In The Name Of Islam!?!?!---This is NOT RIGHT........

[Reality Check]

Rahima,

 

I did read the rest of your post, but I only referred to that part.

 

And what does the suffering of muslims all over the globe have to do with this particular beheading? Condemning the beheading does not constitute me being insensitive to murders of innocent muslims. But then again, we were not discussing that, now were we?

[Rahima]

And what does the suffering of muslims all over the globe have to do with this particular beheading? Condemning the beheading does not constitute me being insensitive to murders of innocent muslims. But then again, we were not discussing that, now were we?

The poster (i was not referring to you) made the correlation, not I. He specified that he was anti-Arab now. I think that constitutes as a connection, don't you think ?

[Reality Check]

Originally posted by Rahima:

quote: And what does the suffering of muslims all over the globe have to do with this particular beheading? Condemning the beheading does not constitute me being insensitive to murders of innocent muslims. But then again, we were not discussing that, now were we?

The poster (i was not referring to you) made the correlation, not I. He specified that he was anti-Arab now. I think that constitutes as a connection, don't you think

?

He made no reference to the plight of the muslim victims, but rather reffered to his hate for arabs. Now, we all know that not all arabs are muslims, nor do arabs represent the majority of muslims. So I just dont see the correlation.

[Khayr]

Show sympathy because they are muslims? Do you know how ridiculuous that sounds?

SubhanAllah, then what you are impleying is that the Muslim is = to the Non-Muslim. Why if Allah favours the Believers over the disbelievers and forgives them for the Errors and Sins, then WHO ARE YOU to ridicule a Believer/Muslim when they sympathisize with other muslims and give them the benefit of the Doubt.

 

Would yuo show sympathy to a child molestor because he is muslim and did it in the name of God?

-Well what if that person is your Brother or Cousin or Mother? Would you show sympathy to them or Report them to the POLICE and have them locked Up?

 

The issue here is whether their methods of revenge and using God's name to justify their actions is right or wrong?

Is that really the ISSUE or is it how we

attach SENTIMENT to what is RIGHT in ISLAM. Meaning, if you like SOMETHING, then ISLAM should give room for it and if you find something DISGUSTING, HORRID, GRUESOME, Not to your Liking-then ISLAM doesn't SUPPORT IT, its HARAM!

 

Should we support them then? or condemn them for their wrong actions? That is where the muslim community is lacking. We just don't stand up to the wrong that muslims do in the name of our religion.

The Devil does speak Half Truths mixed with other things.

I agree with you on the point that we can Disagree with someone if their Actions and Methodology are erronous. However, its the way that some Sentimental Muslims go about expressing their disagreement, that I draw differences of opinion to. To speak OPENLY about an error that a Muslim does is not good ADAB. There is a hadith in which the Rasul (salallahu caliyhe wasilm) expresses this by informing the sahaba that for every bad thing that they see in a muslim, they should replace those thoughts with a 100 good thoughts about that muslim (Correct me if I didn't get the main theme of the Hadith). Point is, when WHO benefits from negative muslim publicity?

 

Is it ISLAM?The Somalis?You? or are all of you under the same Umbrella?

 

If you got a group of muslims at your work and you see them coming in late, would you tell your BOSS about them or speak to your muslim co-workers in private and inform them of their actions?

 

while we sit here and constantly complain about why o why the WORLD is against us.

 

Takbiir

If you were being Sarcastic about the 'TAKBIR' at the end of your post Opi/DA, then I don't Appreciate the Ridicule. However, if it is to support your cause, then you do play the role

of the Devil's Helper very well.

[Rahima]

He made no reference to the plight of the muslim victims, but rather reffered to his hate for arabs. Now, we all know that not all arabs are muslims, nor do arabs represent the majority of muslims. So I just dont see the correlation.

The point was and is, that for one to state that he/she is anti-Arab means that are also anti some of the Muslim victims of the world. Last I checked Iraqis were Arabs, as were Palestinians. So basically, the killing of this one man (even if wrong) is so crucial enough that one would oppose his fellow brethren (including the innocent victims).

 

Sister, we're just playing with words now , so with that I shall inshallah go off to the land of nod. My bed awaits me.

 

It was nice debating with both you and NGONGE as it is always good to have healthy debates.

 

w/salaam

[NGONGE]

Indeed it is incredibly sad and disheartening that aside from everything else, you don't see the point in condemning the actions of these invaders yet conversely are in agreement with expressing such sentiments when the oh so holy blood of a kafir is spilt. Quiet often people state the obvious, I'm sure many of us are doing it here- we all know it is disgusting, but alas we feel this great sense of urgency to say it anyway. It's about time brother that you painted with the same stroke with every similar point.

I don’t see the point in condemning the actions of these invaders in this THREAD. Not in other threads. I’m following the line the original poster has set when he started this thread. He asked if this was Islamicly correct. Most of the guys who replied, didn’t even say, “sorry brother, we don’t know, you better ask some scholars, etc”, they all jumped up with the replies of “ why do you cry for a kafir?” or “why do you care?”. None of these answered the question, did they? It was a simple straightforward question and, yes there was NO point in stating the obvious and talking about Iraqis being killed by Americans and all the conspiracy theories (that was not the purpose of the thread).

 

 

“What's even weaker is to deliberately misrepresent someone's words. I don't believe that I attacked our brother's faith, rather I questioned his reaction. Don't try to stir the pot akhi, i would never participate in the wicked craft of character assassination, for Lakkad is my brother and thus deserves my respect. If however, it came out sounding otherwise (considering I was just arguing my point of view), then inshallah he will know it was not my intention.”

Deliberately? Hey, I’m not here to stir trouble and get into pointless online fights, but that’s how it sounded to me. Plus, I wasn’t talking about Lakkad alone as my quote below demonstrates.

 

 

“Had he expressed his disgust and anger at the treatment of Iraqis, he would be stating the OBVIOUS. I don’t see the point of that! Or are we to type thousands upon thousands of words of disgust and absolute anger to prove to people on here that we care for our Iraqi brothers and condemn the American occupation? I frankly find that line of argument very offensive.”

 

 

Like I said earlier, as I understood it, the point of this thread was to find out what people thought of that beheading from an Islamic point of view. It did not talk about Iraqi deaths, torture or humiliation. You guys turned it into an Us & Them discussion when really there is no Us & Them in here (seeing that we’re all Muslims, I hope). That’s what I found offensive about your replies (not you alone Rahiima, so don’t think I’m picking on you, sister). If I misunderstood you then I apologise. No hard feelings.

[AYOUB]

Jumatatu

This issue whether it is or it is not justified is argumentative and will continue on and on. What it is beyond doubt is that it is a repercussion. However in the mist of all this is it not strange that everytime America's policy and motive is at its lowest ebb, and they could have not been worse than they were over the last weeks,and are faced by International condemnation led by their two houses. Somewhere some place Al-Qaeeda or an arab 'terrorist' group does something that takes the spotlight off from them. Ironically though it has been the case ever since the start on the war in Afghanistan.Which makes you wonder what is the link in here?

I don't know why everyone is assuming Muslims did it either. Don't you all remember how the US Generals staged the rescue of the girl who was in Hospital and showed pictures on prime TV just for propaganda purposes?

 

Americans and Israelis have killed their own leaders for political purposes and I wouldn't put anything past them.

 

 

Why was Masawi or whatever his name is wearing a mask if he wanted us to think he did it? Just because someone shouts "Allah Akbar" it doesn't mean they are MUSLIM. This sort of killings took place in Algeria many times and how many pro-Israel Arabs have caught working for the Americans?

 

 

Faruurow maxaa Berbera ku geeyey?

 

 

"FBI agents visited Berg's parents in West Chester on March 31 and told the family they were trying to confirm their son's identity. On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that Nick was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day Berg was released. He told his parents he hadn't been mistreated

 

A coalition spokesman on Wednesday said Berg was never under U.S. custody.

 

Berg had traveled to Iraq in search of telecommunications work, but when he arrived he was told there was no job for him.

 

He had intended to leave the country on March 30 by way of Royal Jordanian airlines. By the time he was released by the military, the security situation in Iraq had deteriorated.

 

"They could have released him a week earlier and that would have been the difference," Michael Berg said.

 

Nick Berg was a practicing Jew, his father said, and had religious garments with him in Iraq.

 

"I don't think he flaunted his Jewishness or that he hid it," said Michael Berg, who said he thought his captors knew his son's religion. "If there was any doubt that they were going to kill him that probably clinched it, I'm guessing."

web page

 

 

What is a civilian?

 

web page

[AYOUB]

..

[Reality Check]

Originally posted by Khayr:

[QB]

quote:

---

Show sympathy because they are muslims? Do you know how ridiculuous that sounds?

SubhanAllah, then what you are impleying is that the Muslim is = to the Non-Muslim. Why if Allah favours the Believers over the disbelievers and forgives them for the Errors and Sins, then

WHO ARE YOU

to ridicule a Believer/Muslim when they sympathisize with other muslims and give them the benefit of the Doubt. [qb]

Khayr, Who am I to ridicule a believer? I am a muslim who does not want to be represented in that way. I am an individual who is not afraid to point out a muslim brother/sister if he is doing something wrong (in the name of ISLAM at that). In this case, if the man was indeed a contractor (a civilian), and he was beheaded in the name of God, I will stand firmly against it. period. The "muslim" killers do not deserve my sympathy.

 

quote:

---

Would yuo show sympathy to a child molestor because he is muslim and did it in the name of God?

-Well what if that person is your Brother or Cousin or Mother? Would you show sympathy to them or Report them to the POLICE and have them locked Up?

I will have sympathy for the victim and yes, I would report them to the authorities.

 

quote:

---

The issue here is whether their methods of revenge and using God's name to justify their actions is right or wrong?

Is that really the ISSUE or is it how we

attach

SENTIMENT

to what is RIGHT in ISLAM. Meaning, if you like SOMETHING, then ISLAM should give room for it and if you find something DISGUSTING, HORRID, GRUESOME, Not to your Liking-then ISLAM doesn't SUPPORT IT, its HARAM!

Are you saying that Islam is pro-killing civilians? Last time I checked, that's not the rules of Islamic war, buddy.

 

 

To speak OPENLY about an error that a Muslim does is not good ADAB. There is a hadith in which the Rasul (salallahu caliyhe wasilm) expresses this by informing the sahaba that for every bad thing that they see in a muslim, they should replace those thoughts with a 100 good thoughts about that muslim (Correct me if I didn't get the main theme of the Hadith).

What do you mean? It is not adab to tell someone they are wrong? because they are muslims? even if they are giving the rest of the muslim community a bad rep? ok, gotcha! Again, with the use of that hadith, it is too general. I don't think it is meant to be applied to all aspects of life, including wrongful murder, dear.

 

Point is, when WHO benefits from negative muslim publicity?

We sure arent. But let al-qeida and like-organizations keep doing what they are doing because they sure are giving us such a good reputation.

[Mutakalim]

If the American was killed by a non-muslim and hence the event staged, good riddance. On the other hand, should Muslims be the executors then "jazaahum allahu khayran". Also, we need not worry of "negative publicity" as our reputation, as it were, is in the abyss...

 

With Salaaams

 

PK

[Mutakalim]

If the American was killed by a non-muslim and hence the event staged, good riddance. On the other hand, should Muslims be the executors then "jazaahum allahu khayran". Also, we need not worry of "negative publicity" as our reputation, as it were, is in the abyss...

 

With Salaaams

 

PK

[Jaabir]

Do you guys know the army intelligence officers who were conducting the interrogation => torture in Abu Graib prison were Israelis??

And does any of ya all recall when the Iraqi resistance bombed a prison in Bagdahad and killed 20 prisoners.??? many people thought the resistance was off course and they were targeting Sunni Iraqi’s.. the truth of the matter is, they were trying to rescue the imprisoned Iraqi’s who were being tortured..

 

i feel sad for the nomads who's prime source of news is Fox News Network..

[Modesty]

Devil I see where you're coming from, but we must know that there are many secret soldiers posed as contractors in Iraq.Also, war has no rules. To blame muslims is just too naive.

[Vanquish_V12]

I dont know if some1 already mentioned this but, there have been money other beheadings on tape n on the net. i've seen couple russian soldiers gettin their heads chopped off by the mujahidin, i've seen serbian head gettin chopped too. so why are american heads making a big fuss.

 

there are no civilians in Iraq, the iraqis have gave amble warning, and as the saying goes all is fair in love and war.

[Raxmah]

Few people that do horrendous acts dont define Islam -- still wether they are muslims or even arabs are unknown so no need to become anti-arab-there are many great arabs and most of all the most beloved to allah was an arab.

 

What they did does not represent Islam,our beleifs nor our values.

 

I feel sorry for the guy, he was warned not to go, but he did, so that was his fate.

 

If Bush can't make christianity look bad - few who have done things out of anger assuming they were muslims cant make Islam look bad -- at the end no matter what a muslim does Islam will pervail Inshallah.

 

Pls Pray for all the muslims around the world - may allah lessen their suufering.