2010 World cup draw

[N.O.R.F]

OK. I'm forced to make a prediction.

 

England will go further than Brazil. How about that A&T?

[Abtigiis]

Originally posted by Norfsky:

England will go further than Brazil. How about that A&T?

Your prediction is based on what? Preference or hunch?

[NGONGE]

A&T,

You were criticising Nigeria because they had a bad qualifying campaign. So the assumption is that you judge teams by their qualifying results. Well, England finished top of their group and eliminated Croatia and Ukraine in the process. On the other hand, if we are judging teams by their history and previous results, then, like I said in my prediction, England lost the last three world cups in the knockout stages (all against South American teams). Therefore, I expect more of the same.

 

So, go on, tell me what are YOU basing your predictions on? (other than xaasidnimo of course).

[Abtigiis]

On current form. So, forget about last three world cups blah blah. you made good points about England's form under Capello. But I feel Croatia was an ageing side. I feel England is not yet really tested!!

 

As to Norf saying England will go further than Brazil, we know it can happen in football. That doesn't mean he has the foresight to know it. It is a blind guess. I can say North Korea will beat brazil. It can happen. But that is not how predictions are made. It is based on realistic assessments of the squad's strength and performance.

 

With England, I have to say I am not rational for I hate them. I take that charge of xaasidnimo here. But except Rooney, there is no player I fear from the England side. John Thierry is a piece of cake for most attckers. And the midfield is not that strong. Even Gerard is on the decline. So, I genuinely feel England is not that great.

[N.O.R.F]

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka:

quote:Originally posted by Norfsky:

England will go further than Brazil. How about that A&T?

Your prediction is based on what? Preference or hunch?

Look at England's side of the draw vs Brazil side of the draw. England, with a bit of luck, can EASILY make the semis. Brazil on the other hand have to contend with a tough group followed by possible game vs Spain followed possible games vs Italy and Holland to get to the final. All in all England have what is on paper an easier route. Beside Brazil are over-rated.

[Abtigiis]

Saaixb, Dunga has already come out and side his group is not 'the group of death'. I agree with him. Brazil will beat North Korea and Ivory coast (who expect Kalou and Yaya toure doesn't have that much of a talent despite the talk. Zokora, Eboue, Meite, Boka are average. Kolo Toure is disaster. Drogba is always bad when playing for the elephants.)

 

If brazil tops its group and Spain (as expected tops its group) they don't meet, although I would have loved them to meet. Italy was beaten 3-0 by brazil in the confed. (i am not saying that will happen again), but Italy doesn't look that menacing. On the otherhand, the likes of Argentina, Denmark, Germany, Ghana, Serbia can meet England if they advance from the group stage.

[General Duke]

I must agree with Norf in this one, England has a great chance in this world cup and with their manager being better than any in the tournament I think they will surprise everyone.

 

Brazil on the other hand are always the favorite and usually only win world cups against weaker opposition, every time they come against a team with a decent side they melt, remember 1998 & 2006 at the hands of Brazil or in the 80s at the hands of Argentina or Germany.

 

If they come against, Spain, Italy or Argentina they will melt again with their tails between their legs.

[Abtigiis]

Brazil defeated Holland and Italy when they won the 1994 World Cup.

 

They defeated England and Germany when they won the 2006 World cup.

 

They defeat Italy and England when they won the 1970 World Cup.

 

They lost to Argentina in 1990, to France in 1986 and 1998. Admittedly, France is their boggy side. but their record against other big sides is impeccable.

 

In the last four years, they beat Argentina three or four times scoring more than 3 goals in each occasion. They beat Italy 3-0 and Portugal 6-2 (in a Friendly). They have won two consecutive Copa America and the Confed cup without losing a match.

 

I am surprised why you are not telling this side of the story.

 

On the otherhand, Argentina lost to Brazil in 1982, Germany were beaten every time they played Brazil in the WorldCup, Italy only won ONCE in 1982.

 

So when did Germany beat Brazil in the Worldcup? And do you realize except France, none of those you referred as big teams beat Brazil twice in the World cup?

 

General Duke, i think you should keep us informed of the proceedings in Puntland which is what you are better at doing!

[General Duke]

They defeated England and Germany when they won the 2006 World cup.

When did Brazil win the 2006 world cup

 

 

In 1994 they won on penalties when Roberto Bagio missed his kick, and in all honesty the Italians were far better.

 

In 2002 they won in the final against a German side that was barely able to play.

 

In 1998 they were humiliated by Zidane, and in 2006 they were again unable to stop the legend.

 

Much like how they always found Maradona troubling.

 

This time round they won’t get that far, only laymen who know nothing about football belive Brazil are invincible, they play well but are not that amazing.

[Fabregas_Bruv]

Come on, Engeeerland.

[Abtigiis]

Duke,

 

I could have quoted your typo error below about Brazil beaten by Brazil, but I didn't because I knew you meant something else. Likewise, you could have understood it was a typo when I said 2006 instead of 2002 (Korea/Japan world cup). Laakiin waa jikaarkii mudug and I understand.

 

Originally posted by General Duke:

Brazil on the other hand are always the favorite and usually only win world cups against weaker opposition, every time they come against a team with a decent side they melt, remember 1998 & 2006 at the hands of

Brazil or in the 80s at the hands of Argentina or Germany.

Anyway, your statement about Brazil being beaten by Italy, Argentina and Germany is wrong. Here is some recent encounters with Italy and Argentina, while Brazil NEVER met Germany on the World cup, but for 2002 finals when they triumphed 2-0.

 

 

Post 1970 World Cup encounters:

 

Brazil Vs Argentina

 

1974: Brazil 2- Argentina 1

1978: Brazil 0- Argentina 0 (Host Argentina)

1982: Brazil 3- Argentina 1 (Maradona red-card)

1990: Brazil 0- Argentina 1 (Brazil dominated the match fully but lost)

 

Against Italy

 

1970: Brazil 4- Italy 1

1978: Brazil 2- Italy 1

1982: Brazil 2- Italy 3

1994: Brazil 4- Italy 3 (penalties)

 

Against Germany

 

They only met anything with a name Germany in 1974 but that was a different Germany. It was the DDR (East Germany) which they beat 1-0; they beat Germany in 2002 2-0.

 

Against Holland

 

1974: lost 2-0

1994: beat 3-2

1998: beat Holland on penalties after 1-1 draw

 

Against England,

 

beat them 1-0 in 1970 and 2-1 in 2002.

 

On the other hand, as I said earlier France beat them 1986, 1998 and 2006 ( and beat them convincingle both in 1998 and 2006).

 

So, what are you talking about when you say they are not good against big teams in the World Cup.

 

The record is:

 

2-1 against Argentina

3-1 against Italy

2-0 against England

2-1 against Holland

2-0 against two different Germany's

 

And 3-0 against France (since 1970) in the World cup.

 

So, what are your records to say they wiggle against big teams, except France.

 

Edit:-

 

If we go into the business of qualifyinf wins and losses and how it happened, we can also state that:

 

- in 1982: Italians counter-attacked but were thought a football lesson by Socrates, Zico, Falcao etc

 

- In 1986, Zico missed a crucial last minutes Penalty against France

 

- In 1990, Argentina played as if they were Ethiopia playing Morocco, and barely managed one shot which turned into a goal

 

Maradona never troubled Brazil for the record. He lost against them in 1982, and won in 1990 (but barely touched the ball save for one moment of magic).

 

- In 2006 brazil was pathetic throughout and were lucky to win any game. Largely because of the choices of the coach who kept Ronaldo even when it was clear he cannot move.

[Abtigiis]

You don't disregard a team with the following record in the World Cup.

 

Most World Cup appearances

19, Brazil (only country to appear in every World Cup)

 

Most championships

5, Brazil

 

Most appearances in a World Cup final

7, Brazil and Germany

 

Most matches played

92, Germany and Brazil

 

Most wins

64, Brazil

 

Most goals scored

201, Brazil

 

[edit] In one tournament

Most wins

[3] 7, Brazil, 2002

 

[edit] Streaks

Most consecutive championships

2, Italy (1934–1938) and Brazil (1958–1962).

 

Most consecutive final matches

3, Germany (1982–1990) and Brazil (1994–2002).

 

Most consecutive finals tournaments

19, Brazil (1930–2010).

 

Most consecutive wins

11, Brazil, from 2-1 Turkey (2002) to 3-0 Ghana (2006).

 

Most consecutive matches without a loss

13, Brazil, from 3-0 Austria (1958) to 2-0 Bulgaria (1966).

 

Most consecutive matches scoring at least one goal

18, Brazil (1930–1958) and Germany (1934–1958).

 

Most consecutive matches scoring at least three / four goals

4, Uruguay (1930–1950) and Hungary (1954) (four goals); also Portugal (1966), Germany (1970), Brazil (1970),

 

Most consecutive matches scoring at least six / eight goals

2, Hungary (1954) (eight goals); also Brazil (1950) (six goals)

[N.O.R.F]

Brazil do well when they have a focal point. This is when they usually win or come close. This time however there is no focal point with Kaka the only outstanding player in the squad where previously they had Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo all in one team.

 

Luis Fabiano is their star striker lol

 

Duke, we agree on something then lol

[Abtigiis]

Norf,

 

I bet Luis Fabiano will not be the main striker come 2010 World Cup. The speedy Nilmar, Robinho and Alexander Pato of Milan are ready. Tell me if any team has a better attack force if these guys start.

 

Especially when you have other attacking midfielders such as Kaka, Marcello and Ramires. And I hope Diego of Juventus will join.

 

Defensive midfielders are strong too. The only weak link is Gilberto Silva.

 

But, crucially what I really like about the current Brazil side is the coach's mentality. He has changed the way they used to play which was vey pleasing but not rewarding in terms of result. They are more of a team now than when they relied on whether Ronaldo is on top form or not. They are good in set-pieces and adopted European mentality of trying to maximise benefits from corners. Their defence is very good.

 

And they have the best goal keeper in the World in Julio Cesare.

 

BTW, they had all of the R's when they were so poor in 2006; and many agree they were equally poor in 2002 when they won. This time, they are a better side. It is not by fluke they have beaten Argentina 4 times with scores of 3-1, 3-0, 4-1, and somthing like that under Dunga.

 

The only worry is they struggle to penetrate when other teams pack their defence. In the England game, you have seen Dunga was trying to diversify their approach (by not only relying on balls from crosses of the left and right backs) but by using them to chip the ball behind defence lines from the center. That is how the goal and the penalty come about.

 

This is a major breakthrough. It means if Brazil can use crosses, chip the balls behind defence lines where speedy Nilamr can chase, use quick through balls with Kaka anchoring, they will have a lot of opportunities to open up opponents. The midfield and defence are very good.

 

Brazil are no more attractive, but they don't need to be. Let Spain entertain us for the coming 20 years (trophy-less of course). They will finally learn Iniesta and Xavi's ping-pong in the middle is not going to win them cups. It is good to watch though.

[BOB]

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tolka:

Dear BOB,

 

Which theory says Ivory Coast should beat Brazil? I think they have good players but not with the quality of brazillans.

What quality does Brazil have other than ONE certain Kaka whose greatest armory is to run with the ball and beat you with pace rather than with flair and artistry? I don't see any quality in that team because they're as predictable as they come.

 

Dunga saying Brazil aren't in the group of death is plain LIE and he knows it too and if you want to fall for it then be my guest because I wouldn't ask a Donkey an opinion....by the way that's his nickname in Brazil.

 

 

Kaka can be easily man marked because the guy is not Ronaldinho who will beat a dozen of players without even touching the ball...Kaka heavily relies on his pace...Ditmar Hamman marked him out of the game easily in THAT Final where he was running the show in the first half and we all know what happened next.

 

 

Luis Fabiano is a good striker but can you honestly see him winning the world cup for Brazil like a certain Romario did in 94 or Ronaldo in 02?

 

 

Dunga destroyed the soul of Brazil by having so much partisans rather than Artists which is why I don't think they will even make it to the semis because just about every team in the world has that so where's the elment of surprise (Brazil ALWAYS had that in them)in that?

 

 

PS. I'm sorry for Bafana...Eish

 

 

Peace, Love & Unity.