Cloning and Minds

[Johnny B]

Do Clones Show that Immaterial Minds Exist?

 

A long-standing debate in philosophy and science is whether human beings are wholly material or whether there is some immaterial "spirit" which is responsible for our thoughts, opinions, desires, motives, etc. Is our mind simply the operation of our material brain, or is our mind an immaterial essence that is separate from the brain? Some think that cloning can provide clues.

 

In issue 23 of The Philosophers' Magazine, Michael LaBossier writes:

 

"Recent studies of cloned animals reveal that current cloning techniques produce animals that are as distinct in their personalities as animals produced by “natural†means of reproduction. Texas A&M, which has been on the forefront of animal cloning, has found that cloned pigs differ from each other in, among other things, their food preferences and degree of friendliness towards human beings.

 

Given that the clones are genetically the same and are typically raised in similar environments, it seems reasonable to consider the possibility of a non-physical factor that causes the difference in personality. After all, once the physical factors are accounted for, what would seem to remain would be e non-physical. In light of the history of philosophy, the most plausible candidate would be the mind."

 

So, the “most plausible candidate†for the cause of the differences in personalities of cloned animals is a “non-physical†mind... not because there is specific evidence pointing that way or because there is something about “non-physical mind†which actually explains this data, but because the concept has been popular in the history of philosophy ? I don´t agree with him.

 

What do you think?

 

 

Happy hollidays SOL.

[Castro]

^ What's the second "most plausible candidate" then? And why do you disagree?

[Johnny B]

There is so much wrong with the first "most plausible candidate" so i don´t know where to start.

If u´ve read LaBossier´s article , he mentions three physical explanations for the differences in cloned animal personalities 1:minor environmental differences, 2: wombs, and epigenetics, i don´t understand why he confines himself solely to these three options.

 

The basic flaw in the idea seems to be the assumption that: given the exact same starting conditions, any two physical systems will necessarily progress along the same path and to the same conclusion.

Thus it’s not true that identical genetic sequences will remain identical in their function.

the second "most plausible candidate" should be: it´s almost impossible to be sure when such a large, complex system is identical to another.

[Socod_badne]

Of course there is no such thing as 'mind.' Mind is what brains do. No brain, no mind. Since the brain is NOT inheritable, there is no reason to expect cloned individual will behave like its copy.

 

And as studies of the brain show, alteration of brain activity permanently (ie brain damage) or temporarly (ie drugs) changes the 'mind' or 'personality' of the individual.

[Castro]

^ Oh look, now we need Callypso to show up and we can sing YMCA.

 

So if there's no mind, then it's a "spirit" that does the trick, right? Since Allah breathes life into the living thing, then that must be the only variable if all else remains the same in cloning.

[Ibtisam]

^^thats cheating u are using ur religious Knowledge ; JB is trying to make sense without aid from religion; MR independent

[Socod_badne]

^^^Nope. No soul or spirit either in our earthly dimension. I believe in the existance of 'souls' but purely on FAITH since I can't prove it.

[Ibtisam]

i think most ppl will agree with that

[Johnny B]

Castro ,Ibtisam is here , we don´t have to wait Cally , i don´t know what does the trick !

But it ain´t breathing life into already living thing, nor do i know if we can conclude that all other things are constant, somehow that woulden´t be Ceteris paribus

 

Ibtisam , Just becouse Castro understands Arabic i envy him alot.

[Castro]

It is Ceteris Paribus saaxib. Genetically the two clones are identical. That means on the cellular level they're the same. So, if it's not mind or spirit, what is it then? Nurture? Growin up in the hood?

 

P.S. Learning Arabic (which I'm proud of) was a fluke. My parents could have taken us to Pakistan.

[Ibtisam]

i am sure there is something u can do that he can't kiddo

[Castro]

^ I can think of two.

[Johnny B]

Now , why do i feel intimidated?

 

What is it ? is the question , but are we done refuting his claims?