UAE Supreme Court: Wife-beating Not A Crime.

[NGONGE]

Juxa, Juxa you're missing the point of the topic.

 

If we are talking about domestic violence in total isolation then I would agree with you (even though you're a woman ). But this is about a ruling from a high court in an Islamic country. It should be of interest to you because of the involvement of the law, because you are female and because you are Muslim. Walk away ma jirto.

 

P.S.

Sayid,

Dee ma been ban sheegay? Maaddeey is calling them children and they prove his point by breaking up into angry individuals who threaten any man that dare touch them with death and hospitalisation yet let their own gender down by making excuses or brainwashing and what not.

 

As for your point, that is how I understand it too. Not sure why the court made a precedent of it though.

 

P.P.S

Juxa, I have another (and different) story from Saudi that may be right up your street (Car say walk away ).

[Chocolate and Honey]

Yes there are a lot of homogenous societies especially where religion is concerned no one challenges or questions arbitrary rules. And when I say homogenous I don't mean 100 % I mean 95 % and the other 5 % are seen as the 'others' and don't 'express ideas freely' for fear of further exclusion. I grew up in such a community where only black in white is seen just like you except that you are on the opposite side.

 

I disagree with you on this hun. Somalis look homogenous but they arent. Yes, religion is not questioned but certain religious aspects is not well received either. For instance, the issue of polygamy and wife beating is few and far between unless we are talking about specific regions.

 

 

Taleex

CH: Are you speaking from experience? I'm just a pragmatist and an observer who just likes analyzing human behavior in his habitat. I've never hurt women, emotionally perhaps, but for sure not physically and that will be a tradition I will have to honor many more years to come......

No, I am not speaking from experience. Trust me. Mideeda kale, you didnt speak like a pragmatist, you spoke like someone who has no issue with a slap every now and then. Analyzing human behavior doesnt warrant you to act like cultural relatavist. And I repeat the door is open because I believe in divorce if two people can't make it work. No need for violence.

 

Geeljire,

When it comes to violence, yes it is black and white for me. Horta, with this whole "dont-break-a bone-or-leave-a bruise-thing, whats the goal? Isnt the goal discipline? Isnt the goal for the wife to be afraid of her husband? Like children? Tell me what kind of a marriage is one where one partner is afraid of the other?

 

Juxa,

If you read my responses you would see that I said some are caught in a cycle.But getting caught up in a cyle isnt the same thing as accepting it as fate and blindly obliging to the looney sexist men out there.

 

Sayid,

I hate it when a whole group of people are treated like victims. As if they're bunch morons with little control over their lives. And yes, they should take kickboxing and beat the crap out of anyone who raises his hand

 

If we are talking about domestic violence in total isolation then I would agree with you (even though you're a woman ). But this is about a ruling from a high court in an Islamic country. It should be of interest to you because of the involvement of the law, because you are female and because you are Muslim. Walk away ma jirto.

 

P.S.

Sayid,

Dee ma been ban sheegay? Maaddeey is calling them children and they prove his point by breaking up into angry individuals who threaten any man that dare touch them with death and hospitalisation yet let their own gender down by making excuses or brainwashing and what not.

 

As for your point, that is how I understand it too. Not sure why the court made a precedent of it though.

 

P.P.S

Juxa, I have another (and different) story from Saudi that may be right up your street (Car say walk away ).

 

NG,

I dont get you. Meesha ma waxaad sugaysaa a full blown case by case with full saxiis hadiths argument?

I deliberately ignored Maadeey's comment because I have no interest in engaging someone like him.

The high court you speak of has no bearing on how I live my life and it should have no bearing on any free woman. I say free because the women they issued the ruling for arent free if they HAVE to be beaten as the law of the land states.

[NGONGE]

^^ What does "full blown case by case with full saxiis hadiths argument" mean?

 

Are there instances where you would condone or accept a beating?

[Chocolate and Honey]

Hade, what else are you looking for?

We said beating is good for neither the morale nor the health of the woman.if the goal is saving the marriage then, it obviously doesnt work. You agreed that beating isnt the answer.

[SayidSomal]

LOL@ngonge - maya, saxiib been ma aadan sheegin.

 

C&H - waxaagu waa ha lays tumo - until death or divorce do you part

 

p.s.

of all the people who responded to this - you can tell who is married and who isn't from their responses. who agrees with me??

 

p.p.s

on serious note - has anybody noticed the contradiction of judgement passed??

[NGONGE]

^^ War leave this topic and go read the one about the Saudi judge and the Jinni. Now that is fantastic.

 

 

C&H

The women that accept beatings do so because they believe it makes them better Muslims. Do you not agree and how could you make a judgment if you are avoiding the religious element of the discussion?

[Chocolate and Honey]

LOL! I know you'll hate my response. If a person honestly believes that ilaahy subxaanahu watacaalaa waxaa raali galiso to have someone beat you, then that person deserves the beating.

 

I'm not avoiding the religious element of it. The ayah in Nisa that all wadaado recite evidence specially the 'wadribuuhuna' part has be interpreted differently by different culima.

Also, the whole issue of beating goes against the rights Islam gave women when they didnt have any.

I don't want to get into different interpretation because I want to look at this issue from logical point of view.

How does getting beat up make you a better Muslim then? Do you get more ajar? Does it make you more submissive? Does it make you more righteous? Is it because you're saving the marriage which a desired thing in Islam? The answer is obviously NO. Even emotional abuse cause rift and resentment and the marriage eventually dissolves.

How then?

[SayidSomal]

Edit: ^^^there you go again with your "deserves to be beaten" remark again - i think you deserve to be married to a man from Burco - in order to fully appreciate and understand the word "deserved"

Ngonge tell C&H that story about the three women who decided to test their husbands - you know the ones from Hargaysa, Qardho and Burco

 

 

The women that accept beatings do so because they believe it

makes them better Muslims

.

where in hell - did you get that from?? lol- makes them better muslims ku laha - are they shiica or something - how does harming yourself or allowing to be harmed makes one a better muslim.

 

or you just want to beat up C&H??

[NGONGE]

^^ Keep making me editw warya:

"better muslims" because they are accepting the "rules" dee.

 

C&H,

You're all over the place, maybe a (cyber) slap is in order.

 

Essentially, what you are saying here is that you do not oppose the religious source the court has used (which probably is the ayah you quoted) but that you choose to follow the other interpretations of the said rule. At the same time, you say that those who accept any interpretations involving beatings deserve to be beaten! Does that mean you fully reject such interpretations regardless of their validity?

 

Jokes aside, I am in agreement with you when it comes to violence (even with a miswaak). However, I can't help ridicule your aggressive stance.

 

P.S.

Such court cases are always good news (as awful as they may seem now). They eventually lead to a better (or should it be bitter) understanding of the issues and clearer positions.

[Chocolate and Honey]

NG,

What are you talking about? Maybe a little slap upside the head will make this cyber discussion more friendly?

 

Let me try to make myself clear:

1. I reject that specific interpretation that the court used because I don't believe in its validity.

2. I can understand why the MEN might want to push for beating, but ANY woman who is satisfied with the court's ruling DESERVES to be beaten and she will be beaten.

3. I support those who are caught up in a cycle of abuse because they have no way out or can't get but I don't support or feel sorry for ANY women who believes getting beaten will make her a better wife or a better Muslim.

 

 

Zayid,

I see you want to start a war with reer Burco.Are you calling them wife beaters?

[NGONGE]

^^

 

1- How can you believe in its validity without being an expert on the matter?

 

2- No person is ever satisfied with a beating (is that your condition for the 'deserve' part?).

 

3- A person who believe a certain action will make them better Muslims are usually not in search of pity.

 

(But number one is the important one really).

 

P.S.

Reer Burco are like reer Qardho, beat the girl and her brothers will gang up on you.

[Chocolate and Honey]

1. I don't believe in its validity because there are other culimas who arrived at different conclusions than the avarage wife beater arrives. I don't need to be an expert; there are other learned people out there whom I agree with more.

2. If a person truly believes get beaten silly will make them a better Muslim, then I say let's make the suffering daily. Why not make it a hello conjuction?

 

NG,

Are you even reading what I'm writing? I don't pity them nor will I speak for the ones who are satisfied with the ruling.

[Ismalura]

Originally posted by chocolate & honey:

[QB] NG,

What are you talking about? Maybe a little slap upside the head will make this cyber discussion more friendly?

 

Let me try to make myself clear:

1. I reject that specific interpretation that the court used because I don't believe in its validity.

2. I can understand why the MEN might want to push for beating, but ANY woman who is satisfied with the court's ruling DESERVES to be beaten and she will be beaten.

3. I support those who are caught up in a cycle of abuse because they have no way out or can't get but I don't support or feel sorry for ANY women who believes getting beaten will make her a better wife or a better Muslim.

 

 

C & H. I agree with you on the first point. I don't agree with you on the third one but it is your choice who you feel sorry for or not. However I have a feeling that you (and Juxa) took a totally individualistic stand to this.... "My personality, intelligence, environment and education allow me to know my rights and protect my self and I don't care if others can't" kind of thing. I personally know a million and one ways to avoid and fight back in case of domestic violence and I am grateful for every part of me that allows for this but unfortunately many people don't know or don't have means to 'walk away'.

 

Finally when you say that someone 'deserves' a beating for any reason don't you have some thing in common with the wife beaters since they also think that she 'deserves' the beating. NO WOMAN and I repeat NO WOMAN deserves a beating and that is their God given right which neither you nor the wife beaters can take away from them.

[Ismalura]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

^^ War leave this topic and go read the one about the Saudi judge and the Jinni. Now that is fantastic.

 

 

C&H

The women that accept beatings do so because they believe it makes them better Muslims. Do you not agree and how could you make a judgment if you are avoiding the religious element of the discussion?

That is what I am trying to tell C&H who probably grew up in the west. I grew up in a refugee camp; a very traditional, judgemental and mostly illiterate society and I swear I have seen women who believe that by accepting this they will go to Janatul-Fardowsa.

 

On the other hand you said you are a sexist and 'don't like women's logic' so why are you against wife beating? for naxariis? If a man doesn't beat up his wife but sill believes she is of a less worth is he better than the wife beaters?

 

Seriously is there any evidence here that our logic is weaker than yours... ninba qumanahiisaa qoorta ugu jiraan maqli jiray.

[Chocolate and Honey]

Finally when you say that someone 'deserves' a beating for any reason don't you have some thing in common with the wife beaters since they also think that she 'deserves' the beating. NO WOMAN and I repeat NO WOMAN deserves a beating and that is their God given right which neither you nor the wife beaters can take away from them.

 

Ok. Let me get this correctly. It seems to me that you misunderstood what I wrote. I didnt say women who get beaten deserve the beating. There are two types of women(am I crazy or have I been making this distinction clear in all my posts? Nope I am not crazy; I have made it clear in EVERY single post):

Type I: The abused woman who for whatever reason(family history, financial circumstances, Legal issues such getting her children taken away if she leaves, fear of dying if she leaves, cultural pressure such as being shunned by the family, having no where to go etc)stays and is caught up in this cycle BUT knows deep down that she will get out some day.

Type II: F-ed up morons who refuse to use their God given brain and decided that WHATEVER the men at the Masjid, Church, Cult leader, Husband, Father... says is the truth and only TRUTH. Women who ACCEPT being beaten, humiliated, tossed around, cheated on, 'deciplined' as their husband's right. This type of woman I don't feel sorry for, not even a bit. AND they deserve EVERY misfortune that comes their way.

They're the same very women who support the enslavement, torture and beating of OTHER women because they put men on a pedastel and because they uphold and enforce the customs :eek: