still are by your account. There is NO choice here as u claim. Are u advocating dragging a sexually active teenager kicking and screaming to be mutilated? And the boy with him she had relations? What happens to him?

 

Penis intact. Right. Fair.

 

This is NOT how Islam would solve the problem.

 

U're depending on the ways of the jahiliya to solve this social problem.

 

I'm aghast.

[Nur]

Shehersad sis

 

Never hush up an idea, open disussions and respect of others point of view is conducive to finding a solution, I dont have a solution, just an idea that could prove to be either right or wrong, taken all assumptions to account, and I hold nothing holly other than the word of Allah.

 

Now, disliking something is not a reason for it to be wrong, here I have clearly presented the background of the problem like a building, consider the background, the requirement and the problem we are facing, do not just dismiss an idea just because it is conventiomnal wisdom, check its merits, weigh the assumptions, look at the impoact of the case of " As is " and the case after the solution is applied, which one has the worst impact? the best impact?

 

Again, I said that in the science of Muwaazanaat in Islam, at time a xaraam becomes a xalaal, if two xaraams are a must to be faced, in our situation we have two grievous situations, please provide a solution that works and I will take my word back with highest respect, the teen boys dont get pregnant, the girl does, then she does abortion, but still, that does not mean we cant think of a way to limit boys activity, I am sure that we can find a solution that is opposite effect to Viagra, to make them monks, and if you insist, I am also for chopping of penises if it can save abortion as a lesser evil.

 

Nur

[Alle-ubaahne]

^^ Shiiq nuuroow, chopping the penis for avoiding the teenage girls to concieve pregnancy makes me laugh, but I understand your intent which is to appease Ms. Sheherazade. I agree brother its better to send these girls to Kuntuwaareey instead of living with the indignity of ceeb iyo fadeexad, oo ay kuu dheer tahay carro ilaaheey.

 

the sisters should be angry at the young ladies who bring about the demise of our social reputations by illicitly using their reproductive organs.

[NGONGE]

Surely before cutting off pieces of their bodies, we can use other easier alternatives. We should lock them up at home and never ever let them out until the day they get married. That way, they’ll stay out of harm’s way and stay chaste and virgin.

 

It’s this education and exposure to the outside world that makes them deviate. It’s best that we also deprive them of that dreadful education (sex education at school, you say?). What does a (future) mother need with reading and writing anyway?

 

Better still, we should operate a full lobotomy on all young girls. The bottom parts of the body might have nerve ends that heighten the pleasure and sensuality. However, it’s the top parts that harbour the thoughts, encourage the acts and sharpen the fantasies. A full lobotomy will turn these girls into blathering simpletons and as we all know, simpletons are free of sin. Yes, I’ve thought long and hard about this and believe a lobotomy is the best course of action for these deviant girls.

 

As the woman who once tried to seduce a prophet once said, “the human self is inclined to evilâ€! Note that it was not the private parts that were inclined to evil (and it never is the private parts). Old and impotent eighty-year-old men do not fall over themselves rushing to buy Viagra because their private parts ‘urged’ them to do so! They do so because their minds still remember and want more.

 

Still, let us assume that Female Mutilation is the lesser of the two evils. Let us assume that by doing this, the women will be less inclined to sin (in Zina terms) and that they’ll be able to fend off all the men. This will, as it always was, become the norm. Have a baby girl? Chop her bits off. It’s better than leaving her to sleep around and face the prospect of abortion. It’s all relative!

 

If I can chop her bits off for her own good, why can’t I force her to marry a good man of my choice (for her own good)? Why can’t I beat her up mercilessly (for her own good)? Why can’t I look down on her (for her own good)?

 

It’s all about preserving a good society and chopping off the undesirable elements and practises. We’re pro-lifers to the day we die and we shall do all we can to preserve life, even if it meant that we (honour) kill the devious girls that might get pregnant later and consider abortion!

 

To tell the truth, girls are nothing but hassle. We’ll probably be better off if we just dug a hole and buried them in it the day they were born.

 

 

PS

I could not help it.

[sheherazade]

I'm not hushing you Nur, in fact do keep talking. U hint at disrespect from me. Where?

 

What you are suggesting is wrong AND unlikeable. I would not chop off a teenage boy's penis either. What kind of societies would we have if we maimed each other? The current one is doing quite a good job at that.

 

You have come up with a suggestion that is NOT new. This is how FGM is sold to people already.

 

Now, the lesser of the two evils scenario: this can only be applied once u are faced with a situation. U can not use it as preemptive method.

 

At what stage do u decide to make that so called choice? Young girls will not necessarily flaunt their promiscuity or their sexual liaisons. Tell me how do we work out who's up to what(the near impossible witnesses required)? Await confessions? And what would Islam say then? How would it deal with the problem?

 

It seems this is targetted at potential pregnancies and their terminations. Let's assume a girl gets pregnant; isn't it too late already? Deed done. Or do we chop her up, sew her up for the future?

 

I personally do not have a Sheh-solution. I know what Islam recommends we teach our children and adults about reigning in their hormones. U do too. So why a need for a personal solution? We are not monks, nor should we seek to be. We are sexual beings, we must deal with it as we were taught by our deen. Promiscuity, abortion, neither is something new. Yr solution(although u later call it an idea) speaks of choice between two evils, I see it as an evil used to fix a potential evil. That just won't do, not if Islam is a just deen.

 

I'm aghast beacuse u too are suggesting this old measure. Consider myself unsurprised here on in.

 

Do go on

[sheherazade]

AU, I do not seek to be appeased. I'm not convinced by this post, chopping penises off won't make it any better. Worse. The fundamentals of the idea itself are flawed. U say:

 

the young ladies who bring about the demise of our social reputations by illicitly using their reproductive organs.

 

Aha, thought so. Social reputation at alleged stake. Nailed it on the head. Not.

 

Ngonge, .

[Alle-ubaahne]

Professor NGONGE's views on social issues are always closer to insanity than to solving anything. His take on this issue, I guess, reveals some signs of recovery from the previous intense stages of his bout. Now, let the wise direct and correct the gentleman!

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by sheherazade:

AU, I do not seek to be appeased. I'm not convinced by this post, chopping penises off won't make it any better. Worse. The fundamentals of the idea itself are flawed. U say:

 

the young ladies who bring about the demise of our social reputations by illicitly using their reproductive organs.

 

Aha, thought so. Social reputation at alleged stake. Nailed it on the head. Not.

 

Ngonge,

.

Sister, only your preceeding statements before this gave me the impression that you learned to forward your feelings before your reasons. But try to emphasize the problem at hand, rather than worrying the Campaign of Waris Dirie in which she vowed will eliminate the practise of Fircooni in her absense of the country!

[-Serenity-]

Here is a solution - effective parenting.

[Valenteenah.]

Are you going to kill the unborn for the crime of your daughter? what a justice,(In Christiany we have a God who kills his only son so he can forgive sinners, here we have somoene who wants to kill an innocent unborn for the crime of her deviant teen girl),

and if you are not capable instilling Islamic values in your daughter, wouldnt it be better to send heroff to kurtunwaarrey (ood ku soo gudid) to reduce her appetite?

after all, both choices are bad and unIslamic, but, the lesser evil is (in la gudo)? OK, I am not suggesting this as a practice,

but a its a better choice than coat hangers, or loss of faith and a teen running to the streets after an abortion to become " Cheap n Clean" street worker.

How many other kids have we lost to haggling over how to best face this issue, while kids are fighting hormones ( I think they get it from Kentucky Fried Chicken growth hormones) in an omnipresense of sexual advertisments all over the place?

 

From ancients such as the Pharoahs of Egypt, female circumsition was seen as a way of controlling female sexual drives, the europeans used to have chastity belts, the assumption was by taking away part of her sensuality, she would easily fend off advances of men, men were not seen as the culprits, just women. However, when it comes the trade offs, one must seriously consider the unthinkable ( at least for foreign raised geel Jirto)

that (Gudidda), at times may be preferable to serious aftermaths such as a runaway kid and abortion, just see your own mom, she is likely (waa la guday) and she brought you up the way you are,

thats is the worse case and i do not condone the practice when we have a working system, unfortunately, we dont, thus the need to prioritize options, to select the best of the worst of two choices.

You are mistaken, Nur. Female cirumcision is as unIslamic as abortion. To kill or to mutilate...neither is a feasible or a logical solution. It is staggeringly irresponsible to imply that circumcision is the cure.

 

The fundamental flaw in your argument/view/opinion is the fact that a very high percentage of Somali girls are ALREADY circumcised, even those born in the last two decades outside of Somalia, and yet that has not proved a deterrent to pre-marital sex OR abortions. I'm also unclear as to what circumcision, or lack thereof, has to do with runaways. How does it prevent young people from running away? What role if any does/would it play in family dynamics/politics (which is often behind why young people run away from their homes and families)?

 

 

As Somalis, I thought the ONE thing we had FINALLY come to understand was that female circumcision in no way prevents ANYONE from having sex. What it does is affect a woman's fertility, her menstrual cycle and her ability to give birth naturally and safely (do you have any idea how many Somali women undergo C-Section everyday because they cannot give birth naturally due to complications brought about by circumcision? ).

 

Simply put, circumcision will only cause the next generations of mothers to suffer from the same severe gyno-health problems as the previous generations. Promiscuity, abortions, runaways...all societal ills. They need societal solutions, not biological interference with women.

 

 

I cannot express just how dumbfounded I feel that somebody who comes across not just as intelligent but also highly knowledgable about matters of religion would pen down something so gravely and grossly misleading as your post.

 

In light of all we know about human behaviour and sexuality, in light of all the research out there, how can one still come to the conclusion that circumcision is the answer to young girls having abortions? I'm at a loss. How does one join the dots?

 

Subxaan Allah.