UAE Supreme Court: Wife-beating Not A Crime.

[Ismalura]

Originally posted by chocolate & honey:

quote: On the issue of acceptance how can you choose when you don't know if they are other options?You can't reject something if you don't know better and if it is accepted by every one around you. To sum it up it is a "everyone I know lives like this and says that this is the right so this most be the only way" kind of thinking.

I know that you're playing the devil's advocate so to speak. But where in the world does such hemogenous thinking exist? Even in cults,opposing views exist though they might not get expressed freely. I doubt that there is a socity or a culture out there so secluded that that they are unawere of other options. Even within such society there has got to be some variations.

 

Taleexi,

The question is maxaa la ii idbin? Ninka ma asagaa i dhalay? So anigo qof weeyn ah oo aduunka meel ka marayo ima arkin? :rolleyes:

Yes there are a lot of homogenous societies especially where religion is concerned no one challenges or questions arbitrary rules. And when I say homogenous I don't mean 100 % I mean 95 % and the other 5 % are seen as the 'others' and don't 'express ideas freely' for fear of further exclusion. I grew up in such a community where only black in white is seen just like you except that you are on the opposite side.

[Taleexi]

CH: Are you speaking from experience? I'm just a pragmatist and an observer who just likes analyzing human behavior in his habitat. I've never hurt women, emotionally perhaps, but for sure not physically and that will be a tradition I will have to honor many more years to come...... Horta the door is open baadba nagu waashay, oo hanjabaadaada baanuba u dhiman gaarney, ee miyaanu albaabku cid kasta u furayn, all I'm saying is that a human union is a multidimensional business, and it is not as easy as you painted it, like the door is open

[Geel_jire]

C&H walaal I dont think it is as black/white as you make it out to be.

 

sometimes their are rulings,guidlines in the religion that might not conform to your personal tastes but substituting your personal preferences is not the solution.

 

on this issue, it is clear that harming your wife and children is not permisable in general, and if punishment/discipline is warranted the quran and the hadith of the prophet lay out clear guidlines.

 

there are multiple steps that come before that, for example do not share her bed, etc. and physical discipline as a last resort .. and in this last resort there are still rules to follow:

 

1. do not hit her/them so hard as to leave marks

2. dont hit her/them in the face.

 

In one of the hadith of the prophet P.B.U.H he said you are like sheperds and each one of you is responsible for his herd. the man/husband has a greater responisbility for his family on his shoulders.

 

in a perfect world it would never happen. but no man is like the prophet and no woman is like the wives of the prophet.

[Ismalura]

Originally posted by Taleexi:

CH: Be mind, all people aren't on equal footing in terms of analogical reasoning and analytical thinking. It is a fact that people make decisions about their lives based on information available to them at the time thus, you can't generalize the entire population....... To tune in in the same frequency.

 

Adiguse in yar oo aan dhib kuu geysanayn haddii lagu edbiyo maxaad ku diiday, unionkiina la badbaadiyo:)

Taleexi stop talking of this edbin or else computarka intaan kaga soo baxno aanu ku idbino.; You know how angry I am. Mida kale single mothers baa naga batay wa adiga leh would you rather have her beaten and bruised than single. Life is about choices and I have to choose between having a husband and been beaten up I would rather be single. I, however, know that I can take care of myself and my kids which unfortunately, is not the case for many people. It is sad that some women have to be in between a rock and a hard place.

[Somalina]

^Mansa, haddii aadan falkaa ku dhaqmin oo aadan aaminsanayn, dee maxaad difaaceysaa markaa?

Juxa and C&H waan ku raacsanahay fikradooda; labo qof oo waaweyn haddii aysan is fahmi karin irida wey u furantahay kii soconaayo, maxaa keeney in gacan la isku qaado? cadaw maa aduunka ka dhamaadey?

Hala kale leersado, maxaa la isku rifayaa when there are plenty of fish in the sea.

------

Dumarka abuse-ka lagula dhaqmoow waxaan idin oran lahaa, 'biyo iyo bleach u kululeysta ee is difaaca' haddii aadan awoodin inaad irrida u dhaqaqdo. Take back your dignity n womanhood and defend your right to exist on this earth until your last breath.

[Taleexi]

Waa hagaag mar haddiiba aad rabtid inaad computer-ka ka soo dhex baxdo si aad ii edbiso. Cafis iyo masaamax xagayga bal Illaahay amarkiis

[Taleexi]

Hayaay!, mar haddii NinaNC xaafada soo gashay aan ka sii jaqaafiyo Illaahay amarkiis.

[Ismalura]

Originally posted by Taleexi:

Waa hagaag mar haddiiba aad rabtid inaad computer-ka ka soo dhex baxdo si aad ii edbiso. Cafis iyo masaamax xagayga bal Illaahay amarkiis

Glad in aad cabsatay and saved me the trouble of travelling through the computer

[Som@li]

This is Maadeey's way of discipline.

 

Watch from 0:38s

[Prometheus]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

Many believe that GOD gave another humanbeing the RIGHT to beat them. Is it true, is it not? Well, the UAE Court says it is true (as long as it does not leave marks). If you were a lawyer trying to sell a counter argument, what would you say? (and no, insults will not do).

The UAE court, the sheepish wadaad, and the dyspeptic dunces are all wrong.

 

If one were marshaling a case against the violence-is-divine argument of the mullahs, one would be intellectually careless to dwell on intrinsic moral outrage, however justifiable, evoked by domestic violence. Arguments from ethics are powerful, but they are not sufficient; a substantive theological, linguistic, and rational case against physical discipline must be proffered. While I am loathe to engage in theological hooey of any sort , I think this is the field of choice for pretentious mullahs. One must confront them here, or else give up the prospect of reformation. The god-said-so trump-card of the mullahs must be challenged.

 

i) If the verse in Surah Nisa is an unambiguous sanction for domestic violence, it is curious that the prophet Muhammad decided never to follow it, or even counsel others to follow it.

 

ii) The malleability of the Arabic Language is useful. The verse in question can be reasonably given interpretations other than physical discipline and violence. Historically, rationalist Muslims (Mu'tazilites et al) have used linguistic tools to reconcile seemingly problematic verses (or hadiths) that were at odds with rudimentary human intuitions. One plausible interpretation for Idrebohonna is: set them free, let them go, sever your ties entirely (i.e. divorce), a rather early interpretation of a Mu'tazilite adopted by many modern Muslims. This interpretation is more rational and plausible as a third-step solution given that the first-step (talking with her, with relatives, with friends) and second-step (emotional detachment) have proven fruitless . Physical discipline and violence as an effective final resolution - despite the unsuccessful end-result of the first two steps - is highly implausible, if not insane.

 

iii) The age-old concept of scriptural inerrancy needs revisiting. One can still be a faithful muslim while remaining uncommitted to the erroneous nature and dubious provenance of some parts of scripture. In fact, some groups of muslims (Shi'ite et al) have long advanced this very idea - the possibility of errancy - as a solution to textual lacunae. This last option should receive serious consideration if all other hermeneutic tools do not furnish us with an ethical, humane, and common sense solution.

[NGONGE]

^^ That is really where it all starts and ends. Logic and common sense alone are not enough. At least on that point, you and Maaddeey are in agreement.

 

Originally posted by chocolate & honey:

The question is maxaa la ii idbin? Ninka ma asagaa i dhalay? So anigo qof weeyn ah oo aduunka meel ka marayo ima arkin? :rolleyes:

Err, the UAE ruling is on your side in this instance. If the man was your father he will not be allowed to beat you up.

[Juxa]

^^ stop twisting!

 

It is very demeaning qof weyn inaad gacanta uqaado.

 

I remember having a neighbour married to this lady with a young daughter from previous marriage. Every night he would beat her up for any silly reasons like his weyso water were not ready or his food was badly cooked, he would call her names and abuse her daughter and dariska will come out and stop him.

 

Then one night we heard the same qeylo but this time it was Him, he kept shouting yaa islaan ah iga qabta iga qabta........none of the deris came out.

 

In the morning we found out she beat him with GANBAR and he was wheeled to the hospital with broken limps. by 10am she called for xaajiyo qamsiin and took all the furniture and left.

 

What i am trying to say is, beat her enough, humiliate her enough and something very very dear to you might go missing.

 

wabillah towfiiq

 

ps: CH i agree with you but sometimes a woman gets caught in cyle of violence then cant go out. reason and common sense dariishada bey ka baxayaan

[NGONGE]

^^ I'm not the one telling heartbreaking stories here.

 

This topic should be of interest to you(professionally and personally, as a woman). I personally do not see the point of beating women up (for whatever reason) even though I would proudly declare that I am a confirmed sexist (don't like women's logic to be honest, never did). Yet, I can get over my prejudice here and read a woman's perspective on such a ruling (for it is they that would directly suffer from its consequences). All I see and have seen so far are stories about some guy that got beaten with a ganbar or an endless insistence that it is not "common sense". Yet, it is (the beating of women) clearly common sense in the Islamic world. It is why a court in the UAE, Saudi, Egypt or Somalia would happily issue such a ruling without fear of contradiction or retort.

 

It is an issue that goes much deeper than a kick or slap. It is one of authority, submission and control (authority of man, submission to god and the total control of women). My moral instincts tell me that there must be a very good, religious and reasonable reply to such a ruling but, on the other hand, it would defeat the whole purpose of equality for me to be the one forwarding that argument (nor is it my pleasure ). Therefore, my only interest in the subject revolves around the religious game of handbags that must and should ensue as a result of this ruling.

 

Bal wax la kaalaya instead of blaming your own gender of being brainwashed or "caught up in a cycle of violence". Taa waa sheeko gaalo. Muslinka (maca dumarkood) waxay idin leeyhiin dumarka in la karbaasho waa xalaal.

[SayidSomal]

^^

nin waalan baad tahay - certifiable!

 

My understanding of the Sharia with regards to "beating of the wife" as interpreted from sura that prescribes it and explained by the majority of the accepted islamic jurisprudence or as they are more commonly known as 'schools of thought' is that it is not to be done out of anger - i.e. reactionary. However, if and when one must go thru motions of it - after exhausting the preceding steps - one is allowed to use a Miswaq/Caday(toothbrush) to lightly tap the wife in a way that leaves no marks around the unexposed parts of the body - i.e. definitely not the face.

 

I am laughing as I type this - because if anything - this is to show the futility of embarking on such act in the first place. imagaine a woman standing around while her husband goes around "lightly tapping her body with toothbrush"

 

 

C&H - what is with your "they deserved it attitude" - isn't that condoning the adage "the might is right" and contrary to what you are arguing against??? ....oh i forget - you'll break their hand even if they raised let alone put it on you - must be down to all that gym going paying off. what is next - "any woman who doesn't go to the gym and learn some self defence classes - deserve to be beaten".

[Juxa]

Originally posted by NGONGE:

This topic should be of interest to you(professionally and personally, as a woman).

 

 

why should it be a topic of interest to me bal? on personal level i would normally say markuu ku dilayay ma gacmaha la eed? professionally i would say walk away now!

 

wife beating is not as light as you make it out to be, other factors are relevant and one must look at the woman's past, upbringing as well as her present situation.

 

religion bitka, taa i cant comment on due to lack of knowledge, onething i know for sure lakin is you lot (men) interpret diinta sidaad doontan. this is another 4 baa kuu banaan quraafaad. I am confident however god did not say beat her black and blue or demean and humiliate your wife.