Jacpher Posted February 8, 2006 That was hilarious. “That piss was digital†“Listen lady, the burden of proof is on the state, on the state. You’ve got to prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt whether not this man is a pisser.†Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xiinfaniin Posted February 8, 2006 Katrine, the alleged victim also deserves her day in a court, and it goes without saying that we all feel her pain, and hope that justice is served on her behalf. Fortunately the alleged crime has happened (not in a lawless jungles of our dark continent, mind you) in a region that prides it self upholding the rule of law. For that she will at least get her case prosecuted and not forgotten. If indeed the old man has committed this crime as alleged, then let him pay the prize of probably spending the rest of his life in prison. If few clannish people showed up for his support I personally think that will have a little impact on this case, if any at all. When the bush comes to shove it is the evidence that matters and not if his clan supported him or not. But I certainly understand the point you, Castro and others are making. Clan runs deep in our blood. It striped our dignity from us, and made us scattered around the globe. Addressing it and its adverse effects on our society is fine with me, but it seems a blurring of sort when one uses it to strengthen an argument. I also understand that the issue of rape is taboo in our culture. Who ever has the courage to come out and bravely seek justice deserves our support, I concur. But it needs not be on the expense of the accused, I insist. That balance needs to be kept. Otherwise we risk causing more damage while trying to remedy one. I still believe the innocence of Sangub, and I whole heartedly support the right of the victim to bring a claim, and seek justice. Where would that but me good Castro, I ask ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Castro Posted February 8, 2006 ^ That puts you on the fence saaxib. Not a very comfortable place for an esteemed nomad such as yourself. And as you may have gathered, my support, based solely on the alleged confession, is fully behind the victim (the accuser). Ducaqabe: I'm glad you enjoyed the skit saaxib. What do you suppose, ninyahow, old man Chappelle was trying to say in this skit? Was he: 1) saying that blacks will support blacks even if there's irrefutable evidence to the contrary? (replace black with clan, if you will) 2) whites have a justice system unfair to blacks and that blacks should stick together? 3) knowing or admiring the celebrity (for whatever reason) might influence our perception of what is real and damning? Tell me saaxib. Could you see some similarities between that R. Kelly skit and the Sangub case? The fact that both accused are black and famous is merely a matter of coincidence here, obviously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katrina Posted February 8, 2006 Castro, on the off chance your asking (the not so deep) me here’s my two cents. Everything close to home usually blurs one's judgment and sense of justice. I can't speak for others but I'm grateful for the household I grew up in. My parents (especially my dad) never discussed qabiil in the house. I must have been in my late teens before I realized what qabiil I was. He set the tone of the house and that included gossipy guests and relatives. He was an authoritarian who used Islam and Soomalinimo as references and examples. I don't know if it's a character trait or my upbringing but I don't give a rat's @ss if the person using qabiil as a justification for discrimination is my uncle (which I've seen) or relative. I rely on my sense of wrong and right to steer me in the right direction. I must admit Castro coming from a home free of tribal affiliations and moving to the west was a challenge to my somalinimo and integrity. I quickly learned how deeply qabiil runs in ppl's veins. The saddest thing was it came in all sizes and shapes. Have all the experiences of either being discriminated and/or watching others being discriminated by my relatives or friends taken a toll on me? Hell yes! I'm more cynical and weary of all Somalis and their intentions. Back to your question, how would I react to it coming from those who share my genes? Hurt would be my first reaction but I'm not capable of turning on/off my sense of justice and integrity like a faucet. Most likely would try and excuse/justify their behavior due to other factors coz I love them but eventually that annoying thing called a conscious would break through my bubble. I would support them if they truly owned up to their errors and made an effort to change. To conclude you might be asking the wrong person for I have low tolerance for mean, spiteful and qabiilist behavior even if it was my parents. It's a disease that has almost sucked me in several times due to hurt i.e. the whole if you can't beat them join them attitude. Alhamdullahi, thanks to Allah, an innate sense of right/wrong and knowing two wrongs don't make a right has saved me many a times. BOY let me do my homework!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J.Lee Posted February 8, 2006 Had any of you guys heard her side of the story or even knew her, I'm quite sure many of your opinions, as well as your outlook regarding this case would change. Mine certainly changed but just out of morbid curiosity what if it turns out that she lied or that this whole incident was but a plot to assassinate the character of a :rolleyes: nationally recognized hero? Runtii, I applaud her for having the cojonas to do what she did when many in her situation would not do so, laakiinse I can't help but fear that the outcome of this trial would be a deciding factor when ever, in the future, a Somali girl accuses another of molestation; it may even hinder many from taking a stand. B.T.W Still waters run deep, waa run laakiinse the idea that this is about some clan-vendetta is pure hogwash. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Castro Posted February 8, 2006 ^ Not unless the officer is from clan Y. But seriously, the outcome of the case will either reinforce the clannism of some (if he's found not guilty) or make life difficult for potential accusers as you mentioned. It may really be a lose-lose situation. Katrina, that was inspiring. Unfortunately, some of us grew up in households (not me ... well kinda) with a parent hating the entire southern (or northern or eastern) part of the country. Imagine if someone was given the credit they deserve (be it education, good manners and what have you) then the conversation ending with "alas, he's of tribe X and we all know they're good for nothing pricks." It's terrible. As a small child, you wonder what's so bad about clan X. Even worse, you have much difficulty telling who's of clan X and who's not. P.S. For the longest time I thought northerner Somalis were more clannist (infinitely more) than the southerners. I don't think that anymore. Not since 1990. P.P.S. Originally posted by Jimca Lee: just out of morbid curiosity what if it turns out that she lied or that this whole incident was but a plot to assassinate the character of a :rolleyes: nationally recognized hero? Then the man confesses (allegedly) for something he didn't do? Yeah, I can see that happening to any of us. War atheer even if I was guilty of something and I'm confronted by a cop, I'd still deny it until they show me a video tape (like that Chappelle skit). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xiinfaniin Posted February 8, 2006 Saaxiib, mine is a just position to take, and a dispassionate summation of the facts that are available to us, I say . Yours, though little baised, is not bad either . G'Nite all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Castro Posted February 8, 2006 ^ I wanna bring the man down, see. Yes I do sound biased, saaxib. That's ok. We're all biased. I'm biased against clans though and Sangub is just a tool for me, if you've been paying attention. The accused could have been anyone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katrina Posted February 8, 2006 ^I can only imagine how growing up believing clan X, Y or Z are so and so day in and out. When I know as an adult I (or a few honest & God fearing friends) have to occasionally stop myself from making assumptions because of the persons qabiil. I can not lie I'm guilty of joking about so and so being like that coz of his/her qabiil and after awhile I really believe it!! Then I go about applying it to all other faraxs and halimos from that qabiil like its a fact...talk about susceptiblity?! Lee, I guess all that you mentioned will always arise when such a personal and often hard to prove issue is at stake. I think of it in this way...islam requires 4 witnesses to prove infidility but in culture it's usually the strongest that prevails. This will be his word against hers and yes I understand you fear that the outcome will impacts the future victims. The whole 'boy calling wolf' too many times. Yet, I don't fear that at all. I believe each alleged victim should recieve the same caliber of respect as the accuser until proven otherwise...Allah knows best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacpher Posted February 8, 2006 No doubt Chappelle was certainly making a point in the skit, possibly all the ones you listed but I would think it’s merely an entertainment and not necessary a reflection of black perception in the justice system. American justice system is far from ideal so everyone is afraid his or her loved one could be charged and convicted of a crime they never committed. The reality is that the system can be manipulated to satisfy the end result of any case unless the defendant has the means to challenge the court. Unfortunately, minorities don’t have what it takes to get a fair trial; I mean one that does not rush to convict the poor. That could the ultimate message Dave was portraying. You could see some similarities between the two but they’re not comparable. Though I don’t know much about R. Kelly’s case but one can argue that his supporters probably felt a plot to set him up and a target of some sort, given the nature of show business. Please forgive me, as I know nothing about R. Kelly’s case. On the other hand, Sangub’s case involves no fame or money whatsoever. I see no reason why someone would build a rape case based on lies. It happens but I doubt if that’s the case. I was told there had been a Somali lady in Ohio who accused her husband of terrorism but authorities later found out it was out of jealousy. I personally think the qabiil thing is blown out of proportion. Qabiil does not feed your kids nor does it pay your mortgage. Somali in the diasporas know very well. How many attend tribal meeting on the weekends and extend a financial support to the warlords? I would assume it to be a small number. I’m getting the impression we’re making progress. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Castro Posted February 8, 2006 ^ Saaxib waad ducaysantahay walee. Those were some good points worth pondering. Speaking of weekend clan fundraisers, I was thinking the other day what all these "universities" springing up in every region meant. It's not like you hear of any new high schools being built in Somalia. And how could anyone get to university without first receiving some prior formal education? It then occured to me that these fundraisers may just be new ways for clan masters to raise funds. Who wouldn't want to support a new university in their own back yard? Think about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caano Geel Posted February 8, 2006 ^awoowe lol@universities, i know thats what i was thinking. wrt. to the subject, reactionary would be too restritive to describe some of th views i've read Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Castro Posted February 8, 2006 Reactionary? Whatever do you mean? If someone came up to me and said we're building a highschool, I'd be more willing to donate to that than, say, a world-class university or some such nonsense. What does a country with unmentionable illiteracy rates need of a university? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caano Geel Posted February 8, 2006 ^ you know exactly what i mean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar Posted February 8, 2006 War dadkaan Sangub ayaa lagu sixray. No wonder the other thread was "parked" in the office section to thaw the nerves. [Rowda, that thread wasn't deleted.] Dad qaarkood meel baa gubaneyso because Sangub magaciis ayeeba maqli la yihiin. Sangub waa lasoo eedeeye, wax xukumay ma jiro. Hadee "eed" iyo "xukun" maxkamadeed iskugu kiin qaldameen, idinka waaye. Sangub waa abwaan Soomaaliyeed, waa odey Soomaaliyeed. Waxaan la sheegaayo dhaqan Soomaaliyeed ma'aha, hadee jirtana maxkamadaha u daaya [xataa maxkamada gaalo ha ahaatee]. Yaala deg degin, yaala dambaabin, awalba waa idiin sheegay. Sheydaanka buuloowga iska naara. Anyway, those who are alleging people come in defense of Sangub because of qabiil, read below. _________________ Axad, Janaayo 15, 2006 (HOL): Dhawaan waxaa soo shaac baxay warar ay qoreen saxaafadda gudaha iyo Dibadda, kuwaasi oo sheegayay in Abwaanka weyn ee Soomaaliyeed Maxamuud C/llaahi Ciise Sangub uu ku xadgudbay gabar Soomaaliyeed, taasi oo la sheegay in uu kula kacay falal ka dhan bani'aadannimada. Haddaba Fannaaniinta Soomaaliyeed ee ku kala nool gudaha dalka iyo dibaddiisa ayaa qoraal ay soo saareen oo ay ku sheegayeen in Abwaanka laga abuuranayo, sharaftiisana wax loo dhimayo waxaa la soo gaareen HOL, wuxuuna qoraalkaasi oo ay ku saxiixnaayeen inta badan Fannaaniinta Soomaaliyeed uu u qornaa qaabkan. "Haddii aan nahay fanaaniita Soomaliyeed oo ku kala nool aduunka afartiisa gees waxaanu ka xunahay gafka weyn oo loo geestay abwaanka weyn ee Soomaaliyeed Maxamuud Cabdullaahi Ciise Sangub." Fanaaniinta ku saxiixan Qoraalkan Shamis Abuukar Gaduudoow Saalax Qaasin Naaji Saada Cali Warsame Hiba Max'ed Hudoon Max'ed Ismaaciil Xudeydi Cabdi Aadan Qeys Sheekh Abuukar Max'ed Max'uud Buse Sahra Axmed Jaamac Max'ed Saleebaan Tubeec Binti Cumar Gacal Caasho Cabdoow Saleebaan Faadumo Qaasin Hilowle Seynab Xaaji Cali [baxsan] Cali Max'ed [Cali Ganey] Salaad Max'ed Shardi [Darbi] Qamar Cabdillaahi Xarawo Nimca Yaasiin Caraale C/kariin Jiir Feynuus Sheekh Daahir Cabdi Dhuux Yuusuf Kinsi Xaaji Aadan Mustafe Kiika Khadiijo Max'uud [Qalanjo] Max'ed Xasan Baroow Khadiija Foodeey Nuur Max'ed Yuusuf Cabdi Khadra DAahir Cige Saciid Max'ed Xarawo Caasha Wilisiqo Aweys Goobe Seynab Cige Max'ed C/qaadir Cismaan Calasoow Cabdi Xasan Dige Xaliimo Caalin Max'ed Axmed Kuluc Max'ed Ibraahim Hadraawi Daa'uud Cali Masxaf Ruumi Max'ed Naaji C/llaahi Cabdi Sabriye Maki Xaaji Banaadir Max'ed Aaden Shamuuri Amaara Cali Shoobaro Siteey Manoogto Shimaali Axmed Shimaali Marwo Cabdi Axmed Shariif [Killer] C/nuur Alaale Sahra Abuukar Cabdi [sahro Dawo] Axmed Saleebaan Bide C/laahi Shariif Baastoow Axmed Naaji Sacad Khaliif Axmed Cilmi Sayid Khaliifa Seynab Labadhagax Khadiija Ceerigaabo Max'ed Axmed Qoomaal FEysal Cumar Mushteek C/jibaar Khaliiji Sureer Axmed Faarax Xasan Aadan Samatar Saafi Ducaale Cali Deeqa Axmed Muuse Max'ed Cabdiqaadir Jubba Boon Xirsi Bowdogaab Axmed Saalax Qaasin Max'ed Macloow nuur Khadiija C/laahi [Daleys] Axmadeey Dhakane Faadumo Haldhaa Xabiibo Xasan Tooxoow Faadumo Cali [Nakruuma] Cismaan Buulo C/xakiin Farayare Faadumo C/laahi [Maandeeq] Shariif Jeeg Cali Cabdulle Guure Fartuun Birimo Xareedo Ismaaciil Duniya Cadar Axmed Kaahin Axmed Cali Dararamle Xasan Cujeeri C/raxmaan [Awkoombe] Shankaroon Axmed Sagal Cabdi Tahliil Warsame Sheekh Cabdi Shamso Bashiir Xasan Axmed Cali Cigaal C/raxmaan [Jaajuumoow] Xasan Shariif Faadumo Axmed Luul Jeylaani Xabiib Sharaabi Max'uud Cabdala Jeeri Kaaha Shide Aadan C/laahi Aamiir [Awkuuku] Cibaado Axmed C/nuur Jaas Faadumo Shaxshaxleey Mustafa Sheekh Cilmi C/risaaq Kuukaay Max'uud Cumar Yare Barre Max'ed Fiidoow Cali Sugule C/risaaq Gaadaco C/laahi [boqol] Max'ed Xasan [Lafoole] C/laahi Diiriye Sooraan Max'ed Karaama Siidi Saciid Xuseen Cabdi Baadil Ibraahin Saciid Khaliif Cali Xaynoosh Sanqoole [King] Khaalid Cabdulle Yuusuf Hanuuniye Aweys Qamiis Cabdala [Mabuuse] Cabdi Shire Jooqle C/salaan [badacas] Maryan Mursal Ciise Kaltuun Sheekh Ibraahin Max'ed Aadan Dacar Cabdi [Janan] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
