In The Name Of Islam!?!?!---This is NOT RIGHT........

[Libaax-Sankataabte]

Lakkad, even the fundamentalist Hizbollah organization from Lebanon called the killing an ugly crime that flouted the tenets of Islam. But they called this act very suspicious.

 

Staged by the pentagon?

 

This is what Hizbollah said in a statement.

 

"The timing of this act that overshadowed the scandal over the abuse of Iraqi prisoners in occupation forces prisons is suspect timing that aims to serve the American administration and occupation forces in Iraq and present excuses and pretexts for their inhumane practices against Iraqi detainees."

 

"the executors' behavior was closer to "the Pentagon school -- the school of killing and occupation and crimes and torture and immoral practices that were exposed by the great scandal in occupation prisons."

 

 

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=5122687

[Modesty]

Lakkad, I agree with you Islam doesn't promote torture of this kind. However,I'm very skeptical about whether these men were actually Iraqis( did you see how big they were? iraqis are skinny!)Why would a muslim say Allahu Akbar when killing a person? It just doesn't make sense,and for that reason I refuse to believe that these were actually muslims who did this.

[- Femme -]

This is so disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If you cant stand the heat, get the f&*^ out of the kitchen. In this case Berg decided he can handle the heat, and unfortunaltely :confused: ) he got BURNED!!!! Dont think Im gonna spend sleepless nights over this......whats sicker is that people here are rooting, screaming, defending 1 man when 1000s are killed everyday in every friggin country. Did u forget viet, bosnia, palestine, somalia, albania, aganistan................

 

YOU guys must be pretty ****** if you are shocked by what happened to this guy. What did you honeslty think that they would have said to him "Hey thanks for coming to my country, but please dont trouble yourself further Ill just line up my mother, sister, wife, cousin for you to rape.......and Ill lick your feet and let you walk all over my back.......thank you, PLEASE COME AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes: :mad:

[Buubto]

Asalaamu Aleikum Wr Wb

checkmate

first of all allow me to correct ya, i am a sis not bro. thought my name stated my gender clearly.

but i think he is very lucky cuz in the day of judgement he is going to use those men as means of transpotation n he will be goin ta heaven n they will enjoy the kool breeze of hell

Subhaana laah I think u r wrong is not up to us to judge. But what I want to tell u is, whether u r killed wrongfully or not does not determine whether u go to jannah or paradise. Your deeds are the only thing that will determine whether u owned either jannah or hell. Our religion teaches us whoever fully believes “laa ilaha ila laah muxamadan rasuulu laah” & does not associate Allah with anybody, Will enter jannah. & that is the difference b/w the muslims & gaalos.

 

My point is a man who does not believe in Allah, how can u say he will enter jannah?

[NGONGE]

I’m really amazed and shocked at the ability of some people to debate and discuss matters on this forum!

 

“Firstly, don't say this guy was innocent, we don't know who he was and what he was doing there. Same as the case of the four "security guards" in Fallujah.”

Are we really going to argue over the basics here? INNOCENT! until proven guilty, my friend! Suspicion alone is not enough here; you need to provide evidence of his guilt.

 

 

“Lakkad and crew,

 

I suggest that all your sympathy be given to the Muslims, there just isn't enough to go around. Walaahi I'm so sick to death and tired of Muslims making such a bid deal out of such incidences when it happens all the time-the only difference is this time it wasn't a Muslim. Why don't you become just as outraged when your brothers, sisters, daughters, sons, mothers and fathers of Iraq, Palestine, Chechniya, Kashmir, China, India, and even closer to home Western Somalia are been slaughtered every single day? Is there blood not worthy of such outrage and disgust?”

Spare us the emotion, sister. Argue on the points on hand, right or wrong?

To accuse the original poster of having less sympathy for his fellow Muslims because he dared to question the actions of the brutal murderers and their relation to ISLAM is WEAK. Come up with a better argument and stop trying to claim the moral high ground with your “ why didn’t you shed a tear for Iraq rhetoric”. Had he expressed his disgust and anger at the treatment of Iraqis, he would be stating the OBVIOUS. I don’t see the point of that! Or are we to type thousands upon thousands of words of disgust and absolute anger to prove to people on here that we care for our Iraqi brothers and condemn the American occupation? I frankly find that line of argument very offensive.

 

 

Now, lets all take a deep breath; leave the anger out of this for a minute and ANSWER Lakkad’s question. Is the killing of innocents allowed and encouraged in Islam? Can any of you weeping and wailing guys answer this without accusing anyone of being less of a Muslim than you, and without resorting to conspiracy theories?

[OG Moti]

The man is dead... he took a risk and it didnt work... his death is just another death.. not something to debate about... thousands of ?Iraqis died ..children, women and men... women were raped.. houses were distroyed for no reason but they were upperhanded and they were considered second class citizens in their own country...

They said we are sorry, it is "collective damage" thousands been killed and all they say was collective damage.. and no media coverage for their death cause they dont make difference they were extra humans ... one man died all the media on him, his was visited, his background were mentioned in a day he turn to a hero... why?

simply because he makes a difference and his case determines American strategy in Iraq, sometimes it is not that he is important but his death changes a lot.. Iraqis are like ants they die it is ok we got planty of them .. they all useless. one American dies ooh we lost a Son and a hero.....for god sake Lakkad and NGNGO one question ..

What makes one Kaafir American's life worth a million muslims? ... i think it is Sad to kill any human but hey his death means nothing to us when a thousands of us die everyday and it means to them a victory.. guys to google.com search for pictures .. Iraqis killed in the war.. most Children and they were not killed by Saddam .. they will killed by a kaafir called American and British... open ur eyes .. jiljileeca naga daaya.. your brothers and sisters are getting killed like nothin... and i am not sad either for my brothers and sisters getting killed cause i know atleast they died Muslims.. and that means a lot to me... peace

[OG Moti]

It is me again.............

NGONGE do you really want an answer for Lakkad's question?

I am not a sheikh and I cant make a fatwa... but what I can tell you is .. I really dont know if it is Allowed or not allowed... my Muslim Logic tells me .. an eye for an eye.. is a fair justice.. they kill your people .. you kill theirs ... it is a fair deal, I will ask if this allowed.. Islam is a religion that promotes PEACE, but also tells u to protect yourself by any meaans... no die like a chicken and say i am promoting a peace.. then why dont you join Buddhism (thou buddhist are the most violant people i ever seen)... peace

[NGONGE]

Heh. I think there is no point in trying to debate this case, man. Well, at least not until people start to calm down and discuss things rationally. So far, it’s the same old argument of justifying all this by referring to the crimes the Americans committed and have been committing for years. The question still remains unanswered, is it “In the name of Islam?” :mad:

[Blessed]

Salaams people. Why do these threads end up in a war of words between Muslims? Come on folks, we shouldn’t be fighting about this. When we disagree with something Allah commands us to refer to the Quran and the Sunnah. Now the question is. Are the actions of these brothers justifiable under the shariciyah law? Do their actions imitate that of our Messenger (saw). Now these brothers argue that they carried out the killing of a civilian (not a soldier) in retaliation for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by US soldiers.

 

Retaliate, yes. However, is this in the manner of the Prophet (saw). There are numerous hadiths that show the etiquettes of jihad and how a Muslim deals with prisoners of war. This guy as far as we know isn’t even a prisoner of war, who was fighting with Iraqis but a civilian. That changes things.

This type of thing is not from our religion, so whether they call it Islamic or otherwise, it doesn’t matter. Like Honesita said, we know it’s wrong. So instead of being mad about it and hating on Arabs as a whole – speak out against the misrepresentation of Islam. Not to the Muslims but those people, who don’t know about Islam..this is a Golden opportunity for us to do something for this deen.. lets not waste it by pckering amongst each other

 

It is clear that these brothers are lacking wisdom in this department. However, it wouldn't kill us to empathies. The Iraqis are in a very desperate situation. People, are bound to act irrationally, wouldn’t you Lakkad? I mean, you started hating on all Arabs just by reading this article. I wonder how your reaction would be if people started killing, sodomising and raping your brothers and sister? I’m not justifying their actions but simply looking past my own thoughts on the matter… I thought this statement was interesting;

 

How can a free Muslim sleep well as he sees Islam slaughtered and its dignity bleeding, and the pictures of shame and the news of the devilish scorn of the people of Islam - men and women - in the prison of Abu Ghraib?" he said.

I agree with his sentiments. However, the methodology isn't correct. They can defend Muslims and Islam by fighting with the soldiers. But, copy cating America's sick strategies of dealing with the enemy - is wrong. Didn't they say imitation is the best form of flattery? By copy-cating such actions, they are falling into the hands of the propaganda spinners.

"It shows the true nature of the enemies of freedom," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan.

 

Didn’t waste a lot of time in using this to highlight the evils ways of Muslims. Great :mad:

 

 

"They have no regard for the lives of innocent men, women and children. We will pursue those who are responsible and bring them to justice."

Oh, PUHlease :rolleyes:

 

 

Washington vowed to find the killers.

You know what that means Nomads, one American dies. God knows how the American's will retaliate.... This is just the beginning..

 

May Allah have mercy on us….

[Jumatatu]

NGONGE

Can any of you weeping and wailing guys answer this without accusing anyone of being less of a Muslim than you, and without resorting to conspiracy theories?

There is no doubt that this killing is illegal in any form within the ethics of Islam . The argument whether it is justiied or not stirs the people from looking into the element which you, NGONGE, reject. The theory of conspiracy. Before we argue whether this is Islamic or non_Islamic, do we accept it was done by Islam and in the name of Islam. I for one, a big NO. May be the link posted by Libaax-Sankataabte can put light to the question.

[NGONGE]

Hello Jumatatu,

 

Hope you're having a nice day, man.

 

I see your point and agree with it. There is a possibility that the guy was a CIA agent, there is also a possibility that those who beheaded him were impostors who are not Muslim. But, that’s an argument for another thread. This one, was started by someone who asked if these acts were Islamic. What he got as a reply (from most people) is that the act was justifiable because of past crimes by the Americans, or that because this guy was American it makes him a legitimate target (therefore implying that it’s ok from an Islamic point of view to kill him). Others added the “conspiracy theory” issue as an after thought. I’m not discounting any of these theories, however looking at things as they stand, with the current explanation and evidence, I and various others are asking if this act was Islamic.

 

If others want to discuss things from a political point of view, I’m more than happy to go along with that. All we need is a bit of clarity when making our points so as we don’t’ mistake them for apathy, anger or pure drivel.

[Khayr]

Salaamz,

Just wanted so say that I'm loving the debates on this thread. This reminds of why I came to SOL in the first place, NOT to talk about Who likes WHO and Who wants to MEET WHO, but rather to discuss

pertinent/important issues that we come across our lives and how we relate to them and relate to the deen.

 

Rememeber: War is Propaganda!

 

Masha Allah! Keep up the discusion :cool:

[Intel]

i just saw the full video on the internet and mate its absolutely shockin :eek: :eek:

[Reality Check]

by rahima:

Lakkad and crew,

 

I suggest that all your sympathy be given to the Muslims, there just isn't enough to go around. Walaahi I'm so sick to death and tired of Muslims making such a bid deal out of such incidences when it happens all the time-the only difference is this time it wasn't a Muslim.

Show sympathy because they are muslims? Do you know how ridiculuous that sounds? lol....Would yuo show sympathy to a child molestor because he is muslim and did it in the name of God? The issue here is whether their methods of revenge and using God's name to justify their actions is right or wrong?

 

Every muslim does not have to get my sympathy because even muslims are capable of evil. There are muslim organizations that have the right intentions by utilize the wrong methods to get to their means. Should we support them then? or condemn them for their wrong actions? That is where the muslim community is lacking. We just don't stand up to the wrong that muslims do in the name of our religion. Therefore, these barbaric fools (who ever they are) will keep up our islamic fundamentalist image we see in the media on a daily basis, while we sit here and constantly complain about why o why the WORLD is against us.

 

Takbiir

[Rahima]

Spare us the emotion, sister. Argue on the points on hand, right or wrong?

I'm not in a position to say it is right or wrong for it is matter for the scholars to decide.

 

However even if we were blessed with enough knowledge to make such a judgement, it would be next to impossible considering all reportings are from proven liars.

 

Bottom line is, i just watched the full video on the net (as it is not been shown in its entirety here in OZ) and if the scholars were to have any qualms about the killing, it would definitely be with respect to the method as it contradicts a proven and established hadiths. On the other hand I'm not sure about the actual killing of the man considering that this is a battlefield and therefore the question still stands, what was he doing there? He knew that the Iraqis viewed the Americans as enemies, yet still went there.

 

Had he expressed his disgust and anger at the treatment of Iraqis, he would be stating the OBVIOUS

Like this isn't stating the obvious? There have always been casualties in wars, surely you must realise this and hence wouldn't it be just stating the obvious? Big whoop, I don't understand what all the commotion is about. It's like every time anything goes wrong, the Muslims somehow feel the need to prove themselves innocent. The generally accepted rule is innocent until proven guilty and we all know that a few people do not define Islam, so even if this was wrong, we have nothing to answer for. Walaahi it is so sad to see the honour of the Muslims diminish to such a depressing state.

 

To accuse the original poster of having less sympathy for his fellow Muslims because he dared to question the actions of the brutal murderers and their relation to ISLAM is WEAK

What's even weaker is to deliberately misrepresent someone's words. I don't believe that I attacked our brother's faith, rather I questioned his reaction. Don't try to stir the pot akhi, i would never participate in the wicked craft of character assassination, for Lakkad is my brother and thus deserves my respect. If however, it came out sounding otherwise (considering I was just arguing my point of view), then inshallah he will know it was not my intention.

 

I don’t see the point of that!

Indeed it is incredibly sad and disheartening that aside from everything else, you don't see the point in condemning the actions of these invaders yet conversely are in agreement with expressing such sentiments when the oh so holy blood of a kafir is spilt. Quiet often people state the obvious, I'm sure many of us are doing it here- we all know it is disgusting, but alas we feel this great sense of urgency to say it anyway. It's about time brother that you painted with the same stroke with every similar point.

 

Now, lets all take a deep breath; leave the anger out of this for a minute and ANSWER Lakkad’s question.

My problem with Lakkads post is not the question, but rather his anti-Arab sentiments as a result of this incident. Like someone already said, Rasuallah was Arab, not to mention there are countless Arabs who are good people. However as for the question who's qualified to answer it? I doubt any here, probably only Nur- and only then he could only go on hypotheticals considering no one really knows why he was there (and no, it is not a conspiracy theory, I hope the situation of the Asian missionaries is still fresh in your mind). There are so many fiqh issues to consider and it is not for a lame man to answer, in fact it would be a sin for people to answer without knowledge. We must say Allahu aclum till those who can do answer it- it may seem obvious but nonetheless we must ask the people of knowledge.

 

At the end of the day, even if the scholars deem this to be wrong, my sympathy will only be to the Muslims- sorry just not enough to go around considering how many Muslims receive worse fates at the hands of our enemies I'm sure you can understand why.

 

Devil's Advocate

 

Sister, it might help if you read the rest of my post, not just that paragraph. I think it was rather obvious that I was referring to the Muslims who are suffering across the globe from the evils of oppression. Therefore, your points of the molester etc wouldn't really apply here.